Where have all our record shops gone?

[wireman]

I guess because on-line retailers have been cheaper than bricks'n'mortar stores, that justifies buying on-line. But the last 6 CDs/DVD's I've bought can't even be bought from Amazon or Play and only sell direct from their own web-site at prices more in-line with the High Street than Amazon.

As an example, Level 42's Live in Holland concert on DVD - as far as I can tell, only available direct from their own web-site at £18.99 inc p&p. One (other) Band even told me they don't see why they should supply on-line retailers at discounted rates when they're able to sell direct at whatever price they like and pocket all the cash.

If Artists increasingly avoid discounted on-line sellers like Amazon and Play, just selling direct and dictating their own prices too, we'll have lost our High Street retailers for what?

 

[Richard Allen]

Even thought of the shop to put it in.

Hairdressers / barbers shop, unless you all get ur hair cut online now.

 

[Richard Allen]

As an example, Level 42's Live in Holland concert on DVD - as far as I can tell, only available direct from their own web-site at £18.99 inc p&p. One (other) Band even told me they don't see why they should supply on-line retailers at discounted rates when they're able to sell direct at whatever price they like and pocket all the cash.

If Artists increasingly avoid discounted on-line sellers like Amazon and Play, just selling direct and dictating their own prices too, we'll have lost our High Street retailers for what?

Good point wireman. this particular 'fossil' comes down to the artists wanting to get a reasonable whack for their creativeness and I agree with them. The stupidity is if the large concerns hadn't done the Amazon thing and stayed with the high street retailer, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?

 

[Covenanter]

Isn't it just simple economics? What "added value" can a shop provide when it comes to something like a CD? I don't think there is much that would justify the higher price that they need to charge to cover their overheads. I'm afraid they will disappear.

Chris

 

[plastic penguin]

Even thought of the shop to put it in.

Hairdressers / barbers shop, unless you all get ur hair cut online now.

Better off in a coffee shop or good quality cafe. Scaffold's 'Lily The Pink' will probably be a million seller.

 

[FennerMachine]

I used to visit Watford about once a month to do some CD/DVD shopping and buy several items.

Virgin Megastore, Choices, HMV and a few others.

Virgin was my favorite as you could demo the CD at a listening station. That was added value. Difficult to do that on-line as the demos are usually shorter or low quality.

 

[busb]

To quote from the play Juno & the Paycock: "The world is in a state of chasis!" Perhaps flux would be more accurate. As for buying records, my local large town is Reading, HMV sells new vinyl for between £12 & £25 & there are 2 shops in Harris Arcade (where Reading Cassette & HiFi used to be run by Ian Padbury) sell 2nd hand for considerably less. Although I haven't bought any LPs for since about 1986, I still have ~300 stashed away & may well buy an LP3 next year.

High street shops are in a bind. People in my home town blame high parking fees for the drop in sales. This may have some impact but I'd guess at huge rents on commercial properties (many owned by pension funds) being the culprit. Can we dispense with the High St altogether though? We can buy buy off companies like Amazon who pay no Corp tax in the UK IIRC but do contribute vast amounts of VAT. There's a good few problems buying on line:

Not all outlets show stock levels

There's going to be a delay before delivery

One cannot touch, see, smell, taste or try the products before purchase

You have to be at home to take delivery - not all employers welcome deliveries for their staff

The ability to return items is more complex

I don't know what effect all this home purchase/delivery is having on transport & fuel usage but many purchases on the High St are not premeditated but incidental. If shops cannot survive, sales will plummet. I just can't see sales levels being maintained without that tactile experience. As for buying HiFi, all the shops near me have online shops. I'd bet that many prefer to take home stuff for demo than return the same to an online supplier. Whether or not the market (us) will be driven towards some balance between High St & home purchase no one knows but something will give.

As for shops like HMV, they are on borrowed time IMO. Some point in the near future, the only discs bought will be vinyl & 2nd hand CDs/DVD & BR. They will be replaced by virtual purchase as is happening or we go for the Spotify model of all yo can eat for £10 a month for music & films downloaded for rental. The same is happening with books & magazines.

 

[the record spot]

Edinburgh is good especially for secondhand stuff. We have two HMV's - one in Princes Street, the other half a mile away at St. James Centre, but secondhand really shines. Vinyl Villains on Emm Row, Hogs Head up at South Clerk Street, the charity shops are excellent in Stockbrdge with Oxfam music and Shelter both having a good range of stuff. I find some rarities amongst that lot too which is always nice when one turns up. There's probably a few others, but that does me locally. Occasionally I buy off the web but for the most part, I like to support the smaller shops. They have a loyal custom and have been going for years.

P: I live about 6 miles from the centre of town. PP - 7 miles is diddly! Folk up in Wester Ross or Skye often *** across to the big Tesco in Inverness to get their month's shopping in. That's a four hour round trip!!

 

[wireman]

Isn't it just simple economics? What "added value" can a shop provide when it comes to something like a CD? I don't think there is much that would justify the higher price that they need to charge to cover their overheads. I'm afraid they will disappear.

Chris

The owner of one of my local independant record stores (all now closed, as are all the hi-fi shops too) used to have an incredible knowledge of all genres of music: I'd happily spend most of a Sunday in there being introduced to all manner of new artists, and happily come out having spent £150+ on new material which I'd never otherwise have known about. That's added value worth paying for in my book.

Now I have to waste days... even weeks of my limited time scouring through oceans of dross on the inter-web thingy before I might find one credible CD worth buying.

 

[shooter]

Now I have to waste days... even weeks of my limited time scouring through oceans of dross on the inter-web thingy before I might find one credible CD worth buying.

I still use the radio as my main source of new material, at least this hasn't changed over the last 30 odd years.

Also live gigs are good for discovering bands you've never heard before.

 

[wireman]

I still use the radio as my main source of new material, at least this hasn't changed over the last 30 odd years.

Also live gigs are good for discovering bands you've never heard before.

Yes, so do I! And youtube can be quite good too... but all Amazon does is point me to Artists I already know about and albums I already bought years ago.

But there's no substitute yet for the knowledgable record store owner who understands your tastes and takes you straight to the new material which is likely to be exactly what you're interested in!

 

[BenLaw]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, HMVs are closing because they are rubbish. I would be really interested to see whether, if a company got the business model right, they could succeed on the High Street. Probably not, but they'd have a much bigger chance than HMV. It seems to me all the changes HMV has made over the last 10 years have been for the worse. I used to go all the time, now it's a very rare event. The music being piped through is worse and louder than before. Pricing is erratic and for many products overly 'ambitious', seemingly only designed to take advantage of the non-savvy shopper, of which there are increasingly few. Equally, permanent 'sales' gives the impression that they're incapable of clearing stock. I understand diversification into products with greater profit margins, but why are they selling crispsc, chocolate and drinks at point of sale? Employees are mostly clueless imbeciles, who are incapable even of being polite. It all adds up to a horrible shopping experience.

Hi all I suppose We are lucky to have 2 Hmvs in Norwich + a thats entertaiment but over the last 30odd years we have lost Andys Records Our Price Robins Records Virgin Woolworths +

I used to shop in the Norwich Virgin (amongst others) c.20 years ago. In the 'new' shopping centre, it was contemporary and cool. I can't remember why but I went in shortly before it all folded - the decor hadn't been changed in all that time (lots of industrial metal) and now looked horribly old-fashioned. It also looked (and smelled) like it hadn't been cleaned in all that time. How retailers expected to survive when carrying on business like this I don't know.

 

[BenLaw]

I still use the radio as my main source of new material, at least this hasn't changed over the last 30 odd years.

Also live gigs are good for discovering bands you've never heard before.

Yes, so do I! And youtube can be quite good too... but all Amazon does is point me to Artists I already know about and albums I already bought years ago.

But there's no substitute yet for the knowledgable record store owner who understands your tastes and takes you straight to the new material which is likely to be exactly what you're interested in!

I disagree. Spotify (and similar) are much better IMO. Spotify radio is marvellous, or going off Amazon's recommendations. You don't rely on another individual's views and you actually get to listen to all of that music, without having to purchase.

My experience is that there are many excellent tracks but few excellent albums, ie albums with no more than 2 mediocre tracks. Spotify allows me to hear far more of those excellent tracks while saving me money by allowing me only to purchase excellent albums.

 

[plastic penguin]

Edinburgh is good especially for secondhand stuff. We have two HMV's - one in Princes Street, the other half a mile away at St. James Centre, but secondhand really shines. Vinyl Villains on Emm Row, Hogs Head up at South Clerk Street, the charity shops are excellent in Stockbrdge with Oxfam music and Shelter both having a good range of stuff. I find some rarities amongst that lot too which is always nice when one turns up. There's probably a few others, but that does me locally. Occasionally I buy off the web but for the most part, I like to support the smaller shops. They have a loyal custom and have been going for years.

P: I live about 6 miles from the centre of town. PP - 7 miles is diddly! Folk up in Wester Ross or Skye often *** across to the big Tesco in Inverness to get their month's shopping in. That's a four hour round trip!!

Agreed: When you consider I used to live within a 10 minute walk of at least 8-9 shops that sold music stuff, including a small Arcade. Had this little dusty attic-type shop that sold all s/hand and rare music.

Parking at weekends ain't easy, even the big multi-storey was often full. If you live in Skye a couple of sheep and a tractor constitutes a traffic jam.

 

[BenLaw]

Not all outlets show stock levels

True, but it would be plausible to shop only at Amazon, which does show stock levels, and is rarely beaten by much on price.

There's going to be a delay before delivery

Everyone's different, but this doesn't bother me, and indeed gives me pleasure twice, once at purchase, once when it arrives.

One cannot touch, see, smell, taste or try the products before purchase

Happily, I know what CDs and blu rays look and feel like and never want to taste or smell them

You have to be at home to take delivery - not all employers welcome deliveries for their staff

Not a problem with discs, ie most things that one might buy at HMV as an alternative.

The ability to return items is more complex

Very straightforward with Amazon and no need to (i) drive into town, (ii) spend money on petrol, (iii) spend money on parking.

At the moment high street music shopping gives me zero benefits over online listening and shopping, and until that changes I won't be going back, nor will I fell sorry.

 

[BenLaw]

Hairdressers / barbers shop, unless you all get ur hair cut online now.

No, but I do cut it at home

 

[wireman]

I disagree. Spotify (and similar) are much better IMO. Spotify radio is marvellous, or going off Amazon's recommendations. You don't rely on another individual's views and you actually get to listen to all of that music, without having to purchase.

I guess it depends what genre of music you're interested in; both Spotify and Amazon just play/recommend stuff I've already got. Overseas internet radio is better, but I can listen all day and most of what I'm hearing is still that which I already own or know about - and if I'm lucky, maybe just one or two tracks in a day may ***** my ears up sufficiently to warrant investigating those artists on-line. IMHO it's a horrendous waste of my time when I could instead spend my day actually listening to something I'd chosen instead of being force-fed a diet of material I largely already own but wouldn't choose to be listening to at that particular time of my day. Bring back my local dealer!!!

 

[BenLaw]

I disagree. Spotify (and similar) are much better IMO. Spotify radio is marvellous, or going off Amazon's recommendations. You don't rely on another individual's views and you actually get to listen to all of that music, without having to purchase.

both Spotify and Amazon just play/recommend stuff I've already got.

I've not used Spotify radio much but this surprises me re Amazon. I don't see how you can do better in a record shop, simply because Amazon has a better selection. I often find myself on pages 10-25 of my recommendations on Amazon but if you click far enough you must come to something you've not heard before. I also find it useful to improve recommendations by clicking if you own stuff, if you don't want stuff and by rating.

 

[chebby]

PP, get a bike. Seven miles is no distance. 30 minutes? No parking problems and no petrol. Then you can scowl through the windows at people buying Playstations and tell passing shoppers about when "this was all fields and record shops".

 

[plastic penguin]

PP, get a bike. Seven miles is no distance. 30 minutes? No parking problems and no petrol. Then you can scowl through the windows at people buying Playstations and tell passing shoppers about when "this was all fields and record shops".

Got a bike, of sorts. Had one since last summer. Gawd knows how I'd fit a child seat and a wheelchair securely...

 

[busb]

Not all outlets show stock levels

True, but it would be plausible to shop only at Amazon, which does show stock levels, and is rarely beaten by much on price.

There's going to be a delay before delivery

Everyone's different, but this doesn't bother me, and indeed gives me pleasure twice, once at purchase, once when it arrives.

One cannot touch, see, smell, taste or try the products before purchase

Happily, I know what CDs and blu rays look and feel like and never want to taste or smell them

You have to be at home to take delivery - not all employers welcome deliveries for their staff

Not a problem with discs, ie most things that one might buy at HMV as an alternative.

The ability to return items is more complex

Very straightforward with Amazon and no need to (i) drive into town, (ii) spend money on petrol, (iii) spend money on parking.

At the moment high street music shopping gives me zero benefits over online listening and shopping, and until that changes I won't be going back, nor will I fell sorry.

If we adhere to the strick confines of buying music, you are entirely correct. When I admitted (elsewhere) to having scanned a CD's barcode whilst in HVM on a Saturday to have it delivered by Amazon by Monday 8pm, I was accused of blatenly misusing the High street. My answer was that HMV were a crap outlet IMO & that I didn't "pull" such tricks when buying HiFi. Given the price differential, I can't afford to be so high & mighty. It's also a government decision on how much corp tax Amazon pay.

My main point is that if most High St outlets were to close, the whole economy would probably collapse. Amazon is great for certain products such as music, films, cables, batteries & numerous other products that we are familiar with. The web is also great for buying a lot of services such as insurance. I haven't bought food online but many do. I don't personally have a problem with not having physical copies such as CDs like some seem to but stuff like cloths, shoes etc, I ain't going to buy online unless they are repeat purchases.

 

[BenLaw]

If we adhere to the strick confines of buying music, you are entirely correct. When I admitted (elsewhere) to having scanned a CD's barcode whilst in HVM on a Saturday to have it delivered by Amazon by Monday 8pm, I was accused of blatenly misusing the High street. My answer was that HMV were a crap outlet IMO & that I didn't "pull" such tricks when buying HiFi. Given the price differential, I can't afford to be so high & mighty. It's also a government decision on how much corp tax Amazon pay.

Agree with all of that.

My main point is that if most High St outlets were to close, the whole economy would probably collapse.

Well, I suspect we're gonna find out soon, whether we like it or not.... When £1 in ever £7 is spent at Tesco, internet shopping is on the rise and out of town shopping centres are increasingly popular and feature the same homogenous chains as are / were on the high street, I suspect we'll survive without.

but stuff like cloths, shoes etc, I ain't going to buy online unless they are repeat purchases.

I went through a phase of buying quite a few clothes online. I really can't stand clothes shopping in town due to annoying shop assistants and horrible changing rooms. Sure, you end up returning up a lot, but there's a bigger selection, competitive pricing, it's geared up for returns, you can try in the comfort of your own home and you can just choose 3 similar items and keep the most appropriate one.

 

[FennerMachine]

I’ve bought a few things over the Internet as local stores don’t stock what I want or are much more expensive. Still buy from shops mostly though. However I still prefer a physical disc. I’ve bought a few downloads but likely never again. Managed to delete my ITunes library and thought I had a backup but didn’t. Most items, TV series, I could re-download. But 2 films and an audio book I need to buy again! I know that a disc may become unplayable but I would never take the chance on my whole collection becoming irretrievable! I know that there are ways of backing up and a house can burn down taking everything with it but that’s what contents insurance is for! How could you claim for ITunes purchases? At least with physical media you might still have some way to prove you had a collection.

 

[shooter]

This makes intersting reading, even though it's 4 years out of date:

http://musicbusinessresearch.wordpress.com/2010/03/29/the-recession-in-the-music-industry-a-cause-analysis/

Just read this. Interesting but like all similar writings they all seem to make some kind of blame of the situation with obscure goings on, this one was the world wide oil recession? There maybe some truth in that but i think they are looking far to deeply into it. My view is it had more to do with gaming, kids who used to buy music now bought Atari's, Sinclairs ZX81's, Apple Macintosh's etc. Off the shelf gaming or programe your own game that captured the imagination instead of music stores.

 

[shooter]

I can't actually remember the last time i went to a shopping centre, i buy everything on-line except food shopping. We go to London now and then for the novelty and have a look about but rarely buy anything. Christmas is a time i may go, but thats only if im bored.