Nad d3020 with B&W 685 s2 or ls50

[NqOcd]

Hi

I've recently been looking to buy a new speaker and amplifier combination after years of mainly using headphones after having kids and wanting to play nice.

I recently had to replace the tv and have an urge to complete the setup with better sound finally. I used to have a Dali Trio 5.1 system that was great for movies but I never managed to tame the sub for music listening. It was always overpowering the wimpy satellites.

I have listened to a few recommended systems but haven't been able to compare all speakers using the same amps. My favourite amp so far was the nad d3020 but I haven't tried it with the 685 s2 or the ls50, but those were my fav speakers thus far. The 685 made me feel I'd never want for a sub, possibly a little boomy. The ls50 sounded more like my headphones a q701s tight bass but not overdone.

What would you recommend? They will be placed on a tv cabinet, not on stands, and very close to a wall. One day I might get a bigger house, but not any time soon.

 

[BigH]

No dont put LS50s ona TV cabinet and near to walls. If you want that set up I would look at wall mounted speakers, maybe Neat Iotas?

 

[Vladimir]

http://www.whathifi.com/neat/iota/review

 

[NqOcd]

Thanks I had a look and the ioata's have very limited distribution here. I found one dealer interstate, and the wholesaler is using a free email address. There is a dealer interstate but I would have to buy blind.

One thing I forgot to mention is I also play guitar and ideally would make the new speakers perform monitor duty from time to time.

 

[NqOcd]

I'm not offended I appreciate it, and was quite aware that not putting anything on stands would make many cringe. Which is the main reason why I posted. I know it's not ideal but how bad could it be?

if I could demo in my own home it would be a no brainer, set them both up and see. Without that there is a lot of guess work on my part. So I appreciate your generosity in sharing your experience

im looking to extend or move house but that probably would be 1 to 2 years away before I would be able to enjoy a new and better room

 

[ID.]

Not ideal placement and both speakers will suffer. The bassier 685s2 will suffer the most, I think. They need some room, and while you can use little desktop stands and take other steps to isolate them so that they perform OK on a cabinet, I think the real killer is being close to the wall. it will tend to make them boomy.

From what I've read even the LS50s like a decent amount of space. I suppose you could buy them and then use the supplied port bungs to try and remedy the boominess until you move/can place them better, but from my experience using port bungs isn't very satisfactory. Sure it reduces the boom, but it affects mid-range performance as well and prevents the speakers from performing as they were designed to.

Maybe the LS50s are the lesser of two evils here, but I think they deserve better amplification to really get the best out of them. Should be OK if used at moderate volumes in smaller rooms.

 

[NqOcd]

Would the front facing port of the 685 s2 help alleviate wall proximity issues?

 

[ID.]

Would the front facing port of the 685 s2 help alleviate wall proximity issues?

I haven't tried the s2 close to walls. It made little difference in its predecessor, the 685. They liked a lot of space irrespective of their front facing port.

 

[rainsoothe]

Not really. Almost all speakers (even sealed box designs) need at least 25-30 cm distance from walls to sound their best, and only speakers designed for wall mounting (or being stuck in a bookshelf, like the Iotas) can go closer. Of course not everyone can accomodate this 30cm distance (I, for one, have one of the speakers pretty close to a side wall), and it's not a deal breaker, but it does affect the sound negatively, so I need to help with equalisation or acoustic treament (like bass traps if the bass is boomy, etc etc). Active studio monitors help in this respect because most come with built in equalisation - for instance, on my desktop system, one of my yamaha monitors is pretty close to a corner, so I cut it's bass 1 step further then on my right one, and the sound is pretty balanced now.

But I digress. The front facing port won't help a lot in that respect, but it might not bother you at all to begin with. Only way to know is to test by auditioning in your home. I think some speakers that are ok with being placed closer to a wall are the Wharfedale 220 (yes, they're in a lower budget range and most likely not as capable as the 685 S2-s), Neat Iotas, Martin Logan Motion 15. XTZ 93.23 mkII might be worth a try as well - you can hometrial those for like 20 days or something. But by all means, audition the B&Ws as well if you can.

 

[davedotco]

The position of the bass port makes no difference unless you have it so close to a wall as to restrict air flow, we are talking about 2 or 3 inches here.

The biggest issue is the modern trend to overhype the bass in most loudspeakers in the budget and mid fi category. They may sound impressive to the inexperienced but they are really just boom boxes as many users find when they get them home.

Matching a speakers bass response to your room is the big trick, get it right and positioning becomes much easier and the very idea of 'bass trapping' becomes irrelevant.

Nothing wrong with 'real' bass response of course, but real extension and control does not come cheap.

 

[NqOcd]

Got the ls50 and due to the short depth was easily able to give it 300mm clearance from the wall which seems quite acceptable without using the bungs.

Amp is a bit more interesting. Great features sounds fantastic at low and moderate volumes but low end disappears when pushed hard. I expected as much but was still surprised how fast it dropped off.

Now I'm considering the yamaha s501. I was fortunate enough audio trends let me demo the floor model over the weekend.

Get the massive brick amp for that one day where I might crank it? Or keep the plucky little guy that sounds great for my usual listening levels and has all the features I want but has little headroom?

Mmmm

 

[NqOcd]

Strongly leaning toward keeping the nad 3020 after listening at realistic volumes again

 

[nopiano]

I'd recommend rethinking your speaker location, as otherwise you are throwing cash away by compromising the sound.

On a TV cabinet, some small £100 speakers are a luxury, or just use a pair of your cinema system. Seriously!

Welcome to the forum, and please don't take this as other than well-intentioned guidance.

 

[nopiano]

I decided to keep the nad d3020 and have been really happy with it.

I definately believe that I could spend more and get better sound, but it's such a great unit, and it seems you have to spend twice as much before there are comparable products with genuine power gains.

Right now if I got a much bigger room or wanted to host some kind of lazy loud party I would be more likely to introduce a sub which engages the high pass filter of the d3020 directing more power to the >=80hz range.

Glad to read you are happy. It seems to be a great little unit, and much more powerful than its modest spec implies.

 

[NqOcd]

Hi

I finally added a sub to my NAD D3020 combo intending to make use of the 80Hz high pass filter.

It doesn't exist. Despite reviews, whitepapers, and even the printed material in the box mentioning the feature, it does not exist.

Confused I checked the NAD site, and the current PDFs make no mention of the feature.

Wanting to get to the bottom of the issue I emailed NAD support and got a response that the feature was remove from the production unit, but after the original print materials had been created. NAD didn't seem very apologetic.

I beleive I was reading about this feature on the NAD site, a year or two after I purchased my D3020, so its not something that was updated very quickly.

I replied stating that I was disappointed and that based on the feature I upgraded my system with a sub rather than upgrading the amp.

NAD replied that I should remedy the situation by selling the D3020 and by a higher end NAD with base management second hand.

Under Australian consumer law, NAD would be forced to allow every owner a full refund and possibly face false advertising fines. I really don't like the way they handled this, and their attitude seems a little 'off'.

Its otherwise a good little amp. The TV Connect feature that was released via firmware update is fantastic as it allows the amp to learn IR signals, which is great for the family as nobody needs to actually use the AMP, it just disapears, and the setup 'just works'.

But this feature was very important in my decision to go with this plucky little amp, I have lost some faith in NAD as a customer, and will be keenly watching for reviews of the Schiit Vidar, and the Klipsch Powergate MAX amps. Or maybe just be done with the whole amp thing and trade it all in for a pair of active LS50s.

 

[newlash09]

So unfair on NAD's part to casually brush aside their fault. Really sorry for you here...

Did you buy from a dealer or from an online vendor.

Can you send an email to NAD, and convey how disappointed you are. And try to persuade them to exchange the NAD for a bluesound power node 2. This is also a NAD product, and the dealer might also be stocking it. Basically has the same direct digital amplification as the D3020 but slightly more powerful. Should have the same sound. Comes with app control and sub woofer out with 80hz cross over.

When I was looking for speakers for my blue sound powernode gen 1, someone suggested going for the LS50 , as it sounds beautiful with them.

The powernode 2 will be more expensive than the NAD, but you might loose more by selling the NAD. All the best, and let us know how you get on with this.

 

[Al ears]

Hi

I finally added a sub to my NAD D3020 combo intending to make use of the 80Hz high pass filter.

It doesn't exist. Despite reviews, whitepapers, and even the printed material in the box mentioning the feature, it does not exist.

Confused I checked the NAD site, and the current PDFs make no mention of the feature.

Wanting to get to the bottom of the issue I emailed NAD support and got a response that the feature was remove from the production unit, but after the original print materials had been created. NAD didn't seem very apologetic.

I beleive I was reading about this feature on the NAD site, a year or two after I purchased my D3020, so its not something that was updated very quickly.

I replied stating that I was disappointed and that based on the feature I upgraded my system with a sub rather than upgrading the amp.

NAD replied that I should remedy the situation by selling the D3020 and by a higher end NAD with base management second hand.

Under Australian consumer law, NAD would be forced to allow every owner a full refund and possibly face false advertising fines. I really don't like the way they handled this, and their attitude seems a little 'off'.

Its otherwise a good little amp. The TV Connect feature that was released via firmware update is fantastic as it allows the amp to learn IR signals, which is great for the family as nobody needs to actually use the AMP, it just disapears, and the setup 'just works'.

But this feature was very important in my decision to go with this plucky little amp, I have lost some faith in NAD as a customer, and will be keenly watching for reviews of the Schiit Vidar, and the Klipsch Powergate MAX amps. Or maybe just be done with the whole amp thing and trade it all in for a pair of active LS50s.

If you are in Australia why don't you point this out to them??

 

[NqOcd]

I bought it from a local vendor, the same vendor I picked up my recent sub purchase from.

They probably would take care of me, but I feel for them; I have had the unit for years now and its otherwise a rad little amp.

I did tell NAD how upset I was which was when they replied that I should buy one of their top teir amps second hand.

Thanks for the suggestion regards the powernode 2, I checked the docs and can't see a reference to the 80hz high cut when using Sub Out. I imagine it might be the same deal with the powernode 2 as with the D3020, in that the promised feature never made it and the manuals were quietly revised at some point to remove reference to the feature.

 

[NqOcd]

Al ears I might.

The process is Aus is all about whats reasonable so its not always clear cut.

Ultimately the ACCC would state the relationship is between myself and the retailer, and its the retailer who has to remedy the situation.

A missing advertised feature would likely fall under "severe fault" and/or "goods not fit for which they were sold" and merit a full refund. Though this might be countered by the length of time for which I have been enjoying good service from the device. If the retailer refused the ACCC would send a letter, potentially initiating legal action to determine a fine if the retailer was a repeat offender.

All of this potentially requires a lot of back and forth and a lot of time and negative energy exchausted between the consumer and the retailer.

NAD only then has to deal with the relationship with the retailer.

I'm on the fence right now about what to do going forward. NAD have been a little slimy here, but I'd be stomping the retailer to get a remedy. If I had just bought it, it would be going back no doubt about it.

 

[NqOcd]

I decided to keep the nad d3020 and have been really happy with it.

I definately believe that I could spend more and get better sound, but it's such a great unit, and it seems you have to spend twice as much before there are comparable products with genuine power gains.

Right now if I got a much bigger room or wanted to host some kind of lazy loud party I would be more likely to introduce a sub which engages the high pass filter of the d3020 directing more power to the >=80hz range. UPDATE: Nope, this feature was advertised but doesn't exist!

 

[Leif]

A more forceful letter to NAD explaining the situation and stating that you think that it is not right that you will be forced to buy new gear because the amp is not as described in the literature might well get a positive response. Generally they will just write a polite letter at first. You could write to the most senior person in your country, or even to the head of NAD expressing your anger. Being pushy but polite tends to get results. One problem of course is that they might not want to set a precedent if they sold lots under false pretences.

To be honest I would class this as fraud. I once bought a laptop advertised as having a built in modem. It didn't. This was the shop's fault. This was in Canada and although it was not as described, the Napoleonic law meant that I had to reach an agreement with the shop, which meant accepting an external modem. I would never have bought it with an external modem, so I feel I was done, but Napoleonic law in Quebec was weak as far as consumers were concerned.

 

[Pedro]

The whole situation is just appaling and NAD's reply is disgusting. Almost seems they're having a laugh. I just read WHF's review and of course there's no mention to the filter. I'd contact every single magazine that reviewed the amp and explain the situation and I would certainly write do NAD again. It's not only under Australian law that you would be entitled to a full refund.