Wiim Ultra

[njprrogers]

This looks like a pretty exciting product. It is the idea of room correction that really appeals as that seems like the next logical upgrade in my own system.

I wonder what price point this will arrive at.

WiiM Ultra To Launch At High End Munich 2024 | Hifi Pig

High End Munich 2024 - The new WiiM Ultra will launch officially at High End Munich 2024

www.hifipig.com

P.S. Just checked and they are asking customers here what they would consider a fair price https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/wiim-ultra-launch-price.3391/ Interesting to note that the highest price they suggest is 449 euros / GBP

 

[Rodolfo]

I just use a 12-year-old Surface Pro to stream my FLAC files and Amazon account plays to my bluetooth-equipped integrated amp. I especially like the much-larger screen accessing my software and situated on a little wired side-table next to my favorite easy-chair listening station. But, these WiiM devices sure have excited and satisfied a lot of What Hi-Fi forum members for years.

 

[Al ears]

This looks like a pretty exciting product. It is the idea of room correction that really appeals as that seems like the next logical upgrade in my own system.

I wonder what price point this will arrive at.

WiiM Ultra To Launch At High End Munich 2024 | Hifi Pig

High End Munich 2024 - The new WiiM Ultra will launch officially at High End Munich 2024

www.hifipig.com

P.S. Just checked and they are asking customers here what they would consider a fair price https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/wiim-ultra-launch-price.3391/ Interesting to note that the highest price they suggest is 449 euros / GBP

If they are asking what to charge then they can obviously produce it for much less than the lowest price quoted.
Which says a lot for component costs etc.
If they can actually produce a good quality dac / streamer / preamp with an excellent phono stage built in for that price then good on them. Personally I think it will obviously be lacking in some department.

 

[jy999]

Cool. I like my WiiM Pro and mini, and I also have been considering room correction. I'll be watching this closely!

 

[My2Cents]

I wouldn't get too excited about a device having room correction included as a feature.
It's become a 'thing' recently simply because it's become cheap to integrate and can be added to the list of product features.
Most cheap 'low level' correction software (e.g. Yamaha YPAO lowest tier) uses a cheap microphone and all the software does is create a high pass filter around 40Hz and a slight eq scoop around 300-500 Hz.

Room correction should only be considered after the room has been treated.

There are different levels of correction software and the good stuff is very expensive and uses expensive microphones. The initial correction process set up and measuring with these high end systems is also quite time consuming.
You would be better off with a few acoustic panels and some bass traps carefully placed in you listening room than cheap correction software built into a $500 amplifier.

 

[jy999]

@My2Cents , I'm not really a fan of you coming in here and using knowledge and logic to dash our dreams

I recall when my old Yamaha receiver, ages ago, came with YPAO - I enjoyed the distance measurement and speaker volume balancing, especially since my speakers at the time were pretty mismatched. I had assumed things had come a long way and would do some magic to help offset room issues...

 

[My2Cents]

@My2Cents , I'm not really a fan of you coming in here and using knowledge and logic to dash our dreams

I recall when my old Yamaha receiver, ages ago, came with YPAO - I enjoyed the distance measurement and speaker volume balancing, especially since my speakers at the time were pretty mismatched. I had assumed things had come a long way and would do some magic to help offset room issues...

Sorry... just my 2 cents LOL
It has come a long way with regards to high end studio control room correction, but they still try to get the room correct with treatment first.
I have a new Yamaha with YPAO and to be honest (although I have done the calibration) I don't really use it that much, I mostly use 'pure direct'.
These Auralex LENRD's are really good but are a bit pricey at $600 for 4.

 

[njprrogers]

Yeah it could be too good to be true. But unlike most hifi companies Wiim are as much a software company and room correction is software. So let's see what they got, the proof of the pudding is in the eating 😉

 

[My2Cents]

Yeah it could be too good to be true. But unlike most hifi companies Wiim are as much a software company and room correction is software. So let's see what they got, the proof of the pudding is in the eating 😉

What they've got is the application of a basic eq curve, just like everybody else.
The D&D / production cost money used to incorporate the feature could be used to improve another part of the product or just reduce the final sales price.
But features 'sell' a product as much as anything else and so, if they can incorporate it for a predicted retail price point per unit of say $499 they will.
If you buy a piece of gear that is Dirac compatible (NAD, Marantz, Arcam etc.), the full frequency Dirac software license is $350 and the puck microphone that is supplied by the AV manufacturer is really just junk.
A decent measurement mic. is at the very least 200 bucks.

 

[njprrogers]

My assumption was that you would pick up a U-MIK separately and use it but maybe not. No details yet on whether it comes with a mic. If it is through the phone app, that is highly unlikely to be good.

 

[twinkletoes]

I'd say its pointless upgrade if you have a wiim pro plus, it's likely got the same dac and output stage in side . And you use your phone to navigate the media/setup functions anyhow, so what purpose does the screen serve on any of these units.

There will probably be a firmware update for pro plus in regards to EQ

 

[daveh75]

Think I've mentioned it before, but I'm fast going off Wiim for keep pumping out all these models in quick succession.

That approach just gives me 'throw it at the wall and see what sticks' vibes and wonder what it means for ongoing support for all these devices.

 

[Revolutions]

Think I've mentioned it before, but I'm fast going off Wiim for keep pumping out all these models in quick succession.

That approach just gives me 'throw it at the wall and see what sticks' vibes and wonder what it means for ongoing support for all these devices.

I think they are being v deliberate in what they release, esp considering how each one is a small upgrade on the previous model. There was some discussion in another thread- along with Fosi, seems like the models are being produced & priced to try and get their customers to try out every upgrade.

Your point about ongoing support is an interesting one - as long as they run on the same software/app it should be ok if the units last. I can’t see how it’ll be feasible to maintain stock for spare parts when they have 20 products that do the same thing with different parts.

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

Argument could be that, at the price point, a shorter shelf life is acceptable? Perhaps moreso amongst their target audience?

I'm thinking of the person who upgrades their iPhone / hi end Android phone regularly and is prepared to take a substantial loss of value on that won't care too much about upgrading a WiiM product and suffering 100-250 of loss?

 

[twinkletoes]

The above is why I bought the semi basic model. I have a dac thats going to hopefully last the long haul. If it last 5 years then I think thats funds well spent, it doesn't even work out a penny a day.

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

Likewise, WiiM mini into a Topping E30 II DAC. £200 "investment" as such.

 

[njprrogers]

I'd say its pointless upgrade if you have a wiim pro plus, it's likely got the same dac and output stage in side . And you use your phone to navigate the media/setup functions anyhow, so what purpose does the screen serve on any of these units.

There will probably be a firmware update for pro plus in regards to EQ

It has a better DAC. They won't say which till release.

 

[njprrogers]

I think their release strategy is fine. Continuous improvement and moving up the chain.
If they release a dud, I'd probably think differently but each new product has been an improvement on the one before and the software is really good.

 

[record_spot]

Room correction should only be considered after the room has been treated.

Most people, I'd guess, aren't going to "treat" their room. I certainly haven't done in the past, never had the desire to. My stereo fits in around the rest of my life, not dominate it with additional wall or ceiling bass traps, etc. Really never been interested in it.

And the stereo sounds great. Yes, I know the "you're not hearing it at its full potential..." etc, but that's neither here nor there. What I hear is excellent and how I want it to in my living space. I'd guess plenty of others are of a similar mindset. Quite possibly the Significant Others' too probably!

 

[record_spot]

Wiim recently issued a survey on pricing for the Ultra - either £/$349 / 399 / 449 - no idea what the response was. I think £349/399 would be a good option, but I'm not hugely convinced Wiim are clear on what they want this product to be - seems a bit muddled - streamer, DAC, phono stage too, preamp...I wonder if this is a stepping stone product and the next one will be closer to a settled design.

 

[manicm]

Wiim recently issued a survey on pricing for the Ultra - either £/$349 / 399 / 449 - no idea what the response was. I think £349/399 would be a good option, but I'm not hugely convinced Wiim are clear on what they want this product to be - seems a bit muddled - streamer, DAC, phono stage too, preamp...I wonder if this is a stepping stone product and the next one will be closer to a settled design.

It's not muddled. Many DAC/Streamers can operate as a preamp too. Example is the Cambridge Audio CXN 100. Or a multitude of others.

The selling point of the Ultra is the superior DAC chip over Wiim's other streamers.

349 quid does seem a bit high though, but the proof is in the hearing.

 

[record_spot]

It's not muddled. Many DAC/Streamers can operate as a preamp too. Example is the Cambridge Audio CXN 100. Or a multitude of others.

The selling point of the Ultra is the superior DAC chip over Wiim's other streamers.

349 quid does seem a bit high though, but the proof is in the hearing.

You're comparing a yet-to-be-priced midget sized streamer, with a full size network player, of substantially higher build quality costing at least double and possibly getting on for not far off three times as much? The CXN doesn't have a phono stage, not surprisingly and it does have a digital preamp for use with actives.

I'm aware that streamers can operate as preamps thanks, I've had one in the shape of the diminutive Arylic S10 for a few years now, and it's very limited. That doesn't let you hook up to a DAC, as it doesn't have that capability. Just straight out to a pair of speakers.

The phono stage is out of place in the Ultra IMO as it stands as a budget streamer. It'd make more sense for them to develop a DSD, HDMI (not just HDMI ARC), or maybe an I2S input within the digital realm, or, instead, go the whole hog and go upmarket. As it stands, it feels looks like they're still working out what they think people want. Hence, muddled.

You think differently? Good for you.

And if it's going to sound better than the Pro Plus or Mini on their own, that shouldn't be difficult as on their own, they sound okay, but not much more. The DAC's important, but it's not the be-all and end-all. Routing the Pro Plus through the DACMagic 200M takes it to an entirely different level. Major step up.

Academic for me though as a happy Pro Plus user. No need at the moment to change that source.

 

[manicm]

You're comparing a yet-to-be-priced midget sized streamer, with a full size network player, of substantially higher build quality costing at least double and possibly getting on for not far off three times as much? The CXN doesn't have a phono stage, not surprisingly and it does have a digital preamp for use with actives.

I'm aware that streamers can operate as preamps thanks, I've had one in the shape of the diminutive Arylic S10 for a few years now, and it's very limited. That doesn't let you hook up to a DAC, as it doesn't have that capability. Just straight out to a pair of speakers.

The phono stage is out of place in the Ultra IMO as it stands as a budget streamer. It'd make more sense for them to develop a DSD, HDMI (not just HDMI ARC), or maybe an I2S input within the digital realm, or, instead, go the whole hog and go upmarket. As it stands, it feels looks like they're still working out what they think people want. Hence, muddled.

You think differently? Good for you.

And if it's going to sound better than the Pro Plus or Mini on their own, that shouldn't be difficult as on their own, they sound okay, but not much more. The DAC's important, but it's not the be-all and end-all. Routing the Pro Plus through the DACMagic 200M takes it to an entirely different level. Major step up.

Academic for me though as a happy Pro Plus user. No need at the moment to change that source.

I've always said that a DAC chip is not the end all of a device, but clearly many purchasers of the Pro and Plus are not connecting to an external DAC. The most 'muddled' Wiim product for me is the Amp - the amp section is now widely understood to be compromised once pushed anything towards its limit. That the Ultra will cost around 350 GBP or USD leads me to believe that it will be the best sounding Wiim product to date. And phono stage or not, if its preamp stage is good then it may be a very good value proposition, with a pair of powered or active speakers.