Which component is the weakest link in my system?

[Bloviator]

Marantz CD-63SE CD player
Arcam Alpha 5 Plus amplifier
Arcam Alpha 7 FM radio receiver
Sony MDS-JB940 minidisc player
B&W DM601 speakers
Atacama speaker stands
Apple Airport Express connected to Sony minidisc by optical cable, thereby using the Sony's DAC to play music streamed from my computer.

I haven't invested much in my system for a number of years, but now have £1,000 to spend on getting better sound. What would be the most effective upgrade to my system, bearing in mind that most of my music is on CD? I hardly use the minidisc player now, except as a DAC connected to the Airport Express.

Should I get a new amplifier, new speakers or a new CD player? What about keeping the CD player as a transport and adding an external DAC or media streamer that could handle 24-bit lossless files at high sampling rates from a computer?

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Bloviator:Marantz CD-63SE CD player
Arcam Alpha 5 Plus amplifier
Arcam Alpha 7 FM radio receiver
Sony MDS-JB940 minidisc player
B&W DM601 speakers
Atacama speaker stands
Apple Airport Express connected to Sony minidisc by optical cable, thereby using the Sony's DAC to play music streamed from my computer.

I haven't invested much in my system for a number of years, but now have £1,000 to spend on getting better sound. What would be the most effective upgrade to my system, bearing in mind that most of my music is on CD? I hardly use the minidisc player now, except as a DAC connected to the Airport Express.

Should I get a new amplifier, new speakers or a new CD player? What about keeping the CD player as a transport and adding an external DAC or media streamer that could handle 24-bit lossless files at high sampling rates from a computer?

I would sell the amp and speakers and add what you get to the £1k to replace them. You can get a Beresford DAC on eBay for about £70 so you could get a system that would easily outperform your current one.

 

[Bloviator]

Thanks for the response. I was thinking myself that upgrading the amplifier would make the biggest difference. Got any specific amplifier & speakers recommendations? I think I am going to take a look at the Roksan Kandy K2. What speakers would suit it?

 

[matthewpiano]

I wouldn't feel any need for doing anything to the CD player. The CD63SE is still a stunner even now and I don't think you'll improve on it with a budget DAC.

 

[Craig M.]

i'd give serious consideration to some avi adm9.1s, plug your cdp and airport express into the optical inputs (i'm assuming your cdp has optical out). if you like a clean and dynamic sound, they are excellent.

 

[Bloviator]

Just read the reviews of the AVI ADM9.1 active speakers. They are an interesting product. Must be worth an audition.

 

[the record spot]

Bloviator:Marantz CD-63SE CD player
Arcam Alpha 5 Plus amplifier
Arcam Alpha 7 FM radio receiver
Sony MDS-JB940 minidisc player
B&W DM601 speakers
Atacama speaker stands
Apple Airport Express connected to Sony minidisc by optical cable, thereby using the Sony's DAC to play music streamed from my computer.

I haven't invested much in my system for a number of years, but now have £1,000 to spend on getting better sound. What would be the most effective upgrade to my system, bearing in mind that most of my music is on CD? I hardly use the minidisc player now, except as a DAC connected to the Airport Express.

Should I get a new amplifier, new speakers or a new CD player? What about keeping the CD player as a transport and adding an external DAC or media streamer that could handle 24-bit lossless files at high sampling rates from a computer?

The CD63SE was the midpoint between the original CD63 and the KI version. You could top it with the likes of Arcam's CD192 (for instance) which appears from time to time - but the gap wouldn't necessarily be as wide as you might think. I only mention the Arcam as one turned up in excellent nick for £200 last weekend in one of the Edinburgh shops.

I'd suggest a far better spend would be a few hundred on a better amp. Arcam and Marantz work well together, but the 5-Plus can be bettered. Ultimately, it all depends on the kind of sound you want to hear - how you like music to sound and we've all got different tastes.

However, I'll make a suggestion given as you're into computer audio - check out the Harman Kardon HK990 amp; it's got an onboard DAC, optical and coax inouts, can take a USB connection as well, has about 150wpc, high current, dual mono design and probably delivers what you want for your money while saving you the bother of getting a handful of boxes given your apparent requirements.

There's a few offers on this right now, but you could do worse than try The Home Cinema Centre in Edinburgh who have the amp for £795. Given it came on the market a couple of years ago for £1000, that's a decent saving.

http://www.thehomecinemacentre.co.uk/index.php/hi_fi/hi-fi_amplifier/harman_kardon_hk990/

 

[Bloviator]

That HK990 is a monster. The reviewers seem to like it though. Will I need to upgrade my speakers as well in order to really hear the benefit of the £800 spent on an amp?

 

[the record spot]

You probably do, but you could run the 601s for now, save up a little more and shortlist some options in the meantime. There are of course the AVIs...

 

[Bloviator]

Has anyone got any further amplifier or speaker recommendations? Any other opinions on the AVI active speaker option?

I think I am going to start by auditioning amplifiers, starting with the Roksan Kandy K2 and the Cyrus 6XP.

 

[Mr Morph]

matthewpiano:I wouldn't feel any need for doing anything to the CD player. The CD63SE is still a stunner even now and I don't think you'll improve on it with a budget DAC.

Agreed. I've heard a number of people who find it very difficult to pull themselves away from a 63SE, and most have been pretty dissapointed with most modern DACs and players.

 

[Bloviator]

Mr Morph:

Agreed. I've heard a number of people who find it very difficult to pull themselves away from a 63SE, and most have been pretty dissapointed with most modern DACs and players.

Over the last few days I have discovered a few websites, like Fidelity Audio for example, that offer to carry out modifications to older CD players, including the CD63 SE. The prices charged can be quite high compared to the original £350 cost of the player - anything from £160 to well over £1,000. I am wondering whether or not such modifications offer good value for money compared to spending say £750-£1,000 on a brand new CD player.

Mr Morph, heard from anyone who has had this kind of modification done to their Marantz?

 

[Mr Morph]

Certainly wouldn't spend a £1000 on it, as you could buy an Audiolab 8200CD for £900, and that would eclipse the performance of a Marantz CD63 KI Signature. As for the other mods, there's no real way of knowing until the work has been completed? If your into the older kit, many CD63SE owners have said that a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic 2 builds upon the performance of that player without losing the warm nature of the sound. Improved clarity, better timing, and tighter bass performance being the main improvements.

 

[Blackdawn]

Bloviator, I would spend the £1000 approx. equally on a new amplifier and speakers. If you spend all on one item (such as amp) this is good but depends how long you can wait or save to upgrade the speakers.

Something like:

Amp - Nad C356BEE, Marantz 7003-8003, Creek Evo, Arcam A18 etc

Speakers - KEF Q300, Dali Lektor 3, Mordaunt Short Mezzo 2, Klipsch RB81 II, Epos Epic 2, Castle Knight 2, Tannoy Sig DC6 etc

if you go second hand its a different story.

 

[smuggs]

i would be looking at something like the rotel ra1520 and some B&W cm1's thats what ill hopefully have in 2 years the 2 are stunning. The combo plays every music from rap,indie,classical you name it.

the 2 are r.r.p at £700 and £500 but im sure you find deals.

i really like the advise of getting an amp and speakers for the 1k cause then it will be getable to get a £500 dac for example and you will then have a very nice setup. i would look at amps that you can add power amps to later on.

i am on the side of the amp has to be better than the speakers money wise i like a proper well driven speaker to a set of £1200 speakers on a £700 amp. i find the other way round is class. this is all imo all the best enjoy your demos in a strange way its the best bit when you have funds to buy new kit.

 

[Bloviator]

Blackdawn:
Bloviator, I would spend the £1000 approx. equally on a new amplifier and speakers. If you spend all on one item (such as amp) this is good but depends how long you can wait or save to upgrade the speakers.

That's my dilemma precisely. I don't really know how much I'll need to spend on a single component in order to significantly improve the sound to the extent that I won't want to upgrade that component again for some years. If I spend £1,000 now on an amp now, will the benefit of that be largely wasted until I can spend another £1,000 on speakers?

On the other hand, how much better will a modern £500 amp and £500 speakers sound compared to the equipment I already have?
Blackdawn, you say, if I were to go second hand would be a different story. In that case, what products would you recommend?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Bloviator:Blackdawn:
Bloviator, I would spend the £1000 approx. equally on a new amplifier and speakers. If you spend all on one item (such as amp) this is good but depends how long you can wait or save to upgrade the speakers.

That's my dilemma precisely. I don't really know how much I'll need to spend on a single component in order to significantly improve the sound to the extent that I won't want to upgrade that component again for some years. If I spend £1,000 now on an amp now, will the benefit of that be largely wasted until I can spend another £1,000 on speakers?

On the other hand, how much better will a modern £500 amp and £500 speakers sound compared to the equipment I already have?

Blackdawn, you say, if I were to go second hand would be a different story. In that case, what products would you recommend?

Hi Bloviator

As good as the Alpha 5 amp is however it is the weakest link in your set up. You don't need to spend anywhere near £1k to gain a significant improvement in amplification for your source components and speakers. If you are happy to consider used components then i'll simply advice you to save your money and consider the NAD C370 amplifier. The C370 will 'open up the window' to your source components and will breathe new life into your speakers by energizing them

I'll suggest you use your source components for as long as you can. Thereafter next on the list should be a change of speakers as the C370 can ultimately benefit from even better speakers then the 601's. If you don't want to make changes again for some years to come then i'll highly recommend Dynaudio's superb DM 2/6 or DM 2/7's or ATC's excellent SCM11 monitors

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

The DM601's are an excellent little speaker, and are engineered well enough to withstand an amp upgrade. I'm not saying you'll get the best from whichever amp you decide to go for, but drive the pants off them and you'll be surprised how good they can sound.

 

[Messiah]

As has been suggested, the ADMs are excellent and I don't think you would get a better upgrade for the money.

I would certainly recommend an audition if nothing else.

 

[Bloviator]

smuggs: i am on the side of the amp has to be better than the speakers money wise i like a proper well driven speaker to a set of £1200 speakers on a £700 amp. i find the other way round is class.

MUSICRAFT: the Alpha 5 amp is the weakest link in your set up. You don't need to spend anywhere near £1k to gain a significant improvement... save your money and consider the NAD C370 amplifier... next on the list should be a change of speakers... Dynaudio's superb DM 2/6 or DM 2/7's or ATC's excellent SCM11 monitors

FrankHarveyHiFi: The DM601's are an excellent little speaker, and are engineered well enough to withstand an amp upgrade. I'm not saying you'll get the best from whichever amp you decide to go for, but drive the pants off them and you'll be surprised how good they can sound.

The consensus seems to be that the amplifier is the weakest link and that's where I should start my auditions. Would it definitely to be a mistake to upgrade to ACT SCM11 speakers, for example, without first upgrading the amplifier?

The VI ADM9.1 active speakers offer an alternative route that I'll definitely consider for an audition.

The option of upgrading the amplifier by buying second hand also seems attractive. I'd welcome further used amplifier recommendations, if anyone has any.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Bloviator:smuggs: i am on the side of the amp has to be better than the speakers money wise i like a proper well driven speaker to a set of £1200 speakers on a £700 amp. i find the other way round is class.

MUSICRAFT: the Alpha 5 amp is the weakest link in your set up. You don't need to spend anywhere near £1k to gain a significant improvement... save your money and consider the NAD C370 amplifier... next on the list should be a change of speakers... Dynaudio's superb DM 2/6 or DM 2/7's or ATC's excellent SCM11 monitors

FrankHarveyHiFi: The DM601's are an excellent little speaker, and are engineered well enough to withstand an amp upgrade. I'm not saying you'll get the best from whichever amp you decide to go for, but drive the pants off them and you'll be surprised how good they can sound.

The consensus seems to be that the amplifier is the weakest link and that's where I should start my auditions. Would it definitely to be a mistake to upgrade to ACT SCM11 speakers, for example, without first upgrading the amplifier?

The VI ADM9.1 active speakers offer an alternative route that I'll definitely consider for an audition.

The option of upgrading the amplifier by buying second hand also seems attractive. I'd welcome further used amplifier recommendations, if anyone has any.

Hi Bloviator

ATC's SCM11 monitors can be happily used with the Alpha 5 amplifier as long as for eg. you are not planning to playback at constant disco like levels. However if you wish to make changes in one go then around your budget the C370 will go much further in unlocking the performance potential of the SCM11 monitors.

Other used amplification to also consider are the superb Marantz PM64 and Rotel's RA-1062. As with the C370 both of these amplifiers will also offer a significant improvement over the Alpha 5 whether used with the 601's or SCM11 monitors.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft