2014 Set up - Active Speakers & HT - Seeking opinions

[WishTree]

Hi All.. I have sold all my existing set up to start fresh in 2014. We only have a Zeppelin Air which is my wife's office set up.

Background: Every second year or so, we upgrade the electronics that we use the most. I initially fought this but for several reasons, be it technology moving forward or just a different / evolved view of things, we have been changing stuff. So, decided not to fight this any more and get a method to madness. Computers and phones are relatively easily to do so.

What I am looking for: The set up has to decode all the surround formats, though mostly used for music. Tried two speakers several times, but in the end a center channel is a must for us. Do not care abut .1 or .2 or surrounds. Ideally it would be a 3.0 set up.

Been reading about active speakers alot lately. I have actually heard the AVI, Genelec and few of B&O. In the past years, active speakers were out of question, mainly due to existing commitment (read amps) with passive set up and ofcourse the huge flaming argument about AVI. Well the audition of AVI did not help either but fortunately, I did not give up. There are othere brands available too which are more WAF and discreet which is a needed thing. This iteration would like to go with Active speakers.

Current short list of the set up is

Option 1:

Oppo BDP-105D with Beolab 9 and possible one of their active center speakers

Option 2:

Oppo BDP-105D with Genelec G3

Do you have more suggestions that I should consider? Feel free to let me know.

I might most probably sell the entire set up in 2 years time. So, I will look into the used market too but I prefer to go with a dealer and get all the warranties in place. I had Oppo BDP-105 and I know the SQ and love it. I have heard some models of B&O and Genelec but not the one that are on my short-list.

 

[davedotco]

Adam Artist series.

A choice of stand mount Artist5 or floorstanding Artist6 main speakers and an Artist 6H for the centre.

Only downside is that the centre channel is a bit on the large side. Otherwise a fine system with near identical speakers that should integrate very nicely. About £1500 all up.

http://www.adam-audio.com/en/multimedia/products

Centre channel.

 

[EvPa]

I'm seconding davedotco here, ADAM Audio's ARTist range is very good, specially if you manage to get a good deal from Thomann (I paid roughly half-price for mine due to some so-called "visual flaws on the housing" which I haven't managed to see yet).

I own a pair of ARTist6 and a Sub7, works extremely well for listening to music and watching TV/movies; I do not own the centre channel one (ARTist6H, as pictured in davedotco's post) but it's an ARTist6 in a shorter cabinet and rotated woofers and tweeter so it ought to sound pretty good.

Here's a picture of my setup, please note that the ARTist range is available in black or white:

 

[The_Lhc]

Only downside is that the centre channel is a bit on the large side.

Aren't they all these days? One of the reasons I haven't upgraded my HT setup is because current centre channel speakers are so ludicrously enormous, I looked at the KEF Q and R series but even the smaller of the two centres in those ranges is pretty much a floorstander on its side, they won't even fit on the shelf that my current centre (old KEF Cresta C) is sitting on. Insanity.

 

[DocG]

What's your two-yearly hifi budget?

Always happy to help people spend their money!

 

[davedotco]

I'm seconding davedotco here, ADAM Audio's ARTist range is very good, specially if you manage to get a good deal from Thomann (I paid roughly half-price for mine due to some so-called "visual flaws on the housing" which I haven't managed to see yet).

I own a pair of ARTist6 and a Sub7, works extremely well for listening to music and watching TV/movies; I do not own the centre channel one (ARTist6H, as pictured in davedotco's post) but it's an ARTist6 in a shorter cabinet and rotated woofers and tweeter so it ought to sound pretty good.

Here's a picture of my setup, please note that the ARTist range is available in black or white:

Hi EvPa.

Did your Matrix Mini I ever arrive to partner your Artists?

If it dit I would be very interested in how you are getting on with it. Perhaps in a separete thread though...... :type:

 

[EvPa]

Only downside is that the centre channel is a bit on the large side.

Aren't they all these days?

[...]

they won't even fit on the shelf that my current centre (old KEF Cresta C) is sitting on. Insanity.

After looking at KEF's website (http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/about_kef/museum/1990s/Cresta1_Cresta2_Cresta3_C/index.html), the ARTist6H is actually only wider (485mm vs 425mm) than your Cresta C; it's a bit lower (150mm vs 170mm) and roughly the same depthwise (185mm vs 188mm).

Hi EvPa.

Did your Matrix Mini I ever arrive to partner your Artists?

If it dit I would be very interested in how you are getting on with it. Perhaps in a separete thread though...... :type:

I haven't really had time to try it, I'm currently in another country.

I will try to do a short review as soon as I am able to.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

hi WishTree. I don't know if you were aware of WISA. if not then I guess this may interes you. WISA is an organisation which came up with a standard of wirelesly transmitting audio in up to 24/96 standard in up to 8 channels (i.e. 7.1 set-up). now they are trying to make their standard more recognised and wider available. here's some of the companies that decided to join:

http://www.wisaassociation.org/Association/Membership_List.aspx

there are still only few WISA certified products avaialble on the market but I'm expecting quite a few emerge in 2014. one of the early adopters were B&O. they released WISA enabled active speakers (BeoLab 17,18,19) and TVs. this makes up for a very neat surround system indeed. essentially you have the source and transmitter built into the TV and then active speakers receive the signal wirelessly. check out the presentation to get the idea how it all looks like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKldYFuiAJc

of course B&O is on the expensive side but the good thing about WISA is that it'll not only be for B&O to enjoy. other manufacturers should bring in their products to market soon enough. for instance this Link The system consisted of a pair of Beolab 19 speakers for the front L/R mains, a pair of Beolab 17s in the rear, a Beolab 18 sub, and a Beoview 11 TV, which features a WISA transmitter and an integrated center-channel.

sounds cool, doesn't it?

 

[WishTree]

hi WishTree. I don't know if you were aware of WISA. if not then I guess this may interes you. WISA is an organisation which came up with a standard of wirelesly transmitting audio in up to 24/96 standard in up to 8 channels (i.e. 7.1 set-up). now they are trying to make their standard more recognised and wider available. here's some of the companies that decided to join:

http://www.wisaassociation.org/Association/Membership_List.aspx

Thanks Oldric! I got to know about it when I saw the launch of new speakers from B&O. But your post has more meat in the right direction.

WISA is relevant and needed as we experience lipsync issues with our current AirPlay based set ups (Be it the zeppelin Air or the Marantz NR1604) Luckily when it comes to Audio only, airplay is alright, but the SQ has a small dip versus wired connection.

The 3.0 you suggested is what I am after as well but I am not too sure yet whether I am willing to pay the early adapter price (Both money wise as well as technological rough edges). I wish there are more WISA speakers and processors to choose from but it is not 2016 yet

 

[WishTree]

Adam Artist series.

A choice of stand mount Artist5 or floorstanding Artist6 main speakers and an Artist 6H for the centre.

Thanks Dave. This makes my more affordable / pragmatic Option

Option 3:

Oppo BDP-105D with Adam Artist 6 + Artist 6H

 

[WishTree]

Here's a picture of my setup, please note that the ARTist range is available in black or white:

The set up looks great! Especially the subwoofer enclosure. Also, thanks for the suggestion about Thomann. I will definetly explore that option once I decide to go the Adam route.

 

[richardw42]

Have you seen the AVI DM5. A lot smaller, and one as a centre channel would be ok.

If it's important AVI should be able to affix the badge in landscape.

 

[WishTree]

What's your two-yearly hifi budget?

Always happy to help people spend their money!

No fixed budget! Unlike car market, HiFi depreciates much lesser and so I am hoping that most of the funds get reinvested in for 2016 set up.

As of now comfortable with an Oppo BDP-105D + Two Beolab 9 + one Beloab center, mostly ex-demo stuff as possible. So let us say about 8000 Pounds but spending less is not a bad idea either. The Adam Artist choice reduces the outflow considerably and help us go for another vacation !!

We are moving homes and will be located closer to my sister-in-law who has three cute girls. Normally they are well behaved when they visit us but then a big helping of the afternoon cake some times make them run out of control.

My other half wants to put everything on wall just to be sure, where as I finally want to get some full range speakers. Which way we decide, only the auditions will tell!

 

[JMacMan]

If you're looking for an integrated AV system, it's difficult to go past B&O as an overall performance and ownership experience IMHO & E.

If you have or are considering a projector, then the use of a dedicated centre channel will work nicely.

On the other hand, if you are using a large screen TV, then almost every centre channel option has either placement or aesthetic issues IME.

Here, a B&O TV, with it's fully active speaker array, doing double duty as the centre channel speaker in AV mode, is a huge boon, both performance and aeshetically wise. You also have the advantage of a state of the art surround sound processor on board, which mitigates the use of another box, and a rack to carry it.

If you are running a projector, I would expect to see picture quality differences between say a Panasonic/Sony Bluray player, and the Oppo.

However, if a TV, then I would think the observable picture quality differences would be very small, and by saving the price of admission for the Oppo, the money could be put towards a B&O TV, as an overall package/solution to your entertainment needs.

Of course, I'm a little biased as I own Beolab 9's plus B&O TV, but I did a lot of homework before buying, and looked at a number of different solutions.

18 months in, zero regrets, and you will pry it out of my cold, dead hands, unless you give me back more of the same - i.e. B&O...lol

Seriously, highly recommended and well worth the entry price as an overall ownership proposition.

HTH

JMac.. 8)

 

[WishTree]

Here, a B&O TV, with it's fully active speaker array, doing double duty as the centre channel speaker in AV mode, is a huge boon, both performance and aeshetically wise. You also have the advantage of a state of the art surround sound processor on board, which mitigates the use of another box, and a rack to carry it.

Hi JMac.. thanks for writing on this thread. One quick question to you about Beolab 9. Have you come across any who has put them on wall? I only ask because if it is possible then I might be able to solve my wife's botheration.

Coming back to B&O TV.. Yes, I did consider the option especially after reading your other posts/threads. It is very tempting especially given the price of BDP-105D as a B&O TV replaces the audio decoding and pre-amp fucntion as well as center channel. Also I read that out of the box picture performance is really good.

However the size of the screens and the cost of admittance seems to be ridiculous, from where I am standing at the moment. We had a 55" Sony LED and for the new home we have a 46" Toshiba which are really economical. The TV is watched, may be 30% of time and so is the center channel. To get into 55" range or even 46". the prices of B&O are astronomical at the moment.

Since I want to spend on the quality amps and speakers, I can see how Beolab 9s are priced not so exhorbitant. However I do not see the same mileage with B&O TV.

My wife still has an old Apple 22" monitor and I lived with Apple cinema display, which is simply expensive, for an year but then before the warranty expired, I looked out for options (primarily because of reflective ness of the screens) and found a similar sized LG monitor, IPS screen and excat same performance out of the box for such a small price and never missed the Apple Cinema display. I know that LG monitor does not have the same appeal like Cinema Display but to me charging a premium like with our Macbook Airs is acceptable but marking a higher price for Apple cinema display, because they can is not OK! I guess this is all individual and there might be others who do not even see all this with a monitor. BTW, here is the newer version which we plan to get this year.

But.. we are yet to take the trip to the next B&O showroom, which is in next few weeks (and so I am collecting all the information) and the TV might appeal beyond monetary equation!!

BTW.. we are sold on Beoplay A9. It is brilliant!

 

[DocG]

The AudioVector Discreet range could be an option. There's a couple of 'howevers' though:

- First: IMO you should go for the Avantgarde version (the ribbon tweeter is soooo much better than the dome tweeter in the 'lower' versions). If you want floorstanders, that would be the Si3 Avantgarde Discreet, with a price ticket around 10 000 EUR/pair. I don't know how much a Discreet Centre speaker will cost you. So it might get pretty expensive ... :wall:

- Two: I'm not sure how to build a HT system with Discreet speakers. I don't think you have separate digital out channels for L, R and C from an BDP. You could connect them through the analog outs, at the price of an extra D-->A-->D conversion, which does not sound appealing. :wall: You could always ask the question on their forum; the admin usually replies very quickly.

- Three: you can't wall-mount the Si3! AudioVector have on-wall speakers, also in active version, but they are far from full range. So you might need a sub too (which, as I understand, you try to avoid...). :wall:

Personally, I think the B&O set-up, like JMac describes it, might be just the ticket for you. If only you could wall-mount the Lab9s. :wall:

(actually, I'm not so sure full range and wall-mountable go together in one sentence... )

EDIT: maybe a B&O TV + 2 x BeoLab 3 + BeoLab 11: all wall-mountable. The BeoLab11 is hardly a subwoofer though (33Hz at -10dB).

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Adam Artist series.

A choice of stand mount Artist5 or floorstanding Artist6 main speakers and an Artist 6H for the centre.

Only downside is that the centre channel is a bit on the large side. Otherwise a fine system with near identical speakers that should integrate very nicely. About £1500 all up.

http://www.adam-audio.com/en/multimedia/products

Centre channel.

I also recommend these speakers.

 

[matt49]

(With apologies if these have already been mentioned) Genelec also do active speakers designed for on-wall or in-wall use.

I don't have any experience of them though, and they wouldn't be my choice appearance-wise.

Matt

 

[JMacMan]

Here, a B&O TV, with it's fully active speaker array, doing double duty as the centre channel speaker in AV mode, is a huge boon, both performance and aeshetically wise. You also have the advantage of a state of the art surround sound processor on board, which mitigates the use of another box, and a rack to carry it.

Hi JMac.. thanks for writing on this thread. One quick question to you about Beolab 9. Have you come across any who has put them on wall? I only ask because if it is possible then I might be able to solve my wife's botheration.

Coming back to B&O TV.. Yes, I did consider the option especially after reading your other posts/threads. It is very tempting especially given the price of BDP-105D as a B&O TV replaces the audio decoding and pre-amp fucntion as well as center channel. Also I read that out of the box picture performance is really good.

However the size of the screens and the cost of admittance seems to be ridiculous, from where I am standing at the moment. We had a 55" Sony LED and for the new home we have a 46" Toshiba which are really economical. The TV is watched, may be 30% of time and so is the center channel. To get into 55" range or even 46". the prices of B&O are astronomical at the moment.

Since I want to spend on the quality amps and speakers, I can see how Beolab 9s are priced not so exhorbitant. However I do not see the same mileage with B&O TV.

My wife still has an old Apple 22" monitor and I lived with Apple cinema display, which is simply expensive, for an year but then before the warranty expired, I looked out for options (primarily because of reflective ness of the screens) and found a similar sized LG monitor, IPS screen and excat same performance out of the box for such a small price and never missed the Apple Cinema display. I know that LG monitor does not have the same appeal like Cinema Display but to me charging a premium like with our Macbook Airs is acceptable but marking a higher price for Apple cinema display, because they can is not OK! I guess this is all individual and there might be others who do not even see all this with a monitor. BTW, here is the newer version which we plan to get this year.

But.. we are yet to take the trip to the next B&O showroom, which is in next few weeks (and so I am collecting all the information) and the TV might appeal beyond monetary equation!!

BTW.. we are sold on Beoplay A9. It is brilliant!

With respect to wall mounting a pair of Beolab 9's - well, anything is possible, but no, B&O designed them to be a discreet, fully active three way speaker sitting on the floor, and the cone shape (in side and front elevation) would not really look aesthetically pleasing to my mind if you were to do so by some third party means.

If wall mounting is what you are after, then there are other suitable speaker options within the B&O portfolio that would suit/are designed for such a role, such as the new Beolab 18's, (which are wireless capable) and the new Beolab 19 sub (also wireless capable). The 18's in the wooden lamellas look very nice to my eyes; certainly classic as well as being different in their styling.

I tend to agree with your comments upon the TV's pricing in the main - not so much because I think them poor value - quite the opposite in fact when you price it as three otherwise separate items combined in the one box; a display, active centre channel speaker, and a surround sound processor - but rather that TV technology is still not 'mature' as far as flat screen TV's are concerned, with 4k, perhaps 8k, and OLED around the corner.

As such, spending a premium on a TV at this stage of the technology development was something I was personally cautious about, preferring to spend more on the speakers and less on the TV, and as such I personally went with a B&O Beoplay V1-40, coupled with the Lab 9's, as for my room of 5 x 4 metres, a 40" TV was all that was really needed - certainly any bigger than perhaps 46" would overpower and dominate the room visually when turned off, which was not something that I personally wanted to live with.

And the reality is, that how 'big' a screen appears, is directly affected by how close you choose to sit to it.

However, it sounds from your comments, that you need a bigger screen, in which case, within the B&O portfolio I would recommend the BV11 - which has the same digital chassis and surround processor as the V1, but with some enhancements (7.1 as against 5.1 for example) and with an even better speaker/amplification array as regards the active centre channel, and with the glass 'visionclear' contrast screen, a perceptibly better picture. Like the V1, it is also wall mountable with a variety of mounting/motorised options.

Bear in mind you may not like a B&O solution, (albeit if you love the Beoplay A9 I'm fairly confident you will as it offers a very nice 'taste' of the B&O experience), as so much in choosing kit is so very personal, but for an AV system that offers state of the art performance, combined with timless and classic, modern design, it's pretty hard to beat as an overall ownership proposition IMHO & E, for the music and film lover who wants a system free from the usual attendant audiophile anxities and obsessions about 'mixing and matching' separates etc, relevant though that is to the home audio hobbyist/enthusiast, for whom the mix and matching etc is all a part of the hobby and understandable enjoyment thereof.

HTH

JMac...

 

[WishTree]

(actually, I'm not so sure full range and wall-mountable go together in one sentence... )

EDIT: maybe a B&O TV + 2 x BeoLab 3 + BeoLab 11: all wall-mountable. The BeoLab11 is hardly a subwoofer though (33Hz at -10dB).

You are right on that part about the oxymoronic requirement I have.. i.e., Wall-mountable full range!

Beolab 3 is something that is more reasonable from wall-mount perpsective but then my head is still filled with old school thoughts.. like the heft of the speakers, physical size of the drivers, class of amplification, type of transformer etc. And from that perspective, I still feel that a 4" driver when claimed to go down up to 50Hz when the entire speaker (with amplifiers) is weighting 2.6Kg, seems to be a tall claim. :wall:

I know an audition can help evaluation better, but I have realized several times that though everything sounds right during audition, at home things are different. Even after home audition also, living with a speaker for few weeks to a month, then slowly things get more evident, atleast to me. :wall: :wall:

So that is when the two year re-do thought helps out :beer: So I seek opinions, short-list, audition, home audition, buy and change if needed or otherwise

Option 4:

Oppo BDP-105D + Beolab 3 + center + Sub (possibly different brand)

 

[WishTree]

However, it sounds from your comments, that you need a bigger screen, in which case, within the B&O portfolio I would recommend the BV11 - which has the same digital chassis and surround processor as the V1, but with some enhancements (7.1 as against 5.1 for example) and with an even better speaker/amplification array as regards the active centre channel, and with the glass 'visionclear' contrast screen, a perceptibly better picture. Like the V1, it is also wall mountable with a variety of mounting/motorised options.

If there is money involved, I would go with B&O solution with respect to TV for sure! I have looked at BV11 and when I saw the price, my heart /purse :help:

Good to know that Beolab 9 is not wall mountable. Well, not really that good news for me but let me see what other half makes out of it!

As I was mentioning in my previous post, the main reason I am excited about Beolab 9 (as well as Beoplay A9) is that the size of the woofers that are built into the set ups. with a 10" subwoofer + cross over + Amp into each speaker already sounds like a recipe for great bass integration.

This is exactly the oppositve of the Beolab 8000 series as well as the new 18 or other products, IMO. There are some pure life style products and do their best to give reasonable good sound but there are some over achievers in their prodcut range (like the 9 or Beoplay A9). As HiFi enthusiasts, it is up to us to spot them (though depends on individual preferences) and go for them or look elsewhere if the compromise is too much.

In the KEF R series, I think R700 is brilliant or 804D in the entire B&W speakers range - both of them speaking from price to performance from my view point.

Once I do auditions, I will keep us posted!

 

[WishTree]

Just to keep the thread more organized, I am summarizing below the options that I will be considering

Option 1:

Oppo BDP-105D with Beolab 9 and possible one of their active center speakers

Option 2:

Oppo BDP-105D with Genelec G3

Option 3:

Oppo BDP-105D with Adam Artist 6 + Artist 6H

Option 4:

Oppo BDP-105D + Beolab 3 + center + Sub (possibly different brand)

 

[markiedee]

I'm surprised there's been no mention of the beolab 17 that bookshelf speaker sounds astonishing, the bass delivery on those are beyond words each speaker is 160 watts and has a number of different mounting options.

i literally had demo yesterday and left in awe on how rich deep and involving the sound quality was. Have you also considered the beolab 14s ??

 

[richardw42]

Are the Genelec in walls an option ?

 

[ID.]

Some interesting propositions in here. Sorry, nothing to contribute myself other than general encouragement. Looking forward to reading about the auditioning of some of these products, particularly the B&O and Adam Audio.