3D COMPATABLE AV RECEIVERS

[admin_exported]

Hello

With the news of sony's new 3d compatable av receiver does this mean that if i was to purchase a new 3d tv and blu ray player that i wont get surround sound without me purchasing a 3d receiver.

I have currently have the onkyo tx-sr605 will i still get dts ma and true hd via my current receiver if it is connected by hdmi to a 3d tv.

I really do not want to purchase a new receiver again.

i am not going to get 3d tv until prices drop but surely i dont have to upgrade all 3 again

Your advise would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Well, there will be receivers with HDMI 1.4 and 3D pass-through. Onkyo is launching some, and there's one in the new Sony range announced in the USA.

And at least one 3D-capable Blu-ray player announced so far, from Panasonic, has two HDMI outputs: one to feed the screen, the other to send audio to a receiver.

 

[Anonymous]

so will i not get surround without upgrading to a 3d receiver or can i still use the onkyo tx-sr605 when i purchase a new 3d tv

I have also a ps3 so i have heard that will be 3d compatable via firmware upgrade

 

[Anonymous]

Panasonic are about to launch the BDT300 3D blu ray player with twin HDMI outputs, one a 1.3V HDMI to send the HD audio to your existing Amp and one a 1.4V to send the picture to a new 3D TV.

With one of these you would not need to change your amp, however price and release dates have not yet been given, but I would think it would be about £500.00ish.

I am waiting to hear the price & release date, as I am interested in being totally future proofed with my next blu ray player purchase, just in case i go down that route.

 

[Anonymous]

Right i see 2 hdmi's makes sense now

So if the ps3 is going to be 3d which i heard via firmware upgrade how will this work as my ps3 40gb has only 1 hdmi port.

 

[Andrew Everard]

In order to use that with an AV amp, yes you will need a new 3D-compatible amp.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:In order to use that with an AV amp, yes you will need a new 3D-compatible amp.
I guess you could send the HDMI from the PS3 to the TV direct and use the optical for the sound? Although you would miss out on the HD audio that way round

 

[Andrew Everard]

Well yes, but then that's true of just about any player/receiver. The only ways to get both HD Audio and 3D video seem to be:

1. a 3D player with two HDMI outputs
2. a new 3D-capable receiver able to pass the video signal from a 3D player, or
3. a 3D player with onboard decoding and multichannel analogue outputs, plus a receiver with matching multichannel inputs

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew,

Yeh, I did not even think about option 3, although I do like to see the HD Audio on the screen of the amp, a small thing, I know.

Do you know whether Sonys new 770 has analogue outs or twin HDMIs as that seems to be priced very well, much cheaper then I expect the panasonic to be.

 

[Andrew Everard]

As far as i know it only has one HDMI, and the spec says Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, which suggests it has multichannel analogue audio outs. Will have to check with our man who was at the Sony launch when in the office on Monday.

 

[Anonymous]

Great thanks for your help Andrew

 

[Anonymous]

Totally stupid and lazy that companies such as Sony and Samsung aren't making their 3D blu-ray players fully compatible with HDMI 1.3 receivers. They're happy to build players with analogue outs, optical and coaxial, but not 2 HDMIs which would be far more useful than any of the latter. Bizarre.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Or maybe, just maybe, they'd like you to buy a new receiver...?

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
Well yes, but then that's true of just about any player/receiver. The only ways to get both HD Audio and 3D video seem to be:

1. a 3D player with two HDMI outputs
2. a new 3D-capable receiver able to pass the video signal from a 3D player, or
3. a 3D player with onboard decoding and multichannel analogue outputs, plus a receiver with matching multichannel inputs

Or wait until Gefen, Octava etc. release a 1.4 Splitter so you can send the video to your display, and your audio to your 1.3 AVR. Problems have arisen in the past when trying to successfully split to 2 displays, but seperate audio and video shouldn't be a prob.

This will likely be the cheapest option.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:Or maybe, just maybe, they'd like you to buy a new receiver...?

Thing is Andrew, I don't have any objection (in principle) to spending money on a new 3D blu-ray player or TV, which is after all new technology, and is my choice entirely whether to invest in or not. I do however object (if I buy into 3D) to being asked to purchase a new receiver purely for a technical compatibility issue which companies such as Panasonic have found a good workaround for with their 2 HDMI output 3D blu-ray player. If Pansonic can do it, why not the other companies? And why continue to churn out blu-ray players with optical, coaxial and analogue outs for that matter?

It's either the Panasonic, or a splitter as The Force has suggested - not replacing my 3 month old amp!

 

[Anonymous]

amita:
It's either the Panasonic, or a splitter as The Force has suggested - not replacing my 3 month old amp!

I agree mate. The real question is...if they can create such a brilliant 3D effect as they did with Avatar without the need for shutter glasses, then why do we need the shutter 3D effect at all ?

After recently seeing James Cameron's superb blockbuster and it's mighty 3D effect without compromising on pq, it's obvious that we can have the best of both worlds simply by using polarized glasses. No need for a new TV to sync with the glasses...no need for a new AVR. Just simply release the BD's that are compatible with the Polarized specs.

Whether this will need special calibration for your displays akin to ISF I'm not sure, so that gamma is correctly matched to how it should be viewed as it is in the flix - but surely this has got to be the most obvious option until true holographic 3D displays have been invented !

 

[Anonymous]

THE_FORCE:amita:
It's either the Panasonic, or a splitter as The Force has suggested - not replacing my 3 month old amp!

I agree mate. The real question is...if they can create such a brilliant 3D effect as they did with Avatar without the need for shutter glasses, then why do we need the shutter 3D effect at all ?

After recently seeing James Cameron's superb blockbuster and it's mighty 3D effect without compromising on pq, it's obvious that we can have the best of both worlds simply by using polarized glasses. No need for a new TV to sync with the glasses...no need for a new AVR. Just simply release the BD's that are compatible with the Polarized specs.

Whether this will need special calibration for your displays akin to ISF I'm not sure, so that gamma is correctly matched to how it should be viewed as it is in the flix - but surely this has got to be the most obvious option until true holographic 3D displays have been invented !

Polarised glasses would be much easier wouldn't they? All it takes is
for the batteries in the 3D specs to run a bit low before the 3D effect
goes seriously wonky (as I experienced during the Panasonic roadshow -
awesome when it worked though). I heard that LG were going down the
polarised glasses route, but not at full HD resolution. Have you heard
similarly?
p.s. awesome AV rooms you have by the way!

 

[Tom Moreno]

amita:
Andrew Everard:Or maybe, just maybe, they'd like you to buy a new receiver...?

Thing is Andrew, I don't have any objection (in principle) to spending money on a new 3D blu-ray player or TV, which is after all new technology, and is my choice entirely whether to invest in or not. I do however object (if I buy into 3D) to being asked to purchase a new receiver purely for a technical compatibility issue which companies such as Panasonic have found a good workaround for with their 2 HDMI output 3D blu-ray player. If Pansonic can do it, why not the other companies? And why continue to churn out blu-ray players with optical, coaxial and analogue outs for that matter?

It's either the Panasonic, or a splitter as The Force has suggested - not replacing my 3 month old amp!

It sounds like the dual HDMI output on the panny is a feature to ensure backwards compatibility with older components, sorta like including 8 channel analogue outputs on a player. My guess is that any of us who have a recent HDMI AVR will be weeding out players that don't have this feature until it comes time to replace our AVRs in at least a few years' time. I'm sure more than 1 manufacturer will offer this feature and I bet it will be one reserved for the higher range models rather than the budget ones.

 

[Andrew Everard]

As I've been saying for a very long time now, 3D is industry-led, not consumer-led: they're telling us we want it, rather than us hammering at their doors begging for 3D TV.

And a major part of the reasoning behind 3D is to return consumer electronics manufacturers to profitability in a market where the prices of TVs and Blu-ray players - in particular - have been in freefall.

They want us to go back to buying nice (for them) premium-priced product again, and they know from the Pioneer experience that picture quality alone isn't enough of a draw. So they're trying to tempt us with 3D.

That's why I've been amused by those who have commented on how reasonable the prices are for the 3D TVs announced so far: yes, £2000 may seem good for a 40in 3D TV, or even a 50in model, but that overlooks the fact that right this morning you can go out and buy a reasonable 40in LCD TV for under £500, and a 50in for well under a grand.

In the mass-market - and here I mean among those buyers who just go into a major electrical shed and choose a TV, and wouldn't think of reading a magazine first, let alone consider themselves enthusiasts - maximum bang for buck is what counts. And at the moment that still means a neighbour-impressing big screen for minimum outlay.

Even Marks and Spencer, for all that 'This isn't just milk; this is M&S milk' marketing, will do you a 50in TV at the mo for £900. That's what the big consumer electronics companies are up against.

As the man from Sony said in this story we published a while back - and I only quote Sony because the leader of that company's 3D&BD Project Management Division said in public what I am sure others are thinking in private - "An end to the price slides alone would be enough to create big profits for us.

"3D TVs themselves require only upgraded software, so we don't have to worry about expensive parts pushing up overall costs. The only thing that would push up overall costs would be the production of special glasses for viewing the TVs."

 

[Clare Newsome]

Plus, of course, the movie studios and disc distributors (which, of course, Sony is also one of) love that 3D is a much more secure system. Won't see 3D movies getting camera-phone recorded in your local Odeon anytime soon, nor uploaded onto t'interweb....

 

[Andrew Everard]

Indeed, not to mention the fact that they can charge a bit more for your seat to watch a 3D movie at the flicks...

 

[wireman]

Andrew Everard:

As I've been saying for a very long time now, 3D is industry-led, not consumer-led: they're telling us we want it, rather than us hammering at their doors begging for 3D TV.

And a major part of the reasoning behind 3D is to return consumer electronics manufacturers to profitability in a market where the prices of TVs and Blu-ray players - in particular - have been in freefall.

They want us to go back to buying nice (for them) premium-priced product again, and they know from the Pioneer experience that picture quality alone isn't enough of a draw. So they're trying to tempt us with 3D.

That's why I've been amused by those who have commented on how reasonable the prices are for the 3D TVs announced so far: yes, £2000 may seem good for a 40in 3D TV, or even a 50in model, but that overlooks the fact that right this morning you can go out and buy a reasonable 40in LCD TV for under £500, and a 50in for well under a grand.

In the mass-market - and here I mean among those buyers who just go into a major electrical shed and choose a TV, and wouldn't think of reading a magazine first, let alone consider themselves enthusiasts - maximum bang for buck is what counts. And at the moment that still means a neighbour-impressing big screen for minimum outlay.

Even Marks and Spencer, for all that 'This isn't just milk; this is M&S milk' marketing, will do you a 50in TV at the mo for £900. That's what the big consumer electronics companies are up against.

As the man from Sony said in this story we published a while back - and I only quote Sony because the leader of that company's 3D&BD Project Management Division said in public what I am sure others are thinking in private - "An end to the price slides alone would be enough to create big profits for us.

"3D TVs themselves require only upgraded software, so we don't have to worry about expensive parts pushing up overall costs. The only thing that would push up overall costs would be the production of special glasses for viewing the TVs."

I don't understand Mr E. Surely this situation of manufacturers not making enough money is of their own making: The big retailers like M&S/Comet/Curry's et al couldn't sell the product at ridiculously low prices if the manufacturers themselves weren't selling it to them at an even lower cost.

Isn't this really a case of manufacturers having shot themselves in the foot, then having realised their mistake, complaining that they're haemorrhaging?

 

[Andrew Everard]

The manufacturers would tell you It's a combination of big retailers demanding ever greater discounts to satisfy a discount-led market, and new players encroaching on territory once the preserve of the Japanese majors.

And I'm not saying it's not a problem of their own making, nor am I in any way apologising for what they are now trying to do, as I hope would have been clear from my previous post.

 

[wireman]

Andrew Everard:The manufacturers would tell you It's a combination of big retailers demanding ever greater discounts to satisfy a discount-led market, Do we see B&O succumbing to off-loading product at huge discounts to Comets? Or Porsche off-loading discounted product at The Car Supermarket just to shift it?

Andrew Everard: ...and new players encroaching on territory once the preserve of the Japanese majors.
I could be totally wrong here, but I don't see (for example) Naim buckling under the pressure of now having to compete with the far-east encroaching on their territory. In the current economic climate especially I'm sure 'shifting product' at a decent enough price isn't the plain sailing it used to be, but never-the-less Naim (amongst others) seem to have carved a niche which to some extent is resiliant to such economic woes and the encroaching competition.

Andrew Everard:And I'm not saying it's not a problem of their own making, nor am I in any way apologising for what they are now trying to do, as I hope would have been clear from my previous post.
I'm certainly not trying to shoot the messenger; rather I appreciate the insight, even if I don't understand why the mainstream manufacturers are now complaining about the hole they've now dug for themselves!

 

[Andrew Everard]

wireman:Do we see B&O succumbing to off-loading product at huge discounts to Comets? Or Porsche off-loading discounted product at The Car Supermarket just to shift it?

Both companies mentioned are arguably niche manufacturers, and of course both have their own dealerships, rather than selling through chains in competition with other brands.

wireman:I could be totally wrong here, but I don't see (for example) Naim buckling under the pressure of now having to compete with the far-east encroaching on their territory.

Again a specialist brand with a loyal dealer-base, and I don't see Sony attempting to tackle Naim in its own market sector. I meant more the way that the two big Korean brands have eroded and overtaken the traditional market-shares held by Sony, Panasonic and the like, and the way that OEM manufacturers are able to offer products at even lower prices.

wireman:I'm certainly not trying to shoot the messenger; rather I appreciate the insight, even if I don't understand why the mainstream manufacturers are now complaining about the hole they've now dug for themselves!

Trouble is, even they didn't reconise the hole until they found themselves wondering why the sky was just a small patch of blue many miles above them.