£4/6K Budget for Amp and Speakers?

[Witterings]

If you were starting from scratch and had a £4/6k budget for Amp and Speakers what combos would you be looking at?

One absolute ..... the Amp must have AV/HT Bypass ... nice to haves would be digital in / decent DAC but really not essential.
Other notes would be, don't like bright, prefer richer / warmer and love tight / punchy and detail of instruments.
It's quite a large room / open plan area so really looking for floorstanders rather than bookshelf / standmount as I've tried some in there and they just don't enough air.

Would consider both new and 2nd hand.

 

[gasolin]

active speakers ?

Room size ?

Eve audio Sc 208 ?

EVE Audio SC208 - 200W 2-way 8'' Studio Monitor with AMT Tweeter & DSP Control

Active midfield studio monitor with 8'' SilverCone honeycomb-structured woofer, AMT RS2 ribbon tweeter, DSP control, 150W + 50W PWM amplifiers, one-knob operation.

eve-audio.de

just under 1200 for a pair https://www.thomann.de/gb/eve_audio_sc208.htm

 

[jjbomber]

One absolute ..... the Amp must have AV/HT Bypass ...

That's not how the forum works! Queue loads of replies without this feature!

 

[Al ears]

Parasound Halo Hint 6 with speakers to suit your room....., And yes it has this feature!

 

[plastic penguin]

Keep the Rubis and just buy the Tucana Anniversary edition.

 

[Witterings]

active speakers ?

Room size ?

Eve audio Sc 208 ?

EVE Audio SC208 - 200W 2-way 8'' Studio Monitor with AMT Tweeter & DSP Control

Active midfield studio monitor with 8'' SilverCone honeycomb-structured woofer, AMT RS2 ribbon tweeter, DSP control, 150W + 50W PWM amplifiers, one-knob operation.

eve-audio.de

just under 1200 for a pair https://www.thomann.de/gb/eve_audio_sc208.htm

Room size is 15 x 26 feet and no definitely not actice as need to work with an AVR as well but thanks for the suggestion.

 

[RoA]

Whatever you get, I would probably factor in one or, in time, two good, fast subwoofers, even with floor standers. That is a sizeable room.

As to amplifiers, Hegel do quality ones which I can personally recommend and you can configure AV/bypass. Speakers ... whatever suits the room. - Hegel's drive pretty much anything and are neutral not clinical.

 

[nopiano]

What does AV/HT bypass actually bring you? I’m unsure if it means you can play your TV or Sky (say) through the Hifi. Or your send some other signal out of the amp.

 

[Al ears]

What does AV/HT bypass actually bring you? I’m unsure if it means you can play your TV or Sky (say) through the Hifi. Or your send some other signal out of the amp.

See here, funnily enough the first photo is the Parasound Halo Hint 6....

Home theater (HT) bypass explained (Combine Stereo & surround sound) | DIY HomeTronics

Home theater bypass or HT bypass is a line-level input connection on high-end preamps or integrated amps that bypasses their audio processing and compression for…

diyhometronics.com

 

[twinkletoes]

Room size is 15 x 26 feet and no definitely not actice as need to work with an AVR as well but thanks for the suggestion.

Some actives would work when the amp is purely used in pre-amp mode, nearly all AVR's can do this.

For example, ATCs and a pre would work just fine or a dac with a volume control like an RME for example. So i wouldn't rule them out entirely. It would certainly cut down of the complexity of AV by pass.


To your original question!

15x26 isn't actually really all that big, still, i'd be looking toward some very efficient speakers such as klipsch heritage series, a pair of Forte 4's would do the trick in a space like that, amp wise something rich will be needed 40 watts would rock your world with speakers this efficient. I would say class A but I can't think of any with AVbypass.

Can't think of many off the top of my head with that feature.

maybe Hegal and MF a lot of the class D/digital amps probably do this

oh Arcam must be able to do this.

 

[Al ears]

Arcams can have HDMI eArc connection, not AV bypass as far as I know.

 

[RoA]

Arcams can have HDMI eArc connection, not AV bypass as far as I know.

They do

https://www.audioadvice.com/arcam-sa20-integrated-amplifier

 

[Al ears]

They do

https://www.audioadvice.com/arcam-sa20-integrated-amplifier

Aha, I was looking bat SA30....

 

[RoA]

Aha, I was looking bat SA30....

The 30 does too. They call it Processor mode

The only thing I would say is that whilst I very much like the SA20 it has a very full bass. It lacks a little bit of the control of the Hegel and I heard the SA30 has a similar sound. If the OP considers this amplifier I would advise a home trial or at least try it with your chosen speakers. The SA30 also has DIRAC which will help address some room issues.

 

[Al ears]

The 30 does too. They call it Processor mode

Designed to confuse obviously....
OK, so include modern Arcam amps....

 

[Witterings]

Some actives would work when the amp is purely used in pre-amp mode, nearly all AVR's can do this.

For example, ATCs and a pre would work just fine or a dac with a volume control like an RME for example. So i wouldn't rule them out entirely. It would certainly cut down of the complexity of AV by pass.


To your original question!

15x26 isn't actually really all that big, still, i'd be looking toward some very efficient speakers such as klipsch heritage series, a pair of Forte 4's would do the trick in a space like that, amp wise something rich will be needed 40 watts would rock your world with speakers this efficient. I would say class A but I can't think of any with AVbypass.

Can't think of many off the top of my head with that feature.

maybe Hegal and MF a lot of the class D/digital amps probably do this

oh Arcam must be able to do this.

I don't know why I'd totally discounted Actives thinking it couldn't be made to work but as you rightly say it can and means I wouldn't need the amplifier as well as the AVR so will have a look at.
Only bit I'm not sure how you'd get it to work is the "set level" when using them as the fronts with the AVR.

Aren't Klipsch generally considered as really quite bright / forward, I've seen numerous comments about them being used very loud for heavy metal?

Just a summary of why I started this thread, I've currently got the Arcam SA30 and at the moment Focal Aria 926's and have been trying various other speakers with the amp but seem to be chasing my tail and going round in circles and just not quite finding a combination that's right.

I thought I'd try a different approach and see if I could get recommendations of combinations people are running themselves and are happy with or known / recognised combinations that work well and generally have quite a warm rather than bright / forward sound with a view to possibly selling what I have and starting from scratch.

 

[RoA]

What is it you don't like about your current system?

 

[Witterings]

What is it you don't like about your current system?

Overall the detail of the speakers / current setup is superb but they don't have a "warm" sound and are "thin" on the lower mid to bottom end.
I walk from my kitchen / living area where I've just a little Denon M39 with a pair of Elac B5.2's, which have a lovely rich overall sound into the lounge where the Arcam / Focal's are playing and it's just lacking warmth / depth and bass and if I turn the volume down very low it becomes much thinner again.

To compare them with other speakers I've tried at home:

Monitor Audio Silver 300's, much, much richer and warmer in the lower ranges and much better at lower volume but elevated recordings and they become extremly harsh / unforgiving like the fingernails down a blackboard.

Acoustic Eenergy AE109's, generally presented as a smaller speaker although a "punchier" bass and overall warmer but really lacked detail in comparison to the extent it almost felt like a couple of the mixes had been muted out .... If I wasn't using these on a back to back comparison I possibly wouldn't have noticed the detail so much and would have really liked them. They were no better at low volumes.

In store with my Amp I very briefly heard a pair of Spendor A4's, my initail thoughts were amazing.
The vocals were very full and rich but I played Freya Ridings - Lost Without You and when the piano came in the vocals really drowned it out. I possibly should of spent more time with these and listening to several more tracks but it literally was just a quick 3 minutes whilst I was at the store.

I don't really want to continue spending lots of time going to, picking up, bringing home, trialling and then packing everythng up again and taking it back .... or spending £80 as I had to getting the MA's back to the shop insured.

Someone may suggest some really good speakers but that may be paired with their system and they may not play well with the Arcam hence why looking for recommendations for a combination.

 

[twinkletoes]

[/QUOTE]

I don't know why I'd totally discounted Actives thinking it couldn't be made to work but as you rightly say it can and means I wouldn't need the amplifier as well as the AVR so will have a look at.
Only bit I'm not sure how you'd get it to work is the "set level" when using them as the fronts with the AVR.

Aren't Klipsch generally considered as really quite bright / forward, I've seen numerous comments about them being used very loud for heavy metal?

Just a summary of why I started this thread, I've currently got the Arcam SA30 and at the moment Focal Aria 926's and have been trying various other speakers with the amp but seem to be chasing my tail and going round in circles and just not quite finding a combination that's right.

I thought I'd try a different approach and see if I could get recommendations of combinations people are running themselves and are happy with or known / recognised combinations that work well and generally have quite a warm rather than bright / forward sound with a view to possibly selling what I have and starting from scratch.

It’s very much a misconception, my heresy 3s and cornwalls are as sweet as a nut. Not smooth but detailed sure with the wrong amp they can be come brittle and if feed to much power that can happen 30-40watts is really all they need . They’re not just rock speakers, though they do it really well. What they do really really well is real instruments so jazz, folk, classic, rock human voice fraya ridings sound spectacular. Anything real basically . I certainly wouldn’t discourage you from looking for the sake of a quite audition a

To get a flavour of use I use mine with sugden, chord qutest and a technic 1200g with a m2 bronze Still experimenting with phono amps. Oh and blusound and really old nad c540.

As i say look into the active options

 

[RoA]

Overall the detail of the speakers / current setup is superb but they don't have a "warm" sound and are "thin" on the lower mid to bottom end.
I walk from my kitchen / living area where I've just a little Denon M39 with a pair of Elac B5.2's, which have a lovely rich overall sound into the lounge where the Arcam / Focal's are playing and it's just lacking warmth / depth and bass and if I turn the volume down very low it becomes much thinner again.

To compare them with other speakers I've tried at home:

Monitor Audio Silver 300's, much, much richer and warmer in the lower ranges and much better at lower volume but elevated recordings and they become extremly harsh / unforgiving like the fingernails down a blackboard.

Acoustic Eenergy AE109's, generally presented as a smaller speaker although a "punchier" bass and overall warmer but really lacked detail in comparison to the extent it almost felt like a couple of the mixes had been muted out .... If I wasn't using these on a back to back comparison I possibly wouldn't have noticed the detail so much and would have really liked them. They were no better at low volumes.

In store with my Amp I very briefly heard a pair of Spendor A4's, my initail thoughts were amazing.
The vocals were very full and rich but I played Freya Ridings - Lost Without You and when the piano came in the vocals really drowned it out. I possibly should of spent more time with these and listening to several more tracks but it literally was just a quick 3 minutes whilst I was at the store.

I don't really want to continue spending lots of time going to, picking up, bringing home, trialling and then packing everythng up again and taking it back .... or spending £80 as I had to getting the MA's back to the shop insured.

Someone may suggest some really good speakers but that may be paired with their system and they may not play well with the Arcam hence why looking for recommendations for a combination.

Yes, it's c when you fall out of love with a system. Oddly enough that happened to me with my previous two active systems. Very good in some ways but annoying in a few that meant they had to go. There was also not much I could do to try and match.

Like you say, sometimes a complete re-start may be needed.

 

[Witterings]

Yes, it's c when you fall out of love with a system. Oddly enough that happened to me with my previous two active systems. Very good in some ways but annoying in a few that meant they had to go. There was also not much I could do to try and match.

Like you say, sometimes a complete re-start may be needed.

I'm just frustrated, having decided to upgrade which meant spending more than I ever thought I would on HiFi I hoped I'd be over the moon and just feel disappointed at the moment as I haven't acheived what I'd hoped for.

That said my love of music has gone through the roof and I'll get there eventually.

 

[matthewpianist]

The Musical Fidelity M6Si offers HT bypass and could make a very good buy for you. There's plenty of scope for speaker choice, and you might even want to give those Spendors another chance. Alternatively you could look at similar options from ATC and Harbeth - the MF will happily drive any of them, and you will achieve a nicely balanced and engaging sound.

 

[RoA]

I'm just frustrated, having decided to upgrade which meant spending more than I ever thought I would on HiFi I hoped I'd be over the moon and just feel disappointed at the moment as I haven't acheived what I'd hoped for.

That said my love of music has gone through the roof and I'll get there eventually.

Out of interest, do you think it's a room problem or mis-match? - Did you try and move the whole thing to another room?

I know the SA30 has DIRAC but that can only do so much.

 

[Witterings]

Out of interest, do you think it's a room problem or mis-match? - Did you try and move the whole thing to another room?

I know the SA30 has DIRAC but that can only do so much.

You could possibly be right ... I don't really have another room that I could move it all to, there's a good size kitchen living area but it's tiled floor and possibly the worst acoustic environment to try ... although the above mention M39 & Elac's work OK in there.

I did try Dirac, it tightens things up and the Bass becomes "punchier" but probably not as full which is almost going the wrong way. I also bought a Sub in to try and that certainly helped but wasn't a solution and ideally I want to be able to use without a sub.

The Musical Fidelity M6Si offers HT bypass and could make a very good buy for you.

Funnily enopugh, that was the 1st amp I looked at, right at the beginning of this journey, funny if it went fulll circle and I ended up back where I started

Re the Spendors .... I've spent a bit of time today going through forums seeing what comments I could find about the A4's and A7'stoday, I can't find a bad word said about them.
I'm thinking I may go to a dealers and ask them to pair those with their recommended amp for a demo and see what I think.
If I like them, bring the speakers home and try them with my current amp knowing if I'm not happy with it I can get the amp they used for the demo.

 

[Al ears]

You could possibly be right ... I don't really have another room that I could move it all to, there's a good size kitchen living area but it's tiled floor and possibly the worst acoustic environment to try ... although the above mention M39 & Elac's work OK in there.

I did try Dirac, it tightens things up and the Bass becomes "punchier" but probably not as full which is almost going the wrong way. I also bought a Sub in to try and that certainly helped but wasn't a solution and ideally I want to be able to use without a sub.



Funnily enopugh, that was the 1st amp I looked at, right at the beginning of this journey, funny if it went fulll circle and I ended up back where I started

Re the Spendors .... I've spent a bit of time today going through forums seeing what comments I could find about the A4's and A7'stoday, I can't find a bad word said about them.
I'm thinking I may go to a dealers and ask them to pair those with their recommended amp for a demo and see what I think.
If I like them, bring the speakers home and try them with my current amp knowing if I'm not happy with it I can get the amp they used for the demo.

Good idea.
Spendors used to be my go to speakers for audition when I was looking something new.
Then I discovered American and German speakers.....
Seriously, look at Parasound amp and Spendors or Paradigm / Totem speakers