What is the future for cable debates?

[idc]

Can I respectfully suggest to the forum and the What hifi team that we should have a think about the future for cable debates. Without going into any detail about pros, cons and feasibility it seems to me that there are a number of options.........

1 - Have a specific part of the forum for them.

2 - Ban them.

3 - Have very specific house rules for such debates.

4 - Allow known and trusted forum members to be a part of the moderation process for early intervention.

5 - Maintain the status quo as none of the above are feasilble.

I have based the above options on what I have seen elsewhere, there are likely to be more options available. I have searched the forum but cannot find a specific debate about cable debates, so I don't think that I am re-visiting a previously discussed issue.

I hope that this becomes something constructive, that will improve the forum for all and provide a popular solution that What hifi can implement.

 

[Messiah]

6. Make all systems wireless (like wireless HDMI) and dispense with these 'debates' altogether

.

 

[Dave_]

7, Dont bother to read them.I dont anymore.

 

[plastic penguin]

Messiah:6. Make all systems wireless (like wireless HDMI) and dispense with these 'debates' altogether

.

7. Post them in the accessory section. unless you have wireless, then cable debates are essential to all systems. . .

 

[idc]

Messiah:6. Make all systems wireless (like wireless HDMI) and dispense with these 'debates' altogether

.

But then the new debate will be which wireless cable sounds better.........................or maybe not

 

[Anonymous]

8. Deploy Jack Bauer to severe peoples Internet connections? (Im currently watching 24 o/)

 

[Messiah]

daveh75:
7, Dont bother to read them. I dont anymore.

I'm with Dave on this actually. I just don't bother reading them....

 

[kena]

idc:

Messiah:6. Make all systems wireless (like wireless HDMI) and dispense with these 'debates' altogether

.

But then the new debate will be which wireless cable sounds better.........................or maybe not

Hope the Mods don't edit this post for selling

, But I will shortly have available Scottish air - It's musical properties for Wireless is unsurpassed in the whole of the UK due to its purity and conductivity and saturation levels ..Advance orders taken!!

 

[idc]

Messiah:daveh75:

7, Dont bother to read them. I dont anymore.

I'm with Dave on this actually. I just don't bother reading them....

Accepted, but that does not solve the problem for the forum as a whole. If there was a way to have such debates where they are informative and friendly would you re-join them? Or are you fed up, period?

 

[the record spot]

Temporary ban from the hi-fi sub-forum. E-mails to the offending parties, etc.

Must admit though, I can see this thread getting locked in the same way the other two did: "you should respect my opinion", "you don't know what you're talking about", "that's nothing, you should try a Dansette"...and so on.

 

[laserman16]

idc:Messiah:daveh75:

7, Dont bother to read them. I dont anymore.

I'm with Dave on this actually. I just don't bother reading them....

Accepted, but that does not solve the problem for the forum as a whole. If there was a way to have such debates where they are informative and friendly would you re-join them? Or are you fed up, period?

The problem is that some genuine people come on and ask what to them is a perfectly logical question about cables, they then must sometimes think they have started WW3.

What we don't need to do is put these people off asking these questions. Unfortunately how that can be done I am not quite sure.

 

[Dave_]

idc:Messiah:daveh75:

7, Dont bother to read them. I dont anymore.

I'm with Dave on this actually. I just don't bother reading them....

Accepted, but that does not solve the problem for the forum as a whole. If there was a way to have such debates where they are informative and friendly would you re-join them? Or are you fed up, period?
I'm done with them period!

 

[chebby]

I think we are 'discussing moderation' here.

Just leave it to the staff to decide.

It is their 'premises'.

As for myself, I don't have much to contribute to cable debates so I will pledge here to try and stay out of them completely and even ignore them from now on.

 

[Messiah]

idc:Messiah:daveh75:

7, Dont bother to read them. I dont anymore.

I'm with Dave on this actually. I just don't bother reading them....

Accepted, but that does not solve the problem for the forum as a whole. If there was a way to have such debates where they are informative and friendly would you re-join them? Or are you fed up, period?

I don't mind the debates really, it's just that they are all very similar. Once you have read one etc etc.....

I think the debates will always go down the same route because there are those that hear/see a difference and there are those that don't. I'm not really sure there is anything that can get done really as there are always new members who will be asking these questions.

Maybe a 'sticky' of the most common threads would be useful to stop it being asked so much??

 

[JoelSim]

I have to say I'm fed up of them too, I've found the last couple really demoralising and frustrating. It seems that ne'er the twain shall meet. So I'm keeping out of them from now on unless someone has asked for advice and I'm in a position to offer some through experience.

ÿ

 

[aliEnRIK]

the record spot:Temporary ban from the hi-fi sub-forum. E-mails to the offending parties, etc.

Must admit though, I can see this thread getting locked in the same way the other two did: "you should respect my opinion", "you don't know what you're talking about", "that's nothing, you should try a Dansette"...and so on.

Yes I agree. EVERYONE who even mentions cables and suchlike should get automatically banned

 

[Anonymous]

Same for "burn-in" and "racks" discussions? Mains conditioners? I noticed that people's opinions on such topics are often correlated: So there are Believers that either have better ears or are more gullable and Non-believers that believe that if there is no acceptable scientific theory then it can not be true, no need to listen. To be honest, I think there is a lot of nonsense in manufacturers' claims and I can see the point of the sceptics that we should not accept all nonsense - I agree with an earlier point of a poster that WHF and a forum like this could (should) play a role in separating nonsense from real improvements. And I certainly believe that placebo effects also exist, especially with something so tricky as one's perceptions. Wine in a nice cristal glass also tastes better than in a plastic beaker. But for the rest it is like a religious feud - no solution in sight and not even a basis to start a discussion, as no one is interested or willing to be convinced by the other. So the discussions between the two factions soon become repetitive, sometimes insulting, and often boring to the rest of the readers. So be it, as long as the WHF staff is willing to tolerate it.

Pete

 

[JoelSim]

Pete10:
Same for "burn-in" and "racks" discussions?ÿÿMains conditioners? Iÿnoticed that people's opinions on such topics are often correlated: So there are Believers that either have better ears or are more gullable and Non-believers that believe that if there is no acceptable scientific theory then it can not be true, no need to listen.ÿTo be honest, I think there is a lot of nonsense in manufacturers' claims and I can see the point of the sceptics that we should not accept all nonsense - I agree with an earlier point of a poster that WHF and a forum like this could (should) play a role in separating nonsense from real improvements. And I certainly believe that placebo effects also exist, especially with something so tricky as one's perceptions. Wine in a nice cristal glass also tastes better than in a plastic beaker. But for the rest it is like a religious feudÿ- no solution in sight and not even a basis to start a discussion, as no one is interestedÿor willing to be convinced by the other.ÿSo theÿdiscussions between the two factions soon become repetitive, sometimes insulting, and often boring to the rest of the readers. So be it, as long as the WHF staff is willing to tolerate it.

Pete

ÿ

They do Pete. All you have to do is click 'reviews' and look up various things. Some are 5*, some less so. All blind-tested in £1m listening facilities.

ÿ

ÿ

 

[idc]

The intention is very much to have a constructive debate about the future of such debates. Please refrain from slipping into the actual debate again!

I understand there are those who have expressed a desire to self moderate. But how long will that last for? We do enjoy a good debate after all.

My preference is to have a specific part of the forum dedicated to such debates and that it is heavily moderated.

 

[Anonymous]

I personally find them quite amusing! although in not prone to join myself ive passed many a happy hour being a voyeur and watching the posts become more and more heated Kinda like having a ringside seat....

runs and hides

 

[Anonymous]

With respect to all concerned, and I really do mean that - I don't mean to offend - it seems that the majority of posts to cable debates do nothing to actually further the debate. They often fall into one of the following categories:

People who haven't tried, and don't believe they make a difference. I don't see how these people can advance the debate in any meaningful fashion.

People who have tried, have found they made no difference, but forget that cables made no difference to their ears, in their system, and in their listening context. There is a tendency among many such posts to forget that the lack of results that these people have experienced does not mean that others will necessarily have the same experience.

People who have tried, have found they did make a difference, but fail to see why other people might be interested to see some kind of basic scientific backing behind these effects. In fact they frequently get very upset and even agressive at the mere suggestion that scientific backing would be desirable. Again, I would suggest that these posts do little to further the debate.

Just my thoughts, and as I say, I hope I haven't offended anyone. That certainly isn't my intention.

 

[idc]

I also enjoy them, untill the inevitable end game starts. That is why I would prefer them not to be banned, as they are elsewhere.

A What hifi invited persons only debate between Russ Andrews and some cable makers vs some knowledgeable, electronically (you know what I mean) qualified engineers who also know about hifi would be fun to watch.

 

[Messiah]

idc:

A What hifi invited persons only debate between Russ Andrews and some cable makers vs some knowledgeable, electronically (you know what I mean) qualified engineers who also know about hifi would be fun to watch.

I can only see that ending one way....

 

[PJPro]

Why not simply do double blind testing within the Big Question piece in the mag?

To go the whole hog, one would canvas opinion to devise the best way to do it and then run the test.

I would propose that the believers attempt to establish the differences between the cables. The non-believers either conduct or observe the tests.

I'm sure this would be a popular article for the mag and would provide a definitive position for the forum.

 

[PJPro]

Indeed, it wouldn't need to be in the mag....just written up as an online article.