Why would I want a network streamer?

[AndrewF]

Hi. New here, although I have read WHF for a long time. Help me understand why I would or wouldn't want a network streamer.

My set-ups: Very stable home Wifi network. I use exclusively ITunes, streaming via AirPlay from a phone and Ipad. No desktop anymore. Although I have thousands of CD's, I no longer have a dedicated hard drive for music. Everything is streamed, lossless.

I stream to relatively old but perfectly functional Airport Express units, which feed via RCA connections to 2 two-channel audio systems (Naim and Focal gear). I also stream to a Naim Muso 2. I additionally use the Focal/Naim app for internet radio, only to the Naim unit.

The obvious "weak links" here are the Airport Express units, because Apple no longer makes or supports these. Eventually they will likely go, although they work perfectly for the time being.

So- would a network streamer like the new Cambridge units add anything to what I currently have, or just replace the Airport Express units (for a lot more money....)? And I'd need two of them, right?

Thanks!

 

[robdmarsh]

Hi, no one's answered so I thought I'd get in first. To start with, I had iTunes for a long time and thought it was fine (before I heard better and more flexible options) but forgive if I'm wrong but it in those days it definitely wasn't hi-res or even FLAC quality, and I'm sure it isn't now.

So, in answer to your original question, I am firmly of the belief that no, you don't need a dedicated streamer and that is for the following reasons. Firstly, they can be pretty expensive and plenty of manufacturers and people who've bought the expensive options will tell you that you need them. Secondly, streaming over bluetooth these days will give you a good enough sample rate that I think is pretty indistinguishable from "full-fat" hi-res. Most modern mobiles and tablets allow you to stream using LDAC codec, which is worth enabling. The bluetooth receiver/DAC that I have streams HD music from the likes of Amazon in very high quality. I had a "genuine" hi-res streamer/DAC, the Bluesound Node 2021, and I much prefer the SQ of my ifi Zen One signature (which is a bluetooth receiver/DAC). This unit does have various inputs so if you decide you must have a streamer, one can be added down the road. Lastly, you have some pretty good gear from what you said in your post, and the benefits of a high quality DAC I believe far outweigh the need for any dedicated streaming transport in a set up like yours, imho.

 

[AndrewF]

Thank you. ITunes is streaming lossless these days- I imagine there could conceivably be a better streaming option, but these lossless files sound pretty decent to me (and I have been doing a lot of critical listening lately, having picked up some new speakers). I'm sort of tied to Apple because I have uploaded albums/bootlegs that aren't available to the best of my knowledge on other platforms.

 

[robdmarsh]

Thank you. ITunes is streaming lossless these days- I imagine there could conceivably be a better streaming option, but these lossless files sound pretty decent to me (and I have been doing a lot of critical listening lately, having picked up some new speakers). I'm sort of tied to Apple because I have uploaded albums/bootlegs that aren't available to the best of my knowledge on other platforms.

Interesting, it sounds like you've already got a pretty good solution without spending the big bucks that people (and manufacturers) from all sides would try and persuade you to do. Without wanting to sound like a paid rep I think you could still look at something like the ifi Zen range I mentioned above, imho all the products I've used from this company offer incredible bang for buck and are very neat, tidy and beautifully constructed. One slight doubt if you're an Apple user is that I don't know if the best bluetooth codecs are compatible with iPone.

 

[newworld]

Thank you. ITunes is streaming lossless these days- I imagine there could conceivably be a better streaming option, but these lossless files sound pretty decent to me (and I have been doing a lot of critical listening lately, having picked up some new speakers). I'm sort of tied to Apple because I have uploaded albums/bootlegs that aren't available to the best of my knowledge on other platforms.

You cannot stream lossless from iPhone or iPad to Airport Express gen2. However, it is possible to stream lossless from Macbook system Airplay setting (not from Apple Music app) to both Airport Express generations. I've just repurposed my old AE gen2 for casual playing and it works really well. However, both my Bluesound Node 2 and Wiim Mini digital out using either Tidal Connect or their respective app sounds significantly better. Airplay sounds basically the same across all of my devices though.

 

[AndrewF]

You cannot stream lossless from iPhone or iPad to Airport Express gen2. However, it is possible to stream lossless from Macbook system Airplay setting (not from Apple Music app) to both Airport Express generations. I've just repurposed my old AE gen2 for casual playing and it works really well. However, both my Bluesound Node 2 and Wiim Mini digital out using either Tidal Connect or their respective app sounds significantly better. Airplay sounds basically the same across all of my devices though.

well, right you are. Interesting. Fwiw, it sounds awfully nice already- will be interesting to see if it can be improved (over time- I just bought new speakers…).

correct me if I’m wrong, though- the AE2 does support “CD quality”, though?

ok- so, I would need two music streamer boxes to listen to lossless files on Airplay, over Wi-Fi? One for each integrated amp. The Muso 2 does its own thing. Alternatively, does anyone make anything similar to an Aiport 2, but lossless capable?

 

[Vincent Kars]

Have a look at WiiM. Support Airplay2, Chromecast and DLNA. Won't break the bank.

 

[AndrewF]

Have a look at WiiM. Support Airplay2, Chromecast and DLNA. Won't break the bank.

Perfect! Thx.

 

[newworld]

well, right you are. Interesting. Fwiw, it sounds awfully nice already- will be interesting to see if it can be improved (over time- I just bought new speakers…).

correct me if I’m wrong, though- the AE2 does support “CD quality”, though?

ok- so, I would need two music streamer boxes to listen to lossless files on Airplay, over Wi-Fi? One for each integrated amp. The Muso 2 does its own thing. Alternatively, does anyone make anything similar to an Aiport 2, but lossless capable?

Yes, both AE's are capable of lossless, but Wiim Mini does everything and more.

 

[AndrewF]

Well, I've gone from "why do I need a streamer" to "wait a minute, that my 'source' now, so I ought to get a decent one". I'm on the waiting list now for the Cambridge Audio MXN10. There is also a pretty good deal on an open box Cambridge Audio CXN V2- any reason why I would not want to save $600 and just wait for the MXN10? Thought was to get the "good" streamer for my main listening area and replace the Airport Express 2 in the bedroom with a Wiim Pro.

:- )

 

[newworld]

Well, I've gone from "why do I need a streamer" to "wait a minute, that my 'source' now, so I ought to get a decent one". I'm on the waiting list now for the Cambridge Audio MXN10. There is also a pretty good deal on an open box Cambridge Audio CXN V2- any reason why I would not want to save $600 and just wait for the MXN10? Thought was to get the "good" streamer for my main listening area and replace the Airport Express 2 in the bedroom with a Wiim Pro.

:- )

Just make sure you like the operating system of whatever the streamer you will be using. It can end up being a major pain and turn you off from streaming for good. The Cambridge CXN V2 sounded fantastic in my system, but I did not like the software. My favorite to date is the Wiim Mini if you will be using your phone primarily. Also, Wiim's analogue output is not very good, sub par even. But give it a decent DAC, and it is eye-opening.

 

[AndrewF]

I found a good deal on a CXN V2 and ordered it. Basically I use ITunes and Airplay, so I am not super concerned about the software. i read good things though. excited!

 

[AndrewF]

Just in case anyone else is having the same “should I get a good network streamer?” question that I did:

The CXN V2 has transformed my system. I’m blown away at how good it sounds. I can’t compare it to any other streamer, but the combination of Qobuz and a good streamer just does magical things. Im not good at audio descriptions, but the soundstage, imaging, clarity etc are worlds different.

Very pleased to have done this.

 

[BigH]

Yes, both AE's are capable of lossless, but Wiim Mini does everything and more.

Is Wiim gapless? That would be a big issue for me.

 

[SteveR750]

I have big expectations of the NAD CS1, just waiting for it to be delivered in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

I was looking at the Wiim products, but will run analogue out to my Primaluna pre/power. As such, it's probably not for me based on what others have been saying. Like SteveR750, I'm awaiting the NAD release and would love to see it compared with the new product (well two products, albeit same internals) from Cambridge Audio.

 

[Tezza55]

I have the same question.
My current setup is Rega Planar 3. Musical Fidelity A1 amp, Roger LS LS 2a/s speakers. My Marantz CD65 refuses to power on but all my CD's have been ripped to a NAS drive.
I also have a Logitech Bluetooth receiver connect to the aux port on the amp. This allows me to play the ripped cd's through my hifi. I can also stream Spotify and the ripped cd's through my Sonos setup.
Would there be any advantage to me buying a streamer?
Bear in mind that I'm 67 and have listened to loud music on headphone/buds for the last 40 years so my hearing isn't what it was!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I have the same question.

I've got a feeling your Logitech Bluetooth receiver might be identical to this, in all but name (and price):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Adapter-Streaming-Wireless-Speakers/dp/B016NUTG5K/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3VLM74GNSWFKI&keywords=esinkin+bluetooth+receiver&qid=1685745837&sprefix=ensinken%2Caps%2C219&sr=8-4

If it is and you are indeed listening to your CD quality rips via it, then yes, there would be an advantage to you buying a streamer Tezza.

If (when it worked) you compared your CD player to the rips via Bluetooth through your hi-fi system, there's every chance that the Marantz would have sounded better to you.
Depending on the DAC (either built-in, or separate to a streamer), you will almost certainly match and likely improve on the current sound of your CD rips.
The same streamer could also put Spotify, internet radio etc. through your hi-fi.

As for your CDP, that could be a simple fault, say where you're located, there may be someone that can help you with that.
If you don't use it, you may have a customer in this thread:

Question - Marantz CD6003 playback problem.

Hello to everyone, and than you for any help you can give me with my question. I have a 13 year old Marantz CD6003 compact disc player, which I have had no issue with from new until the past fortnight. It has started to not play the 1st track of audio CDRs that I have made on my home PC - both...

forums.whathifi.com

 

[Tezza55]

The Logitech does look the same as the esinkin one.
I'm located in Stourbridge in the Black country.
Thanks for the advice

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Logitech does look the same as the esinkin one.

Then your hearing would have to be very poor for you not to hear the benefit of a streamer.
Might be an idea for you to clue up on what the Wiim Mini and Wiim Pro streamers can do. (They belong to the sensible value category of product - unlike some other standalone streamers).

And your CDP; if you or someone you know, has a multimeter and a bit of knowledge....it's worth lifting the lid.
You might even see a blown 20mm glass fuse.
But without getting too involved, some simple voltage checks might be worthwhile.

If you want to, take a clear internal picture, send it to me in a private message and I might come up with some help.

 

[Tezza55]

Then your hearing would have to be very poor for you not to hear the benefit of a streamer.
Might be an idea for you to clue up on what the Wiim Mini and Wiim Pro streamers can do. (They belong to the sensible value category of product - unlike some other standalone streamers).

And your CDP; if you or someone you know, has a multimeter and a bit of knowledge....it's worth lifting the lid.
You might even see a blown 20mm glass fuse.
But without getting too involved, some simple voltage checks might be worthwhile.

If you want to, take a clear internal picture, send it to me in a private message and I might come up with some help.

The Wiim pro sounds very interesting. Does it play nice with a Synology DS220J?
Not too bothered about the CD player to be honest. All my CD's have been packed away after ripping them. I did open it up the other day to see if the fuse had blown but it looked ok.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Wiim pro sounds very interesting. Does it play nice with a Synology DS220J?

I'd be surprised if it didn't.

 

[Tezza55]

I'd be surprised if it didn't.

Last question (I hope). Do I need a DAC as well?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Last question (I hope). Do I need a DAC as well?

You don't need a separate, external DAC with either of the Wiim streamers Tezza - as they both have them built in.
The Pro has its analogue output on RCA sockets, so just a twin RCA cable would connect it to a line input on your A1 amp.

The Pro has optical and coaxial digital outputs, which can connect to an external DAC if you prefer (meaning that you bypass the internal one).
Most people will tell you that DAC sound differences are subtle - but they are noticeable and Wiim users are saying that the internal DAC can be bettered.

You wouldn't need anything more than the SMSL SU-1 DAC which is what @doifeellucky is happy with.
See post #281 here:

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[manicm]

You don't need a separate, external DAC with either of the Wiim streamers Tezza - as they both have them built in.
The Pro has its analogue output on RCA sockets, so just a twin RCA cable would connect it to a line input on your A1 amp.

The Pro has optical and coaxial digital outputs, which can connect to an external DAC if you prefer (meaning that you bypass the internal one).
Most people will tell you that DAC sound differences are subtle - but they are noticeable and Wiim users are saying that the internal DAC can be bettered.

You wouldn't need anything more than the SMSL SU-1 DAC which is what @doifeellucky is happy with.
See post #281 here:

Page 12 - Question - What's your next HiFi purchase?

Page 12 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.

forums.whathifi.com

The Wiim devices, being low cost, do not have great DACs. And they don't sound their best standalone. Connect them to any decent external DAC, or even an amp with built in DAC, and sonic dividends will be had .

The Wiims make a lot of sense as network streaming transports.