Would NAD C356BEE sound drastically better than Onkyo entry-level AVR with B&W 685 S2?

[ntune]

Those speakers sounds fantastic even with the Onkyo AVR, but someone told me it's just idiotism to drive them with cheap entry level AV-receiver. I'm considering NAD C356BEE as I researched it should suit well with B&W's and has substantial yet tight bass. What I don't get with my current setup is bass that has physical aspect. It SOUNDS deep clean at whole spectrum, but just doesn't pound my chest no matter how loud I play. This is with pure audio mode, and boosting the lower frequency just adds boomyness.

Does this mean that Onkyo isn't capable enough to produce the visceral bass, or is more about room acoustics? Will upgrading to NAD C356BEE just bring the same boomyness due room limitations, or could it bring more physical aspect to the bass with same or even better clarity? I have heard that B&W 685 S2's should be capable enough speakers to produce chest pounding impact in a small room (it's mid-bass frequency AFAIK) so I guess the problem is either with Onkyo being too weak or issue with room acoustics.

How drastic changes I can expect especially in impact and clarity of the bass by upgrading to NAD C356BEE?

 

[gasolin]

Also consider Marantz PM8005 which i think sounds better the any nad 300, although the nad 356 might have higher peak power since marantz doesn't spec peak power

The marantz PM8005 also have a phonostage which the nad C356BEE doesn't have

 

[TrevC]

Those speakers sounds fantastic even with the Onkyo AVR, but someone told me it's just idiotism to drive them with cheap entry level AV-receiver. I'm considering NAD C356BEE as I researched it should suit well with B&W's and has substantial yet tight bass. What I don't get with my current setup is bass that has physical aspect. It SOUNDS deep clean at whole spectrum, but just doesn't pound my chest no matter how loud I play. This is with pure audio mode, and boosting the lower frequency just adds boomyness.

Does this mean that Onkyo isn't capable enough to produce the visceral bass, or is more about room acoustics? Will upgrading to NAD C356BEE just bring the same boomyness due room limitations, or could it bring more physical aspect to the bass with same or even better clarity? I have heard that B&W 685 S2's should be capable enough speakers to produce chest pounding impact in a small room (it's mid-bass frequency AFAIK) so I guess the problem is either with Onkyo being too weak or issue with room acoustics.

How drastic changes I can expect especially in impact and clarity of the bass by upgrading to NAD C356BEE?

I doubt that it would sound all that different with a different amp. If you want chest pounding bass buy a sub, something like a BK XLS400.

 

[Electro]

I would say the Nad would make a worthwhile improvement to bass impact with you speakers.

It is unlikely that you will get any more bass depth but you should notice a marked improvement in bass impact and control due to the higher current output and far superior transient power delivery that the Nad can deliver, it will preserve the transient peaks with far less distortion .

 

[gasolin]

Here is a review of the speaker, as you can see theres not much bass under 100hz and its very linear with a slightly soft top, some say marantz have a bit bright clear top,sound (which the speakers should handle fine without sound to bright) and the PM8005 which i use, have a good full bodied bass,bottom that is not at all boomy,muddy, also mabye closer to a corner/wall would giv a few db more bass

http://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/bw_685_s2_loudspeakers_review_test_lores.pdf

 

[bigboss]

Surely, if you need more bass, you need a subwoofer? *SCRATCH*

Changing your amp won't help, even if you go for a flagship one.

 

[NS496]

I use a B&W 610xp sub with my 685 s2's... It sounds good, but beware that integrating a sub with the overall sound can be challenging, and can be music-dependent. Sometimes sub settings that sounds good on one recording, can sound boomy on another and so forth, but when you get the sub settings right it can sound very satisfying. Would probably try a sub before changing the amp.

for fast and accurate bass make sure you have PROPER solid speaker stands, the 685's sound 'muddy' on a shelf.

 

[jjbomber]

Those speakers sounds fantastic even with the Onkyo AVR, but someone told me it's just idiotism to drive them with cheap entry level AV-receiver.

You could add a power amp as long as the AV has line outs.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Would

 

[Blackdawn]

To the op, i would look at getting either a sub or larger speakers than you have already.

 

[Native_bon]

AM I missing something?.. A speaker either gives you enough bass or it does not. Now I don't mean to spoil anyones day, but the new B&W series are some worth lacking in the bass department. This is not the first, second or third time people complain of lack of bass with these speakers. Don't get me wrong, cause these may be the type of clean sound some are looking for. These are not for people who need in the chest kind of bass. When I auditioned the floor standing versions I could not listen for less than 5mins & off they went.

If you looking for bass impact these are not the type of speakers to buy in the first place. Getting a better amp may improve things, but don't think will produce the kind of bass the fellow wishes for. Adding sub may be the right option. This option needs a lot of time & effort to get right.

Have you got the option of xchange for another speaker, if not speak to your dealer to audition the Nad & a sub & make your choice. If you can xchange the speakers better still.

 

[ntune]

For getting a subwoofer, I have SVS SB-2000 but I prefer keep it off, as it just sounds muddy in my small room. Setting it's gain higher than what B&W already produces in bass department doesn't actually add physical impact but boomy and unpleasant sound. It's only good for below 35 Hz, but chest punch is mid/upper bass anyway. I heard it doesn't need much to get that physical aspect if the synenergy through the spectrum is balanced. I have heard a system myself, where you can feel the music at relatively low volume without subwofoower. Also, when I look this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9LdIflkVgw

It seems to kick pretty nicely, and he told me it's only 25% volume. I have never seen my speakers work anywhere like this even I play at +50% volume with Onkyo

 

[manicm]

AM I missing something?.. A speaker either gives you enough bass or it does not. Now I don't mean to spoil anyones day, but the new B&W series are some worth lacking in the bass department. This is not the first, second or third time people complain of lack of bass with these speakers. Don't get me wrong, cause these may be the type of clean sound some are looking for. These are not for people who need in the chest kind of bass. When I auditioned the floor standing versions I could not listen for less than 5mins & off they went.

If you looking for bass impact these are not the type of speakers to buy in the first place. Getting a better amp may improve things, but don't think will produce the kind of bass the fellow wishes for. Adding sub may be the right option. This option needs a lot of time & effort to get right.

Have you got the option of xchange for another speaker, if not speak to your dealer to audition the Nad & a sub & make your choice. If you can xchange the speakers better still.

You are indeed missing something, with the exception of the 684s2, there's not a single review taking issue with either the 685 or 683's bass.

 

[bigboss]

For getting a subwoofer, I have SVS SB-2000 but I prefer keep it off, as it just sounds muddy in my small room. Setting it's gain higher than what B&W already produces in bass department doesn't actually add physical impact but boomy and unpleasant sound. It's only good for below 35 Hz, but chest punch is mid/upper bass anyway.  I heard it doesn't need much to get that physical aspect if the synenergy through the spectrum is balanced. I have heard a system myself, where you can feel the music at relatively low volume without subwofoower. Also, when I look this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9LdIflkVgw

It seems to kick pretty nicely, and he told me it's only 25% volume. I have never seen my speakers work anywhere like this even I play at +50% volume with Onkyo

I'm sure it's down to how you set your subwoofer up.

 

[ntune]

Just got the NAD C326BEE, and wow. Just wow. The difference with Onkyo AVR is like night and day. Even with low volume, the sound is notably more detailed, spacy. More present and immersive. But when I crank the volume up, it's completely different league. Clarity and spaciness doesn't reduce a single bit,, actually opposite. I can feel the energy filling the room, like being in the concert. And i'm not even half way maximum. Theres no sign of the fatiguing edge on the sound experienced with AVR at high volumes. Soundstage keeps wide and smooth. I was pretty skeptical about the significane of amplifier to sound quality/scale, and am very, very pleasantly surprised *shok* *yahoo*

 

[Blackdawn]

Great that you like the new NAD. Do you think the bass has improved much sice you changed amps? I'd be careful about turning up the volume too high. You will most likely damage speakers,amp or both.

 

[ntune]

Great that you like the new NAD. Do you think the bass has improved much sice you changed amps? I'd be careful about turning up the volume too high. You will most likely damage speakers,amp or both.

Yes the bass has huge improvement. It's more deep, tight and physical. I guess 12'o clock is still safe, right? It's more than loud enough for my small room

 

[Native_bon]

AM I missing something?.. A speaker either gives you enough bass or it does not. Now I don't mean to spoil anyones day, but the new B&W series are some worth lacking in the bass department. This is not the first, second or third time people complain of lack of bass with these speakers. Don't get me wrong, cause these may be the type of clean sound some are looking for. These are not for people who need in the chest kind of bass. When I auditioned the floor standing versions I could not listen for less than 5mins & off they went.

If you looking for bass impact these are not the type of speakers to buy in the first place. Getting a better amp may improve things, but don't think will produce the kind of bass the fellow wishes for. Adding sub may be the right option. This option needs a lot of time & effort to get right.

Have you got the option of xchange for another speaker, if not speak to your dealer to audition the Nad & a sub & make your choice. If you can xchange the speakers better still.

You are indeed missing something, with the exception of the 684s2, there's not a single review taking issue with either the 685 or 683's bass.

Oh well, I will stay missing something then. Reviews are different ball game from owners viewpoint. It may well be the smaller ones are more balanced than the bigger 684s2 which I listened to. Anyway he seems to be happy now, thats all that matters

 

[Electro]

I am glad you are happy with the Nad, they are fantastic amps from a company that is always truthful about the spec of the amps they produce.

They concentrate on getting the power supply right to allow decent current delivery and exceptional transient power output over and above the continuous power ouput which is so important if you want good dynamics.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Surely, if you need more bass, you need a subwoofer? *SCRATCH*

Changing your amp won't help, even if you go for a flagship one.

A proper hifi amp will have big(ger) power capacitors to deliver those all important thumpa-thumps.

An AV receiver usuall presumes there a subwoofer in the mix, and therefore probably won't have said huge power capacitors, certainly at the low end / entry level. Moreover, there may be signal floor cut-offs hard or soft wired into the AV receiver circuitry that cut off very low frequency stuff going to the front, centre or surround speakers, directing them at the presumed to be there sub instead. That is, after all, why surround sound systems come with small speakers and a sub.

A hifi buff, certainly of the old school like me, would rather sell his granny into white slavery than add a sub to a "proper stereo", so "proper stereo" amps usually don't presume there's a sub in the mix. QED a "proper stereo" amp usually delivers better "proper stereo" than an AV receiver.

 

[bigboss]

That's why it's important to set speakers to "large" when setting them up (regardless of size) if you don't have a subwoofer and set it up as a 2.0 system instead of 2.1. AV receivers don't presume anything; it's all in the settings.

 

[ntune]

That's why it's important to set speakers to "large" when setting them up (regardless of size) if you don't have a subwoofer and set it up as a 2.0 system instead of 2.1. AV receivers don't presume anything; it's all in the settings.

That was the case with Onkyo. I set it to 2.0 with front speakers set to large, and pure audio on, also tried Audyssey calibration and what not. Specs states that it's 150W RMS. It's unbeliavable how much more detailed and impactful 50W NAD sounds. I can truly say the improvement by upgrading amp was as drastic as upgrading speakers from Logitech to B&W's. Good proof that watts on the paper isn't everything. Now it's that joy again to find new aspects from familiar songs.

 

[thewinelake.]

Nice to get a story with a happy ending!

 

[rainsoothe]

Nice to get a story with a happy ending!

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