What One Item to Improve?

[Nico69]

Hi All,

I have an older system that has a Rotel RA-930ax amp; Technics SL-PG480 CD player and Tannoy Mercury M2 Speakers - all 1997 What Hi-Fi award winning components and all still producing great sound along with a Linn Axis deck with a K9 Cartridge. Now with an Echo Dot to stream Amazon Music (not HD or Unlimited) - which I'm quite ahppy with for now.

I'm overall quite happy with the system, though it does have quite a warm sound that is easy to listen to, sometimes I feel that it lacks something. Not sure what, maybe a bit of clarity or timing? I know the speakers are not quite optimally placed but they are as near as I can get them to s sensible position.

So, if I was to change one item from the above setup what would it be? Budget of £300-400

Thanks

Nico.

 

[Al ears]

I would be looking at either end of you system. So that cartridge must be getting on a bit and I would start by replacing that.

 

[Nico69]

I would be looking at either end of you system. So that cartridge must be getting on a bit and I would start by replacing that.

The cartridge and stylus are fine. It came from a friend who had it but immediately upgraded to a K18 when he bought his deck. Sat in a draw for many years unused. Sounds much much better than a brand new AT95 that I had installed previously so I'd say that it's OK for now. Considering putting on a Paratrace or Microlinear stylus in the future.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

So you're happy with the cart so it will need be the other end - speakers, but you're not going to get much of an upgrade with £3-400, just a sideways move to maybe a brighter speaker. Don't go down the cable route.

 

[Nico69]

So you're happy with the cart so it will need be the other end - speakers, but you're not going to get much of an upgrade with £3-400, just a sideways move to maybe a brighter speaker. Don't go down the cable route.

That's useful to know. Thanks.
I seem to recall I installed pretty good speaker cable and inter-connects at the time. Can't remember what brand they were but they were a significant part of the budget I set.

One thing that annoys me is that the speaker terminals on the Tannoy M2's have binding posts that have a very small cental hole that I could not find small enough banana plugs to fit into. Consequently I had them first set up with bare wire around the terminals, but the wire has quite a few stands and was thick and untidy. Now I have the wire terminated in banana plugs and these clamped into the hole that goes sideways through the binding posts rather than into the top. Is this OK?

 

[Nico69]

Just to add the Tannoy M2's are sitting on sand filled Atacama SE24 stands.
(you can tell I was an avid reader of What Hifi back in the 90's!)

 

[gasolin]

A new amp with a dac

Denon PMA-600NE or a Marantz PM6006

I think you would get better sound and more power when playing loud, when you buy a used cdplayer (£50 ish) with a digital out you could get better sound from your cdplayer by using it with the digital inputs on the amp, theres even a little left for a good quality digital cable if you happen to need one.

 

[Al ears]

That's useful to know. Thanks.
I seem to recall I installed pretty good speaker cable and inter-connects at the time. Can't remember what brand they were but they were a significant part of the budget I set.

One thing that annoys me is that the speaker terminals on the Tannoy M2's have binding posts that have a very small cental hole that I could not find small enough banana plugs to fit into. Consequently I had them first set up with bare wire around the terminals, but the wire has quite a few stands and was thick and untidy. Now I have the wire terminated in banana plugs and these clamped into the hole that goes sideways through the binding posts rather than into the top. Is this OK?

Yes.

 

[Al ears]

The cartridge and stylus are fine. It came from a friend who had it but immediately upgraded to a K18 when he bought his deck. Sat in a draw for many years unused. Sounds much much better than a brand new AT95 that I had installed previously so I'd say that it's OK for now. Considering putting on a Paratrace or Microlinear stylus in the future.

Elastomers in a cartridge will break down over time whether used or not however, if you're happy with it....

 

[MeanandGreen]

In my opinion the best upgrade by far to make to your system would be the speakers.
the M2s are really quite dull. I used to own the M2.5 and although they make everything sound easy to listen to, they lack clarity and music which should sound lively, just doesn’t.

Going from your description that something is lacking I strongly believe it’s your Tannoy M2 speakers to blame.

Even some used B&W DM 601 or 602 S3 would bring a significant improvement in bringing back that little something which is now missing. It also wouldn’t be very expensive.

 

[MeanandGreen]

That's useful to know. Thanks.
I seem to recall I installed pretty good speaker cable and inter-connects at the time. Can't remember what brand they were but they were a significant part of the budget I set.

One thing that annoys me is that the speaker terminals on the Tannoy M2's have binding posts that have a very small cental hole that I could not find small enough banana plugs to fit into. Consequently I had them first set up with bare wire around the terminals, but the wire has quite a few stands and was thick and untidy. Now I have the wire terminated in banana plugs and these clamped into the hole that goes sideways through the binding posts rather than into the top. Is this OK?

Also on your binding posts at the top are a small red and black, blanking plug. You can prise these out and plug your banana plugs in there.

That‘s assuming the M2 had the same terminals as the M2.5 I had. I believe the differences between the two were different baffles and a domed dust cap on the mid/bass driver mainly.

 

[Nico69]

Also on your binding posts at the top are a small red and black, blanking plug. You can prise these out and plug your banana plugs in there.

That‘s assuming the M2 had the same terminals as the M2.5 I had. I believe the differences between the two were different baffles and a domed dust cap on the mid/bass driver mainly.

Yes, that's what I thought too. Prised them out but too small for banana plug to fit (same size banana plugs that fit the speaker outlet on the amp). Are there specially small plugs to fit speakers?

 

[Nintendologist]

This is not meant to be facetious and I'm not planning to delve into your medical history(!) but the best upgrade experienced to my system personally was due to having my ears syringed 🙂

I'm a fit, well 30-something with no past issues with hearing and didn't think I really needed any intervention. However, I got talking to a medical friend who recommended having the procedure done. I realise not everyone will be up for it, and it's not the most pleasant (although it doesn't hurt etc) but the difference to my hearing in general afterwards is amazing.

Oddly I thought I had some sort of room acoustic issue with the LHS of my system for a while now, but now it's mysteriously fixed haha!

I'm sure this post will get a few raised eyebrows, and I promise I'm not being incentivised by the NHS 😊

 

[Nico69]

Also on your binding posts at the top are a small red and black, blanking plug. You can prise these out and plug your banana plugs in there.

That‘s assuming the M2 had the same terminals as the M2.5 I had. I believe the differences between the two were different baffles and a domed dust cap on the mid/bass driver mainly.

Found out after some research that they fitted binding posts that accept 3mm banana plugs instead of the usual 4mm! WHY!!!??

 

[Samd]

This is not meant to be facetious and I'm not planning to delve into your medical history(!) but the best upgrade experienced to my system personally was due to having my ears syringed 🙂

I'm a fit, well 30-something with no past issues with hearing and didn't think I really needed any intervention. However, I got talking to a medical friend who recommended having the procedure done. I realise not everyone will be up for it, and it's not the most pleasant (although it doesn't hurt etc) but the difference to my hearing in general afterwards is amazing.

Oddly I thought I had some sort of room acoustic issue with the LHS of my system for a while now, but now it's mysteriously fixed haha!

I'm sure this post will get a few raised eyebrows, and I promise I'm not being incentivised by the NHS 😊

Fairly recent change nationally certainly in operation with my GP practice.

Ear syringing is no longer considered to be the first line treatment for the clearing of ear wax and it is not a funded service within the NHS for General Practice. Current guidelines are that ear drops should be used to soften the wax which will then enable the natural movement of the wax from the ear.8 May 2019

 

[Deleted member 108165]

One member on here has had a really bad experience with ear syringing. I'll let him tell his story... it's not good.

 

[Gray]

This is not meant to be facetious and I'm not planning to delve into your medical history(!) but the best upgrade experienced to my system personally was due to having my ears syringed 🙂

I'm a fit, well 30-something with no past issues with hearing and didn't think I really needed any intervention. However, I got talking to a medical friend who recommended having the procedure done. I realise not everyone will be up for it, and it's not the most pleasant (although it doesn't hurt etc) but the difference to my hearing in general afterwards is amazing.

Oddly I thought I had some sort of room acoustic issue with the LHS of my system for a while now, but now it's mysteriously fixed haha!

I'm sure this post will get a few raised eyebrows, and I promise I'm not being incentivised by the NHS 😊

No raised eyebrows from me Nintendologist, I agree with all that you've said. Indeed, ages ago I posted on this forum to say that syringing was the best 'upgrade' I'd ever made.
However, as Sam has pointed out, in a lot of GP practices things have changed......

Fairly recent change nationally certainly in operation with my GP practice.

Ear syringing is no longer considered to be the first line treatment for the clearing of ear wax and it is not a funded service within the NHS for General Practice. Current guidelines are that ear drops should be used to soften the wax which will then enable the natural movement of the wax from the ear.8 May 2019

One member on here has had a really bad experience with ear syringing. I'll let him tell his story... it's not good.

I am that member. My problem was not with syringing but with the new alternative, 'Microsuction'. Doug's right about it not being a good story - one you should bother to read ONLY if you are considering medical earwax removal:
Many years ago I had ears syringed (done with an actual syringe) - no real benefit.
Around 5 or 6 years ago had another 'syringe' (this time a motorised swill out) - Fantastic, beneficial result.
More recently fancied having the same, revelatory hearing improvement again.
But, Doc advised no longer doing syringing due to 'risk' (more likely cost).
In October last year went to NHS hospital for microsuction - where the only advice I received was that it would be 'loud'.
I've stood underneath full-after-burner Concorde during takeoff. I've worked in live music venues with the loudest Punk / Rock bands....I've heard loud but this was excruciating. Twice, the nurse asked if I wanted the Doctor to stop - but I assumed he knew what he was doing.
Apparently not. I was left 90% deafer than I had been, with only tinnitus keeping me awake for a week.
2 casualty docs, 3 hearing speciallists and 1 GP later......I've still got a (different) hospital visit coming up in March.
I've since read a leading expert stating that, depending on debris, microsuction can reach 146dB at one c.m. from the eardrum. (I don't doubt it). He was making the point that only an idiot practitioner would hold that volume level for longer than necessary.
A subsequent speciallist advised that I'd originally been treated by a 'beginner' - but the point is the wax was too hard for him to remove - despite much (too much?) suction.
So here's the bottom line:
No way am I suggesting that my experience of microsuction has been typical. (Otherwise it would have already be banned) On the contrary, I've got no doubt that loads of people come out as happy as I did after syringing. But, if you go for it, ensure that you fully soften the earwax before the procedure - warmed olive oil is used by some but you may prefer Sodium Bicarbonate drops.
Better still, as in Sam's comment above, let your own softening encourage natural wax movement - and perhaps think of any medical intervention as a last resort option.

 

[Gray]

My apologies to OP, Nico69, for taking this thread well off of his subject.

The thread was called 'What one item to improve?' though and for those that need it, hearing is the number one item to (safely) improve if you can.

 

[MeanandGreen]

Found out after some research that they fitted binding posts that accept 3mm banana plugs instead of the usual 4mm! WHY!!!??

My M2.5 used to take 4mm plugs, so the M2 must have a different terminal.

I still say your speakers are the weak link as long as you feel that the deficiency is common across all sources.

 

[Greenwich_Man]

I was agree about the speakers. Take a good luck at what you can afford within your budget.