Is there any physical difference in the speaker cable between normal and bi-wire or is biwire just two lengths of ordinary wire wrapped in a sheath for convenience? If there's no difference, could you split the cable at each end if , for example, you wanted to use your biwire cable in a bi-amp set up ? Steve
Whats the difference between normal speaker cable and biwire speaker cable ?
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4 strands as opposed to two or 2x2 of the same cable.i find no difference if i biwire imo waste of money.
[quote user="gregory"]4 strands as opposed to two or 2x2 of the same cable.i find no difference if i biwire imo waste of money.[/quote]
i almost agree the improvements are marginals at best itried with 3 diferent amps and 3 diferent speakers only to find a tinny improvement biamping on the other hand works and the diference is very very much in your face
i almost agree the improvements are marginals at best itried with 3 diferent amps and 3 diferent speakers only to find a tinny improvement biamping on the other hand works and the diference is very very much in your face
Biwiring is a very personal thing in that some people (like me), can hear its effects ( even blind tested ) while others can not. I don't like using "off the shelf" bi wire cable as this imo limits the flexibility that biwiring can give you. I find that by using different cables for the treble and bass parts, it is possible to tailor the sound (without tone controls). I used to use Linn cable for bass and Audioquest Midnight of the top end. These sounded quite balanced for my Glastoburys. I recently upgraded one of my cables to the Isolda with dramatic improvments. I got the best if I used the Isolda as the bass/mid cable. I currently have the Linn as the top. I am not totally happy with the Linn and will substitute it with the midnight which (if you parden the pun) has a darker sound. All I can recomend to you is do a bit of experimenting with different cables, biwire cables etc.. You don't need expensive cables to prove/disprove the benefits/principles of biwiring.
i dont understand this,you was happy before with your previous configuration, now you want to change it around again because your not happy with the linn cable but there is a dramatic improvement with the isolda cable.i look forward to your comments because i am confused.i hope it works out for you but i still believe there is no difference in biwiring.
Whats the difference between normal speaker cable and biwire speaker cable ? Cost more - not much else imo.....no war pls Ant, just my 2 pounds worth.
I can hear the difference between bi-wiring and single wiring, and I preferred the single wire option with my old Mission 780SE's. My current speakers I can only single wire so I dont have that distraction (and imo it is just a distraction - not being able to biwire does not mean the speakers are going to sound any worse than competitors. It's only a problem if you want to bi-amp).
Some interesting points, fellas, but I think we've strayed off the point.
My question was not whether there are benefits to be had by biwiring.
My question was - if I decide to biwire is there any difference between using two lengths of standard wire or one length of biwire? For example is QED Silver Anniversary XT biwire just two lengths of normal XT wire wrapped in one sheath or is it inherently a different type of cable ?
My question was not whether there are benefits to be had by biwiring.
My question was - if I decide to biwire is there any difference between using two lengths of standard wire or one length of biwire? For example is QED Silver Anniversary XT biwire just two lengths of normal XT wire wrapped in one sheath or is it inherently a different type of cable ?
[quote user="gregory"]i dont understand this,you was happy before with your previous configuration, now you want to change it around again because your not happy with the linn cable but there is a dramatic improvement with the isolda cable.i look forward to your comments because i am confused.i hope it works out for you but i still believe there is no difference in biwiring.[/quote]
A lot of Hifi enthusiasts are on a quest to get the best
sound they possibly can. Though I was happy with the general sound of my set up
(Audioquest/Linn/Glastonbury) I am on the quest to improve my sound. I got the opportunity
to get some Isolda cable (which is highly regarded by the HiFi press and made
by the same company which manufactured my speakers (which I highly regard)).
The immediate change in putting the Isolda (in single wire config) over the
previous set up was a clearer more immediate midrange/smoother treble/extended
but tight bass. I tried out a biwire Isolda/Linn config. Firstly using the
Isolda for the treble and Linn for the bass gave a poorer sound then the Isolda
on its own- by some margin.
Then I had the Isolda feed the bass/mid and the Linn feed
the top. This yielded the best sound. In order of preferred sound:
Isolda
(bass)/Linn (top)Isolda
(single wire)Linn
(bass)/Audioquest (top)Linn
(bass)/ Isolda (top)
Over a period of time I have become more and more convinced
that the top was now not a clear or controlled as Linn (bass)/Audioquest (top)
combo. I believe I was in error in that I assumed the Linn was better then the
Audioquest and not proven it so.
The thing that is particularly clear to me was that Isolda(bass)/Linn(top) sounded very different to Linn(bass)/Isolda(top). IMO this result is an additional benefit to the technical benefits the biwiring has.
I hope this has cleared a bit of your confusion. Now as to answering the the question:
Whats the difference between normal speaker cable and biwire speaker cable ? Nothing except the biwired cable has 4 conductors instead of 2.
I felt obliged to give my opinion that biwiring does work as some else had already volunteered their opinion that it was a waste of time. I also felt obliged to explain why I wouldn't use biwire speaker cable (the reasons restated above).
Thaiman - I would have been dissapointed if you didn't give your opinion. There is no danger of a war.
A lot of Hifi enthusiasts are on a quest to get the best
sound they possibly can. Though I was happy with the general sound of my set up
(Audioquest/Linn/Glastonbury) I am on the quest to improve my sound. I got the opportunity
to get some Isolda cable (which is highly regarded by the HiFi press and made
by the same company which manufactured my speakers (which I highly regard)).
The immediate change in putting the Isolda (in single wire config) over the
previous set up was a clearer more immediate midrange/smoother treble/extended
but tight bass. I tried out a biwire Isolda/Linn config. Firstly using the
Isolda for the treble and Linn for the bass gave a poorer sound then the Isolda
on its own- by some margin.
Then I had the Isolda feed the bass/mid and the Linn feed
the top. This yielded the best sound. In order of preferred sound:
Isolda
(bass)/Linn (top)Isolda
(single wire)Linn
(bass)/Audioquest (top)Linn
(bass)/ Isolda (top)
Over a period of time I have become more and more convinced
that the top was now not a clear or controlled as Linn (bass)/Audioquest (top)
combo. I believe I was in error in that I assumed the Linn was better then the
Audioquest and not proven it so.
The thing that is particularly clear to me was that Isolda(bass)/Linn(top) sounded very different to Linn(bass)/Isolda(top). IMO this result is an additional benefit to the technical benefits the biwiring has.
I hope this has cleared a bit of your confusion. Now as to answering the the question:
Whats the difference between normal speaker cable and biwire speaker cable ? Nothing except the biwired cable has 4 conductors instead of 2.
I felt obliged to give my opinion that biwiring does work as some else had already volunteered their opinion that it was a waste of time. I also felt obliged to explain why I wouldn't use biwire speaker cable (the reasons restated above).
Thaiman - I would have been dissapointed if you didn't give your opinion. There is no danger of a war.
In general it does seem that many cable manufacturers just put two sets of the same cable together to make it a bi-wire cable. However, there is one respected cable manufacturer I know of called Ecosse who do use different cables in their bi-wire form one to drive the bass and mid and a different cable to drive the tweeters. I say rspected as they have won awards for their cables and Andrew Everard recommended them to me for my system.
As to whether they make a difference well everyone will always say for you personally only listening yourself before you buy will tell you. Fine advice but not always practicable.
As to whether they make a difference well everyone will always say for you personally only listening yourself before you buy will tell you. Fine advice but not always practicable.
[quote user="pompeyexile"]As to whether they make a difference well everyone will always say for you personally only listening yourself before you buy will tell you. Fine advice but not always practicable.[/quote]
True but that applies to any subjective matter including hifi as a whole.
True but that applies to any subjective matter including hifi as a whole.
[quote user="pompeyexile"]In general it does seem that many cable manufacturers just put two sets of the same cable together to make it a bi-wire cable. However, there is one respected cable manufacturer I know of called Ecosse who do use different cables in their bi-wire form one to drive the bass and mid and a different cable to drive the tweeters. I say rspected as they have won awards for their cables and Andrew Everard recommended them to me for my system.
As to whether they make a difference well everyone will always say for you personally only listening yourself before you buy will tell you. Fine advice but not always practicable.[/quote]
actually they are not the only manufacturer to do this... i owned some IXOS biwire cable for a while (when is still had my MS 902's) and the cables for bass/mid were noticebly larger than the ones for the tweeters... something to do with higher demand from the bass/mid drivers or something.... i definately noticed the improvement in sound when i bi-wired my 902's (using only a Arcam Alpha 8)but oddly when i bi-amped them with alpha 8+alpha 8p setup i noticed no difference :-/
As to whether they make a difference well everyone will always say for you personally only listening yourself before you buy will tell you. Fine advice but not always practicable.[/quote]
actually they are not the only manufacturer to do this... i owned some IXOS biwire cable for a while (when is still had my MS 902's) and the cables for bass/mid were noticebly larger than the ones for the tweeters... something to do with higher demand from the bass/mid drivers or something.... i definately noticed the improvement in sound when i bi-wired my 902's (using only a Arcam Alpha 8)but oddly when i bi-amped them with alpha 8+alpha 8p setup i noticed no difference :-/
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]just buy a more expensive single wire pair?[/quote]
no get the cable u like and then cut about 2 inches of the end of the cable and loop it to the second sets of terminal you get the same resoults at cheaper prices and less cables to worryn about
no get the cable u like and then cut about 2 inches of the end of the cable and loop it to the second sets of terminal you get the same resoults at cheaper prices and less cables to worryn about
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[/quote]
This is a question you will have to answer yourself. You need to be able to listen to the biwiring concept and judge for yourself -
1) can you hear a difference?
2) If so do you like the difference?
3) If you can hear a difference (and like it) ,can you reproduce it on a single cable?
If you ask anyone on this forum you will get a number of answers. I believe that biwiring works Sex, Thaiman and a few other don't.
But at the ends of the day it all boils down to you and what you hear. After all you are the one who has to live with the sound not any of us.
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[/quote]
This is a question you will have to answer yourself. You need to be able to listen to the biwiring concept and judge for yourself -
1) can you hear a difference?
2) If so do you like the difference?
3) If you can hear a difference (and like it) ,can you reproduce it on a single cable?
If you ask anyone on this forum you will get a number of answers. I believe that biwiring works Sex, Thaiman and a few other don't.
But at the ends of the day it all boils down to you and what you hear. After all you are the one who has to live with the sound not any of us.
[quote user="Anton90125"]
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[/quote]
This is a question you will have to answer yourself. You need to be able to listen to the biwiring concept and judge for yourself -
1) can you hear a difference?
2) If so do you like the difference?
3) If you can hear a difference (and like it) ,can you reproduce it on a single cable?
If you ask anyone on this forum you will get a number of answers. I believe that biwiring works Sex, Thaiman and a few other don't.
But at the ends of the day it all boils down to you and what you hear. After all you are the one who has to live with the sound not any of us.
[/quote]
There's no way I can go that since they none of the stores here stock any of the major (well rated) cable brands - except for one place (QED) and even then they will have to get in a reel of that particular model if I choose to order it. There is no way to hear or compare before buying.
(connecting an Arcam Alpha 9 to the 685
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[/quote]
This is a question you will have to answer yourself. You need to be able to listen to the biwiring concept and judge for yourself -
1) can you hear a difference?
2) If so do you like the difference?
3) If you can hear a difference (and like it) ,can you reproduce it on a single cable?
If you ask anyone on this forum you will get a number of answers. I believe that biwiring works Sex, Thaiman and a few other don't.
But at the ends of the day it all boils down to you and what you hear. After all you are the one who has to live with the sound not any of us.
[/quote]
There's no way I can go that since they none of the stores here stock any of the major (well rated) cable brands - except for one place (QED) and even then they will have to get in a reel of that particular model if I choose to order it. There is no way to hear or compare before buying.
(connecting an Arcam Alpha 9 to the 685
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]There's no way I can go that since they none of the stores here stock any of the major (well rated) cable brands - except for one place (QED) and even then they will have to get in a reel of that particular model if I choose to order it. There is no way to hear or compare before buying.[/quote]
Plenty of thick stranded copper is what you need. Don't get hung up on brands and metals or pay silly prices, copper is only slightly less conductive than silver and you just need to keep paralleling it up until you no longer hear any improvement. All the brands are badging, that's all. You can experiment with biwiring and see if it makes a difference at the same time.
Plenty of thick stranded copper is what you need. Don't get hung up on brands and metals or pay silly prices, copper is only slightly less conductive than silver and you just need to keep paralleling it up until you no longer hear any improvement. All the brands are badging, that's all. You can experiment with biwiring and see if it makes a difference at the same time.
[quote user="sex"][quote user="Captain Destructo"]just buy a more expensive single wire pair?[/quote] no get the cable u like and then cut about 2 inches of the end of the cable and loop it to the second sets of terminal you get the same resoults at cheaper prices and less cables to worryn about[/quote]
Can you really do this? Or isn't this the same as using the terminal plate that's there, connecting the two sets of posts on the back of the speakers anyway?
Sorry, if I'm not getting it.. Often, I need a slap across the face with a wet fish, to understand things
Can you really do this? Or isn't this the same as using the terminal plate that's there, connecting the two sets of posts on the back of the speakers anyway?
Sorry, if I'm not getting it.. Often, I need a slap across the face with a wet fish, to understand things
What he is saying is forget about biwiring and use the second 2" piece as a jumper between the treble and bass. The effective turns the speaker into a single wire speaker. If you can hear the difference with biwiring, you would lose it this set up, If you can't then it will sound the same.
Yes but surely using a 2" piece of speaker cable to loop is the same as having the jumper plates in? Unless you're telling me that due to the difference in the two conductors (jumper plate & speaker cable) there is an audible difference in using the two methods? I bought bi-wire, sounds exactly the same, left it bi-wired as I've bought it now and its supposedly better....
[quote user="joeparnell"]
Yes but surely using a 2" piece of speaker cable to loop is the same as having the jumper plates in? Unless you're telling me that due to the difference in the two conductors (jumper plate & speaker cable) there is an audible difference in using the two methods? I bought bi-wire, sounds exactly the same, left it bi-wired as I've bought it now and its supposedly better....
[/quote]
Yes, I am saying that. As for the difference between jumper plates an wire- I already posted a question which I got no sensible answers - Link. I am pro biwire can tell fairly easily. I also use different cables for bass and treble to tailor the sound (Its interesting that if use different cables to bass and treble and swap them over you get a very different sound). Maybe now you are used the sound of your system , try it in a single wire mod and see if your are still satisfied.
Yes but surely using a 2" piece of speaker cable to loop is the same as having the jumper plates in? Unless you're telling me that due to the difference in the two conductors (jumper plate & speaker cable) there is an audible difference in using the two methods? I bought bi-wire, sounds exactly the same, left it bi-wired as I've bought it now and its supposedly better....
[/quote]
Yes, I am saying that. As for the difference between jumper plates an wire- I already posted a question which I got no sensible answers - Link. I am pro biwire can tell fairly easily. I also use different cables for bass and treble to tailor the sound (Its interesting that if use different cables to bass and treble and swap them over you get a very different sound). Maybe now you are used the sound of your system , try it in a single wire mod and see if your are still satisfied.
[quote user="Anton90125"]
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[/quote]
This is a question you will have to answer yourself. You need to be able to listen to the biwiring concept and judge for yourself -
1) can you hear a difference?
2) If so do you like the difference?
3) If you can hear a difference (and like it) ,can you reproduce it on a single cable?
If you ask anyone on this forum you will get a number of answers. I believe that biwiring works Sex, Thaiman and a few other don't.
But at the ends of the day it all boils down to you and what you hear. After all you are the one who has to live with the sound not any of us.
[/quote]
i agree its wat you hear that matters not my or any bodyelse opinion
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[/quote]
This is a question you will have to answer yourself. You need to be able to listen to the biwiring concept and judge for yourself -
1) can you hear a difference?
2) If so do you like the difference?
3) If you can hear a difference (and like it) ,can you reproduce it on a single cable?
If you ask anyone on this forum you will get a number of answers. I believe that biwiring works Sex, Thaiman and a few other don't.
But at the ends of the day it all boils down to you and what you hear. After all you are the one who has to live with the sound not any of us.
[/quote]
i agree its wat you hear that matters not my or any bodyelse opinion
[quote user="sex"][quote user="Anton90125"]
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[/quote]
This is a question you will have to answer yourself. You need to be able to listen to the biwiring concept and judge for yourself -
1) can you hear a difference?
2) If so do you like the difference?
3) If you can hear a difference (and like it) ,can you reproduce it on a single cable?
If you ask anyone on this forum you will get a number of answers. I believe that biwiring works Sex, Thaiman and a few other don't.
But at the ends of the day it all boils down to you and what you hear. After all you are the one who has to live with the sound not any of us.
[/quote] i agree its wat you hear that matters not my or any bodyelse opinion[/quote]
But what happen if you already bought the cables hoping to hear the different and you can't! That's why he asked in the first place. "Get a demo" is an easiest way to answer in the forum but sometime it's not that easy in practice.....and I have a flu [crying icon here]
[quote user="Captain Destructo"]
Is it worth bi-wiring a pair of B&W 685's with QED silver anniversary biwire cables? Or is it better to just buy a more expensive single wire pair?
[/quote]
This is a question you will have to answer yourself. You need to be able to listen to the biwiring concept and judge for yourself -
1) can you hear a difference?
2) If so do you like the difference?
3) If you can hear a difference (and like it) ,can you reproduce it on a single cable?
If you ask anyone on this forum you will get a number of answers. I believe that biwiring works Sex, Thaiman and a few other don't.
But at the ends of the day it all boils down to you and what you hear. After all you are the one who has to live with the sound not any of us.
[/quote] i agree its wat you hear that matters not my or any bodyelse opinion[/quote]
But what happen if you already bought the cables hoping to hear the different and you can't! That's why he asked in the first place. "Get a demo" is an easiest way to answer in the forum but sometime it's not that easy in practice.....and I have a flu [crying icon here]
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