Who has moved from 5.1 to stereo?

[Sliced Bread]

I'm sorry if you've answered these before:

- What sort of music do you listen to? - How much money are you prepared to spend? - I take it that your 2 channel will be in the same room as your AV - What way do you like your 2 channel system to sound?

FWIW. I would rather have a good 2 channel system, than an AV system that is very mediocre with music.

The best way to have both, is attach a good Stereo Amp with HT Bypass, to the Pre-Outs of your AV amp.

Something like a Linn Majik DSM allows 2.1 and has HDMI connectivity.

Hi CNo

I’m probably 50/50 music and films (which is a cop out answer and yes the setup will be in the same room. Most of the music at the moment is played through a SONOS connect into a mojo.

My music is pretty broad, from Adele to Korn to Bon Iver to Paul Simon, some classical and much in between. Sorry since I hit 40 my taste has broadened and I’m discovering all sorts of great stuff.

in terms of the sound, I like something that is *just* in the warm side on neutral but good timing is a must. I guess foot tapping and organic is the best description. I’m not bothered about every last ear piercing detail but subtle vocal dynamics are definitely my thing.

i heard a PMC gb1 / electrocompaniet combination once and thought it sounded pretty good. Though electrocompaniet prices have rocketed so not sure it is good value.

Amp wise I’m thinking maybe Rega Elicit-r or Nato xs but open to suggestions. I think both have a form of pre-amp bypass which will make intergration into the AV side smile (if I keep it). Both should handle speaker upgrades too.

 

[newlash09]

Do you have something like a 'pure direct' mode on the Yamaha 3060. That should disable all the ypao processing in the background, and give you a more musical sound.

In my humble opinion, the reason why the magic in music goes missing in a avr is because of the ypao processing in the background. And sticking a stereo amp won't bring that difference back. Though you could feed your sources directly into your stereo amp, bypassing the Yamaha 3060, and this should bring back the missing bits in music.

Yeah it has a pure direct mode but it’s still not great for music to be honest.  

In terms of adding the stereo amp i was going to add one connection to the L&R for the av receiver but my streamer / dac into a separate input.  This way the receiver will not be in the chain for stereo music at all.

 

If stereo direct doesn't give you a better sound then an external amp is the only solution. And then plug all your music sources directly into the line level inputs of the stereo amp. So for music you only use your 2 channel amp.

Now comes the tricky bit. You can basically add any stereo amp to the L&R pre-outs of the Yamaha 3060, as long as the stereo amp has HT bypass inputs. But you will still have your sub wired to your Yamaha 3060. In essence you can only use your front L&R speakers for music and not your sub via the 2 channel amp.

Most folks are content with this. However if you want to use your sub for music too, then adding a parasound halo integrated amp is the only option I can think of, apart from a devialet 120.

The parasound halo integrated has HT bypass inputs to connect the pre outs from Yamaha 3060. And also has sub woofer in / outs. So basically you connect the sub woofer out connection on yamaha to sub in on parasound. And sub out on parasound to your sub woofer.

In this setup, when watching movies, the parasound drives your front L&R speakers. And the sub is fed signal from the Yamaha.

And when you shift to music duties, the parasound halo drives the front L&R speakers. And has crossover and high pass filters for your sub and main speakers. So the parasound can drive both your speakers along with the sub, for a full range music system.

Do check out the great reviews the parasound halo integrated has from almost every magazine that has auditioned it. I guess it should be available near the 3000 pounds mark in the UK. I have mine in a stereo setup. And really love its neutral, musical and authoritative presentation.

 

[Sliced Bread]

Hi Strictly

yes this is true though that would be very very top budget and would like to try cheaper systems first.

Maybe ATC scm11 and 19 / PMC 22 in the first instance into elicit-r or xs for the first demo if I go 2 channel. I could then maybe keep the sub purely for 2.1 movies.

 

[CnoEvil]

Here is a list of amps with HT Bypass:
http://audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-processor-input

I would add Hegel to your list...most of which (I think) have the bypass feature. I believe this would work well with Kef, ATC and PMC.

 

[CnoEvil]

Here is a list of amps with HT Bypass:
http://audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-...

 

[Sliced Bread]

Thanks Newlash, I’ll look into the Halo.

Fortunately though I never use the sub for music.

 

[Sliced Bread]

Here is a list of amps with HT Bypass: http://audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-...

I would add Hegel to your list...most of which (I think) have the bypass feature. I believe this would work well with Kef, ATC and PMC.

Awesome, thanks.

ive never heard a Hegel in the flesh so to speak, but I’ve read a lot of good things about H160

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Hi Strictly

yes this is true though that would be very very top budget and would like to try cheaper systems first.

Maybe ATC scm11 and 19 / PMC 22 in the first instance into elicit-r or xs for the first demo if I go 2 channel. I could then maybe keep the sub purely for 2.1 movies.

What are the dimensions of your room, including the height of the ceiling? Where are the speakers placed and where do you sit? How much other stuff is there in the room? Which version of the 8033 do you have? What kind of music do you like?

Those ATC and PMC models are very different speakers. Is there a particular reason why they appeal to you?

 

[newlash09]

Here is a list of amps with HT Bypass: http://audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-...

I would add Hegel to your list...most of which (I think) have the bypass feature. I believe this would work well with Kef, ATC and PMC.

Awesome, thanks.

ive never heard a Hegel in the flesh so to speak, but I’ve read a lot of good things about H160

The hegel H160 will be a superior option for 2 channel amplification

 

[Andrewjvt]

Here is a list of amps with HT Bypass: http://audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-...

I would add Hegel to your list...most of which (I think) have the bypass feature. I believe this would work well with Kef, ATC and PMC.

Awesome, thanks.

ive never heard a Hegel in the flesh so to speak, but I’ve read a lot of good things about H160

The hegel H160 will be a superior option for 2 channel amplification

The Hegel h360 even better
Better highs (h160 slightly lacking in comparison) just slightly less sparkly.

 

[davidf]

The good thing about the Hegel option is that you'll already have a decent onboard DAC so you can plug in sources digitally - using the analogue out is very hit and miss, and not great with the likes of Sky/Virgin boxes. Also, with this option, you're a bit more free to go with a cheaper Bluray source, whereas if you go for an analogue only amplifier, you'll need to be looking at the models way up the ranges to get good quality analogue output. Even then, most would probably prefer to go digital.

My own experience with moving from 5.2 down to 2.0 has been a generally positive one, and that's mainly down to having a high quality pre/processor - it almost doesn't matter what I use, all combinations sound great. Yes, I miss the surrounds and sub for the big dumb action movies, but for thrillers, dramas etc, 2.0 is immersive enough. The main issue with 2.0 is whether the sources you use have audio delay, as very rarely will picture and sound be perfectly in sync.

Moving down to 2.0 has been a great exercise in appreciating what's important and what is not.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

but I’ve read a lot of good things about H160

Hi Sliced Bread

Sold many. Good amp *smile* And now discontinued you should be able find H160’s at attractive prices too *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Sliced Bread]

Hi Strictly

yes this is true though that would be very very top budget and would like to try cheaper systems first.

Maybe ATC scm11 and 19 / PMC 22 in the first instance into elicit-r or xs for the first demo if I go 2 channel. I could then maybe keep the sub purely for 2.1 movies.

What are the dimensions of your room, including the height of the ceiling? Where are the speakers placed and where do you sit? How much other stuff is there in the room? Which version of the 8033 do you have? What kind of music do you like?

Those ATC and PMC models are very different speakers. Is there a particular reason why they appeal to you?

Hi thanks for replying.

My room is 17 foot (including bay window) by 12 foot with the speakers firing down the length. The Ceiling is about average...not sure what that is though . I sit about 2 foot from the back wall.
The 8033 is just the standard subwoofer model. I plan to keep the sub out of music for now.
My music taste is very broad from accoustic, to rock to classical plus some jazz and blues.
The PMC's appeal as I heard the GB1i's many years ago with an electro companiet and I thought it was a great sound and I also heard ATC SCM40's with unknown amplification and was very impressed.
I'm totally open to suggestions though. I'm looking for something that sounds organic but also times well. I'm also trying to find something that is not very "boxy".

 

[Sliced Bread]

Here is a list of amps with HT Bypass: http://audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-...

I would add Hegel to your list...most of which (I think) have the bypass feature. I believe this would work well with Kef, ATC and PMC.

Awesome, thanks.

ive never heard a Hegel in the flesh so to speak, but I’ve read a lot of good things about H160

The hegel H160 will be a superior option for 2 channel amplification

Great, I'll try and find a demo

 

[Sliced Bread]

Thanks David / Andrew, I'll be sure to keep the Hegels in mind.

And good point on the audio delay. This is a big point as I find out of sync audio very distracting. I'll check my UHD player, sky box and TV tonight to see what options their are.

 

[CnoEvil]

The PMC's appeal as I heard the GB1i's many years ago with an electro companiet and I thought it was a great sound

The voicing has changed from those older models, with current PMCs sounding cleaner and leaner.

 

[Sliced Bread]

The PMC's appeal as I heard the GB1i's many years ago with an electro companiet and I thought it was a great sound

The voicing has changed from those older models, with current PMCs sounding cleaner and leaner.

Ah ok. I'll keep an open mind when I listen to them.

The GB1i's were good to my ears, but only in the right pairing. I demoed them with electro gear (sounded great) and also Audiolab. The Audiolab / PMC suprised me as I was expecting to walk away with this system, but it was terrible (to my ears at least). I think the phrases are "ear lasers" and "death by detail".

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Hi thanks for replying.

My room is 17 foot (including bay window) by 12 foot with the speakers firing down the length. The Ceiling is about average...not sure what that is though . I sit about 2 foot from the back wall.The 8033 is just the standard subwoofer model. I plan to keep the sub out of music for now.My music taste is very broad from accoustic, to rock to classical plus some jazz and blues.The PMC's appeal as I heard the GB1i's many years ago with an electro companiet and I thought it was a great sound and I also heard ATC SCM40's with unknown amplification and was very impressed.I'm totally open to suggestions though. I'm looking for something that sounds organic but also times well. I'm also trying to find something that is not very "boxy".

If you enjoyed the GB1i then I would probably audition the Twenty5.23 or the slightly older Twenty.23. The SCM40 is a great speaker but it needs a lot of amplifier to get the best from it. The Hegel H160 or the newer H190 would do a fine job, but I am not convinced that the NAIT XS 2 would be the best partner for it. Maybe also have a look at Neat Acoustics. Something like the SX5i or the new Iota Xplorer would do well in this space and both work well with the NAIT XS 2 and Elicit R.

If you need to shave some cost from your budget, then the combination of the Amphion Helium 520 and Hegel's new H90 is really excellent.

There is no reason why you should not use your sub for music. It will help to fill out the bottom end of smaller main speakers, but perhaps more importantly, properly integrated using the 8033, it will help to even out the peaks and dips in response caused by room modes.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I'm totally open to suggestions though. I'm looking for something that sounds organic but also times well.

Hi Sliced Bread

In which case my adivce is to look at the now discontinued NAD C370 and Yamaha’s RX-V3800 (UK Tuned) for a few hundred pounds af the most. Use these as a reference to compare them to current amps/speakers as the C370 and the RX-V3800 have the qualities you’re looking for.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Sliced Bread]

I'm totally open to suggestions though. I'm looking for something that sounds organic but also times well.

Hi Sliced Bread

In which case my adivce is to look at the now discontinued NAD C370 and Yamaha’s RX-V3800 (UK Tuned) for a few hundred pounds af the most. Use these as a reference to compare them to current amps/speakers as the C370 and the RX-V3800 have the qualities you’re looking for.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks Rick. I'll add the Nad to the list.

 

[lindsayt]

As a suggestion, why not buy:

One of these for £19:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASPHO1-Audio-switcher-with-RCA-phono-connectors-switch-between-2-stereo-devices/183055038565?hash=item2a9eee3865:g:qY0AAOSwH3haOkwX

A stereo pre amp of your choice.

A stereo power amp of your choice.

A pair of CM8 beating speakers (loads of them around) of your choice.

Keep your AV receiver and plug the front speaker pre-out it into the RCA 2 into 1 junction box.

Plug the junction box into your stereo power amp. This then goes to your new speakers.

Plug your music sources into your stereo pre-amp - which could be a simple passive pre-amp if your music sources have a strong output. Otherwise get an active stereo pre-amp. The pre-amp then goes to the other input to the junction box.

Then you just need to flick the switch on the junction box every time you swap between music and AV.

 

[Sliced Bread]

As a suggestion, why not buy:

One of these for £19:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASPHO1-Audio-switcher-with-RCA-phono-connectors-switch-between-2-stereo-devices/183055038565?hash=item2a9eee3865:g:qY0AAOSwH3haOkwX

A stereo pre amp of your choice.

A stereo power amp of your choice.

A pair of CM8 beating speakers (loads of them around) of your choice.

Keep your AV receiver and plug the front speaker pre-out it into the RCA 2 into 1 junction box.

Plug the junction box into your stereo power amp. This then goes to your new speakers.

Plug your music sources into your stereo pre-amp - which could be a simple passive pre-amp if your music sources have a strong output. Otherwise get an active stereo pre-amp. The pre-amp then goes to the other input to the junction box.

Then you just need to flick the switch on the junction box every time you swap between music and AV.

Thanks Lindsay, I’ll keep this in mind. This could work if the stereo amp doesn’t have a bypass option.

 

[newlash09]

Just read in another thread, that there is a Hegel H160 going on special offer from Rick's music craft at a mouth watering price of 592 pounds. A very great amp ...please have a look if you are still interested

 

[Sliced Bread]

Just read in another thread, that there is a Hegel H160 going on special offer from Rick's music craft at a mouth watering price of 592 pounds. A very great amp ...please have a look if you are still interested

nice, thanks

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Just read in another thread, that there is a Hegel H160 going on special offer from Rick's music craft at a mouth watering price of 592 pounds. A very great amp ...please have a look if you are still interested

Hi newslash09

Thanks *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft