bigboss
Moderator
Bear in mind that you'll need an AVR much better than the Denon X1200W to get the best out of these speakers.ellisdj said:
Agreed this will put you on a different upgrade path I bet to what is in your mind.
MK have a range they are not all uber expensive / demanding.
XTZ are super bang for the buck speakers and subs a lot of people like them.
Or of course if you want to hear a real system you could always go to BB house.
I would say come here but I don't have immersive audio
MK have a range they are not all uber expensive / demanding.
XTZ are super bang for the buck speakers and subs a lot of people like them.
Or of course if you want to hear a real system you could always go to BB house.
I would say come here but I don't have immersive audio
Nugget
This is the contact email for Rich at Simply Cinema.
I went to his recently for an atmos and auro demo. Auro is cracking he is a top bloke.
He sells MK and a few others like Anthem, paradigm, lyngdorf Steinway etc.
He can do full installs for people as well.
richard@seriouslycinema.co.uk
This is the contact email for Rich at Simply Cinema.
I went to his recently for an atmos and auro demo. Auro is cracking he is a top bloke.
He sells MK and a few others like Anthem, paradigm, lyngdorf Steinway etc.
He can do full installs for people as well.
richard@seriouslycinema.co.uk
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
Nugget2014, how much money can you spend on a new receiver? If you get the very best receiver that you can just now, you can add front wide / front height / rear surround / Atmos loudspeakers later. But it would be a shame to get a new receiver that might limit your loudspeaker options later.
Son_of_SJ said:
Agree whole heartedly.
Shame to spend 500, 1000 quid on a new receiver now, only to have to spend the same again or more, later, to add the extra channels. Spend the money on the receiver now, add the speakers later.
I would look at some of the 9.2 or 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 or however you like to "slice'n'dice" the 9 channel mix that, like the Yamaha RX-A3050, need an extra power amp (or two, or three) to make use of the built-in 11 channel decoders, and which only have 9 power amp channels. A lot cheaper than full-on 11 channel receivers right now.
Depending on your room size you may find 9 channels (7 plus 2 overheads) is enough anyway. IMHO you probably need some front-to-back distance between the overheads to feel the effectiveness of 4 rather than 2 overheads anyway. Mine are at about 5 feet in from each end of a 19 foot long media room, i.e a 9 or 10 foot gap front-to-back between them) and I'm not sure I will get the full effect. Not saying you need a 100 foot long room, but....
Hi Guys,
Its been really interesting reading all of your opinions on between these formats. im currently undertaking a dissertation on some different formats and am carrying out a short survey (just 7 or 8 questions) to get an idea of peoples feelings about different formats. It would be a great help to me if you could spare a minute to take part and the outcome could be quite interesting for everyone!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GZMtUEr4tqlEEnOPYCrNFRgZEhgh-ZES-mCKHJD9K6I/viewform
Thank you so much!
AC
Its been really interesting reading all of your opinions on between these formats. im currently undertaking a dissertation on some different formats and am carrying out a short survey (just 7 or 8 questions) to get an idea of peoples feelings about different formats. It would be a great help to me if you could spare a minute to take part and the outcome could be quite interesting for everyone!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GZMtUEr4tqlEEnOPYCrNFRgZEhgh-ZES-mCKHJD9K6I/viewform
Thank you so much!
AC
Son_of_SJ said:
Not a lot. I shouldn't even be replacing my current receiver at the moment due to lack of money. I'm getting the 1200w. Still can't say it's not a bad system for a 22 year old!
BB you are not going to love this, I literally just stumbled upon this,
I was praising Auro the other day based on conversations I had had and demos now read what this chat has said
NewHi all.
I read all the posts here and do smile at the politics
a few comments if I may.
Well we have the first officially Auro certified home cinema always ready for a demo, running full compliment 15.1 (4 subs) and Atmos, Auro (and native content) and has been for quite some time now.
DTS:X are finally ready to rock and roll shortly and of course all bets are off until the final spec and chipsets are released but we are ready
Regarding someone listening to Master and Commander on Atmos, you really should listen to it via Auro up mix, different league and remember this was a basic 5.1 mix from the beginning of bluray.... Very very clever.
Interestingly we find that leaving Auro engaged all the time works very well even for Atmos soundtracks as some elements of the latest Atmos demo disk work better in Auro.....seriously..... Although Atmos gets all the press, a system set to get the best out of all 3 formats isn't that difficult if you pick your height speakers carefully and anyone that hasn't thought about dispersion patterns and placement of their chosen speaker may not be getting what they paid for. Sure it can be a simple 'let's put 4 ceiling speakers in for Atmos and away we go, I'd suggest looking at it professionally and the results will be better. Personally there isn't enough filling for a 4 height channel setup and the sound becomes 'jumpy' between them. However front heights, side heights, back heights and a VOG for each row of seats does add up but may be more reasonable than most think if designed well.
I note that a lot of our 4K UHD disks have a DTS:X soundtrack and that new DTS:X logo (intro) on the films sounds pretty weighty even with 'just' using Auro upmix.
All in all far more involving sound is a big step forward IMHO and frankly I know our setup and Andy Bone's have rung just about everything that can gotten out of current formats and the beauty is they are also more than capable of dealing with DTS:X when it is finally released to the domestic market.
Genuinely exciting times for audio, oh and a nice 3chip DLP 4K laser pj and Lumagen 4K scaler don't make a bad job of the picture either!!! If anyone is serious about buying kit at this level just ask for a demo, at least you will know what the system
is capable of.
It might be the best it might not but it does show what the kit can do, puts a smile on everyone's face that comes through the facility, job done
I was praising Auro the other day based on conversations I had had and demos now read what this chat has said
NewHi all.
I read all the posts here and do smile at the politics
Well we have the first officially Auro certified home cinema always ready for a demo, running full compliment 15.1 (4 subs) and Atmos, Auro (and native content) and has been for quite some time now.
DTS:X are finally ready to rock and roll shortly and of course all bets are off until the final spec and chipsets are released but we are ready
Regarding someone listening to Master and Commander on Atmos, you really should listen to it via Auro up mix, different league and remember this was a basic 5.1 mix from the beginning of bluray.... Very very clever.
Interestingly we find that leaving Auro engaged all the time works very well even for Atmos soundtracks as some elements of the latest Atmos demo disk work better in Auro.....seriously..... Although Atmos gets all the press, a system set to get the best out of all 3 formats isn't that difficult if you pick your height speakers carefully and anyone that hasn't thought about dispersion patterns and placement of their chosen speaker may not be getting what they paid for. Sure it can be a simple 'let's put 4 ceiling speakers in for Atmos and away we go, I'd suggest looking at it professionally and the results will be better. Personally there isn't enough filling for a 4 height channel setup and the sound becomes 'jumpy' between them. However front heights, side heights, back heights and a VOG for each row of seats does add up but may be more reasonable than most think if designed well.
I note that a lot of our 4K UHD disks have a DTS:X soundtrack and that new DTS:X logo (intro) on the films sounds pretty weighty even with 'just' using Auro upmix.
All in all far more involving sound is a big step forward IMHO and frankly I know our setup and Andy Bone's have rung just about everything that can gotten out of current formats and the beauty is they are also more than capable of dealing with DTS:X when it is finally released to the domestic market.
Genuinely exciting times for audio, oh and a nice 3chip DLP 4K laser pj and Lumagen 4K scaler don't make a bad job of the picture either!!! If anyone is serious about buying kit at this level just ask for a demo, at least you will know what the system
is capable of.
It might be the best it might not but it does show what the kit can do, puts a smile on everyone's face that comes through the facility, job done
In the same thread from another dealer
I've now got both Auro 3d and Atmos set up properly. I've been living with the latter since November last year. It's excellent. Auro however is very special and I've only heard it within the last month. It has an alternative sound that is, to my ears very pleasing. I didn't want to like it as much as I do. Not sure if that makes sense. I find that I don't listen out so much for effects above. Instead, the sound is far more 3 dimensional on a more constant basis. I'd almost label it 'Constant audio height' whereas Atmos effects are from time to time conspicous in their absence.
Yes, Atmos has the whole DSU thing which I too think is excellent. Watching Master & Commander the other night however and I heard footsteps and creaking from above me. Inconsistent with what was going on before me as it was all supposed to be under foot. Audibly confusing. Some will however rave about that. I've yet to try the sequence through Auro. Both will have flaws when upmixing.
Auro in it's layout is more directional and focussed than Atmos. The gap to be bridged is far lesser between speakers and the integration seem's to provide a very different yet obvious 3 dimensional sound.
I've now got both Auro 3d and Atmos set up properly. I've been living with the latter since November last year. It's excellent. Auro however is very special and I've only heard it within the last month. It has an alternative sound that is, to my ears very pleasing. I didn't want to like it as much as I do. Not sure if that makes sense. I find that I don't listen out so much for effects above. Instead, the sound is far more 3 dimensional on a more constant basis. I'd almost label it 'Constant audio height' whereas Atmos effects are from time to time conspicous in their absence.
Yes, Atmos has the whole DSU thing which I too think is excellent. Watching Master & Commander the other night however and I heard footsteps and creaking from above me. Inconsistent with what was going on before me as it was all supposed to be under foot. Audibly confusing. Some will however rave about that. I've yet to try the sequence through Auro. Both will have flaws when upmixing.
Auro in it's layout is more directional and focussed than Atmos. The gap to be bridged is far lesser between speakers and the integration seem's to provide a very different yet obvious 3 dimensional sound.
Bigboss, do you have any of the following blu-rays? i am tempted to go back for another demo at superfi and have a different person setup the system and assist me. as the last person might be the reason why atmos sucked, most likely setup wrong. during auto calibration the left speaker was emitting sound and highlighted according to the screen but the right speaker in the room was emitting it, fronts/surround were the same!
also think he went into some speaker settings while the film was playing and it said surrounds were off, and the sub too! complete amateur from what i seen. and getting things mixed up all the time trying to explain atmos to me.. if i take some good atmos material i might actually hear it. deserves a second chance!
the atmos discs i have are:
tmnt, transformers 4, mission impossible rogue nation, hunger games mockingjay part 1 and terminator genisys
also think he went into some speaker settings while the film was playing and it said surrounds were off, and the sub too! complete amateur from what i seen. and getting things mixed up all the time trying to explain atmos to me.. if i take some good atmos material i might actually hear it. deserves a second chance!
the atmos discs i have are:
tmnt, transformers 4, mission impossible rogue nation, hunger games mockingjay part 1 and terminator genisys
Why not just go to a proper delaer that guarantees a proper demo.
I have never had what I would class as a good demo in any shop
Also getting to know a good dealer is priceless for advice and future purchases
You are clearly hooked and I am sure will be buying a fair bit of kit in your lifetime.
Might as well buy good stuff you know you like rather than keep fumbling along never quite getting there. I am sure a lot people can relate to that last bit including me
I have never had what I would class as a good demo in any shop
Also getting to know a good dealer is priceless for advice and future purchases
You are clearly hooked and I am sure will be buying a fair bit of kit in your lifetime.
Might as well buy good stuff you know you like rather than keep fumbling along never quite getting there. I am sure a lot people can relate to that last bit including me
bigboss
Moderator
To be honest, I'm not bothered about Auro 3D at all. It is bound to fail, given that they have only 1 movie upcoming on blu ray disc, after more than 12 months in the market. Atmos on the other hand have had many releases. So the dealers are finding different ways to entice customers. Let's see a proper reviewer say this, instead of biased dealers. The configuration isn't mentioned on Atmos white paper, so I'm not interested.
bigboss
Moderator
bigboss said:
is there any special scenes in those films that you could say show off how good atmos is? so i can take them along
ellisdj said:
i can't say myself i am hooked, but i do like my system and home cinema in general ever since i bought my first simple 3.1 system in 2014
and of course when funds allow a small upgrade each time to a part of a system *scratch_one-s_head*
bigboss
Moderator
TMNT: Rubbish film, but one scene is decent for Atmos: Mountain and Avalanche scene.
Transformers 4: The climax scene is demo Atmos. There another scene where the jets pass over the people. Few more but can't remember.
MI Rogue Nation: Can't remember much, but there are some helicopter scenes.
Hunger Games Mockingjay 1: Can't remember a scene to pinpoint, but Atmos gave an exceptional surround envelope effect, making you feel as if you're in the scene.
Terminator Genisys: The helicopter scene where Arnold Schwarzenegger fights John Connor is awesome, so is the opening scene of judgement day arrival.
Transformers 4: The climax scene is demo Atmos. There another scene where the jets pass over the people. Few more but can't remember.
MI Rogue Nation: Can't remember much, but there are some helicopter scenes.
Hunger Games Mockingjay 1: Can't remember a scene to pinpoint, but Atmos gave an exceptional surround envelope effect, making you feel as if you're in the scene.
Terminator Genisys: The helicopter scene where Arnold Schwarzenegger fights John Connor is awesome, so is the opening scene of judgement day arrival.
bigboss
Moderator
The one thing that annoyed me a lot was Auro having the cheek to charge €149 / $199 to upgrade the AVR to support Auro 3D, without any content to show to justify the price.
bigboss said:
BB that comment wasnt a dig more of a friendly bantery poke, we was debating this the other day then I happened to read that today randomly on AVF. I am not as mad as you think I am.
I dont know the source its not the same chap as where I heard it from I can guarantee that, there is no connection between them either, but he explains pretty clesarly what he thinks as an installer. I thought it was interesting as its exaclty what I was saying the other day.
The post is clearly plugging his business but if you think about it he is going against the trend in saying what he has so there is more chance of damage than good. He is prepared to put his system where his mouth is so to speak, you have to respect that.
You can disregard auro, but consider their route to market its got to be a million times more difficult than a house name like Dolby but I would hardly say Dolby are smashing the blu ray release market, quite a lot of big films are still coming out in 7.1 even a year or more later. Could that be because these companies have affiliation with DTS or just not interested. But Auro were still exhibiting at CES this year and I bet they have projects going on even if not in europe
DTS smashed Dolby in the DVD market and were better sound tracks every time and a betting man would put money on DTS to do the same with UHD Blu ray. Maybe they charge much less per hour who knows why this is the case, I have always really liked Dolby Sound tracks.
However if this is the case same as DVD where 90% of releases are DTSX and the format allows for flexible placement then a smart man puts the speakers where they sound best not where Dolby has tried to tie them in to, think about
That post also proves that there are dealers and installers who work with this stuff every day that think Auro speaker placement sounds better than dolby and is clearly more flexible - which is essential moving forward because who knows what sound track will be on the disk
After experiencing both I could take or leave atmos - for what it adds doesnt warrant the investment from my point of view, and I have read this reaction a lot even Nugget said the same just before. You cna tell he desperately wanted to like it / be impressed
But the demo of the auro content on its demo disc got me thinking about it I dont mind admitting. There is no route for me yet or the budget I would need to do it how I would want it so its got to wait.
Nugget you dont ever trust me, so this is likely falling on deaf ears. However trust me when I tell you there is a casm between the true home cinema experience and what most people are getting, its grand canyon sized as well.
I for years worked at it with a lof of technical knowledge and understanding, far more than most and was truly happy with what I had achieved, I thought it was the best it could get. I was more wrong more about that than anything else.
One day at a good dealers premises turned everything on its head and I learned more that day than years of doing this pretty much on my own. A lot of people go to this dealers and then mimic what he does, that is testament in itself, I have not done that but I dont blame people for doing it 1 bit.
There are a few dealers now that appear to be having a simialr effect on people and those people are getting more performance for their money by copying what these people are doing.
Once you experience this level you can have a benchmark to work to and that makes your upgrade path easier and more cost effective, you wont waste as much money or will get more performance for the money invested because you already know you like it, rather than just hoping you will like the purchase you make and that you can make it work.
Good dealers are worth getting to know early as poss, ones with great demo facilities willing to give you their time and advie are priceless
ellisdj said:
i'm not travelling around the country for just a demo. as you can imagine me being 22 i don't have a car. and do not wish to get coach/train to somewhere i have never been before in my life for personal reasons i don't want to discuss to have a demo somewhere.
i will contact geoffe was it? at castle sound and vision if my av receiver is sold tomorrow. and see what he does.
OK dude is up to you. On AVF these companies run forum days where lots of people travel from all over the country to go to. You might feel more comfortable attending one of them and you could scrounge a lift.
Realistically we are only talking reading or Hertfordshire or Slough not Botswana but I appreciate it's difficult without a car.
I dare say Geoff at Castle will have cracking kit but I don't know if he sells the run of the mill kit or just high end £40k projectors linn hifi etc.
Realistically we are only talking reading or Hertfordshire or Slough not Botswana but I appreciate it's difficult without a car.
I dare say Geoff at Castle will have cracking kit but I don't know if he sells the run of the mill kit or just high end £40k projectors linn hifi etc.
bigboss
Moderator
I am not in favour of all movies being released in Atmos / DTS:X / Auro 3D format as that would lead to gimmicks. You need proper content in the film to justify immersive audio. It's the same as not wanting all films to be shot with an IMAX camera.
40 Atmos films in 1 year isn't a bad achievement at all.
40 Atmos films in 1 year isn't a bad achievement at all.
bigboss said:
from what i have read DTS:X wouldn't be bad having all films in that format? i have read two things about it. one is that effects can be properly utilised in all channels and sound much better compared to DTS-HD master audio. (true or not) and the other that your speaker positioning can not be perfect but still work very well compared to other formats with unusual speaker placement.
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