Which subwoofer for classical music?

[admin_exported]

My current set up is Arcam Alpha 8 CDP (not SE), Alpha 9 amp, Usher S520 speakers, chord crimson interconnects and QED Silver Anniversry (not XT) cables. I'm thinking about biamping the speakers if I can pick up a s/h 9P. I'm also thinking about improving the sonic range by adding a subwoofer. I know WHF isn't that keen on the Ushers, so might suggest just changing the speakers, but I like them enough to stick with them for the time being. If I were to explore the subwoofer option, any suggestions - both current models and s/h that might appear on online auction websites or local dealers? I don't have a budget exactly (I'll "find" the money somehow), but obviously it needs to be in keeping with the rest of the system,,,

Thanks in advance.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Why do you feel that you need the sub? Are you lacking bass response with the Ushers?

I totally agree that adding an Arcam Alpha 9P power amp with defitely open up the soundstage but have you considered the possibility that the speakers may be the main source of 'let down' and changing them may make the difference.

Having owned the Arcam Alpha 9 integrated and the 9P power amps i can who heartedly recommend the M/A RS6 speakers. These speakers, IMO, sound superb with Arcam separates and the Alpha 9 set-up really works well with them

Another consideration would be the CDP and/or interconnects and speaker cable.

I found that changing from QED Silver Anniversary bi-wire cable to Chord Carnival Silverscreen really made a difference and also the Chord Crimson interconnects helped to open up the soundstage even more.

 

[Big Chris]

PV1. When I listen to 'Mars - Bringer of War' from Holst's 'Planets' suite, it sounds amazingly good.

 

[Anonymous]

The RS6s are out of my price range (unless s/h I guess).

Basically I really like the Ushers, not least because they do an awful lot (bass included) despite their diminutive size and great looks (keeps the Mrs happy). The subwoofer thing is more of an experiment at tihs stage, as would biamping be. But before I speculate, or drive to audion, I wanted some direction...

 

[drummerman]

ajh57:
The RS6s are out of my price range (unless s/h I guess).

Basically I really like the Ushers, not least because they do an awful lot (bass included) despite their diminutive size and great looks (keeps the Mrs happy). The subwoofer thing is more of an experiment at tihs stage, as would biamping be. But before I speculate, or drive to audion, I wanted some direction...

Hi,

No, I would not change the Usher's for RS6's, though they are as different as can be and do sound ok with Arcam. Neither would I bi-amp them, there's simply not enough benefit with such a small, bandwidth limited speaker and the associated electronics you have.

I think you have the right idea with regards to adding/experimenting with a sub. My usual suggestion is MJ Acoustics Pro 50, also sold as minotaur by bk electronics. Small, a hundred odd pounds with good adjustments and its fast and tight sounding. Plus it won't be obsolete as/when you upgrade.

hope this helps

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Drummerman, but where have you seen the MJs for £100? When I google them they come up at £260 - or are you thinking s/h?

 

[drummerman]

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

£150 but they regularely pop up on ebay as Ruark Vita Pro 50, same sub, for around £120 new and boxed. At least used to. Unfortunately I don't have the seller details anymore.

You can of course buy better for more but it seems to do a fine job with equipment at every level.

regards

 

[Anonymous]

drummerman:

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

£150 but they regularely pop up on ebay as Ruark Vita Pro 50, same sub, for around £120 new and boxed. At least used to. Unfortunately I don't have the seller details anymore.

You can of course buy better for more but it seems to do a fine job with equipment at every level.

regards

Thanks again. Now what cables do I need (having never experimented with a sub before)?

 

[Anonymous]

The first thing to consider is whether you actually need a Subwoofer for Classical Music because most of it doesn't have much below 80 Hz in it.
Until Wagner, Mahler and the later more dramatic large scale works, subs don't help much. However if you're speakers appear to lack bass, is it because the sound you're getting is too bright or edgy? In which case perhaps some mellower sounding speakers might be in order.

I'm not allowed to advertise on here, so I'll suggest you try some Spendors or Harbeths to see if they give you what you're looking for.

Ashley

 

[drummerman]

ajh57:drummerman:

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

£150 but they regularely pop up on ebay as Ruark Vita Pro 50, same sub, for around £120 new and boxed. At least used to. Unfortunately I don't have the seller details anymore.

You can of course buy better for more but it seems to do a fine job with equipment at every level.

regards

Thanks again. Now what cables do I need (having never experimented with a sub before)?

I do have speakon high level leads but normally just use RCA low level.

regards

 

[The_Lhc]

Ashley James:The first thing to consider is whether you actually need a Subwoofer for Classical Music because most of it doesn't have much below 80 Hz in it.
Until Wagner, Mahler and the later more dramatic large scale works, subs don't help much.

How low do the big organs go? I've just got a load of recordings of choirs singing christmas carols in some cathedral accompanied by the organ and it's shaking the floor, even without a sub!

 

[d_a_n1979]

They go low... And its one of my favourite sounds

 

[The_Lhc]

d_a_n1979:They go low... And its one of my favourite sounds

yeah I know, I'd just set up a Christmas Morning playlist on the Sonos, the idea being I have all this nice peaceful choral music playing when we wake up xmas morning and I decided to run through the tracks to see what they were like, after about ten minutes my missus wandered in to tell me to turn it down because she didn't like the way the floor was vibrating!

So much for peaceful, still we'll be up nice and early...

 

[Anonymous]

Check out the Martin Logan Dynamo or the Velodyne SPL800i. No idea if these are anywhere near your budget, but check them out if they are.

Whilst I agree with What Hi Fi's three star review of the Logan to a point, for your purposes it would be fantastic. It's no home theatre wall bender, but for music it's tight, fast and tuneful. ÿAnd you can tell people you have a Martin Logan

ÿThe Velodyne on the other hand works well in either role.ÿAn 8" driver with a 1000W amp makes for speed and control.ÿI once heard two of them with a pair of ProAc Response 1SCs. Magical, frankly. They're also tiny and so being gives them a high WAF.ÿ

I'd suggest auditioning them both if you can. However if you want those 20Hz church organ tones then neither is going to cut it....

ÿhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3087674.stm

ÿ

As an aside and slightly off topic - today I heard something that will get all internal organ wobbling on you. The JL Audio Fathom 113. This monster has a 13.5" driver, 2500 watts RMS short term and weighs 59kg. I didn't hear it with music but it beat me round the face with 'Transformers'. They also make a twin 13.5" beast that weighs in at 163kg and costs $12,000 USD................

 

[Anonymous]

A bk monlith will give an easy 20hz for £400! if it fits in your living room that is its a bargin

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:
Ashley James:The first thing to consider is whether you actually need a Subwoofer for Classical Music because most of it doesn't have much below 80 Hz in it.
Until Wagner, Mahler and the later more dramatic large scale works, subs don't help much.

How low do the big organs go? I've just got a load of recordings of choirs singing christmas carols in some cathedral accompanied by the organ and it's shaking the floor, even without a sub!

Ashley, I'm afraid that's just not the case - as the_lhc points out large church/cathedral organs will normally have a 32' rank - the lowest note produced by such an organ is a C four octaves below middle C, which is at about 16 Hz. The lowest note on a standard piano is 27.5Hz (Bosendorfers go down to 21Hz). Even a double bass goes down to 32 Hz, and a cello's bottom string is 65.4Hz! Orchestral bass drums have many frequencies in a similar spectrum as well. Given most floorstanding speakers (even v. expensive ones) do not respond below 25Hz, and are underpowered below about 32Hz, you can easily lose quite a lot without a sub in classical music. In fact, apart from electronic music, there are very few 'popular' music instruments which extend as low as many classical repertoire instruments (kick drums are most powerful between 50 and 80Hz, while a four string bass guitar's lowest note is an E at 41Hz).

Acoustics lesson over

 

[Anonymous]

Big Chris:PV1. When I listen to 'Mars - Bringer of War' from Holst's 'Planets' suite, it sounds amazingly good.

Then a completely peaceful slice of bliss with 'Venus - The Bringer of Peace' - a wonderful suite.