What file type & media player would you suggest for best possible sound from PC

[Anonymous]

My current set up Comprises a Dell Laptop, 1TB external HD, connected to a Fubar III and then an Arcam A85. I use Dbpoweramp for ripping and J.River with Asio for playback. I'll give a brief run down of the different programs I have tried and my opinions;

Ripping:

1: DbPoweramp very flexible, confirmed accuracy of rips, good artwork function, its not free however.

2: Eac confirmed accuracy, no artwork function, I also found it a little complicated. Its free.

3: I have also used iTunes to rip with error correction, it was fine with good CD's, struggled with some, no accuracy confirmation, it doesn't tag artwork in the music file.

Playback:

1: Media Monkey with Asio, good sound, decent interface, its free, there is and iPhone app for control.

2: J.River with Asio, good sound, loads of features, great interface. It's complicated, not a great iPhone App,but other options.

3: Foobar with Asio, good sound, basic interface. Can be customized, need some PC knowledge for this.

4: iTunes, decent interface, don't know if bit perfect playback is possible on a PC.

5: WMP it wasn't able to locate all music on my HDD, I only got that far, all of the above programs had no such problems.

Files:

01: My working library is in AIFF uncompressed, i used this only as I was testing programs and iTunes and J.River replay it. AIFF also tags better than WAV. My Archive copy is in FLAC

02: If you are using a PC with only 1 copy of your Music, FLAC is probably the best option, it's lossless, supports tagging. I would suggest ripping a CD in WAV or AIFF, and then FLAC and compare the sound, if you do not hear a difference go with FLAC.

Most people strive to get the best possible sound, but using a Computer as a source opens up a whole new set of options, Such as the interface,and functionality. Its also opens up a whole new can of worms for people who love tweaking..

Regards Craig

 

[SteveR750]

Well I am not 1/3 into my collection:

Ripping using WMP lossless (the first 20 or so are WAV)

Playing using WMP - the file structure works OK for me, I know my way round Windows so its easy to modify files etc using W7. Now, if I decide to change the player, I presume that there are file converters from WMP lossless to itunes / FLAC / WAV etc so I can import into another programme....

 

[Gerrardasnails]

SteveR750:
Well I am not 1/3 into my collection:

Ripping using WMP lossless (the first 20 or so are WAV)

Playing using WMP - the file structure works OK for me, I know my way round Windows so its easy to modify files etc using W7. Now, if I decide to change the player, I presume that there are file converters from WMP lossless to itunes / FLAC / WAV etc so I can import into another programme....

Steve. I made my comment on this thread when I was a bit less knowledgeable than I am now. For me it now isn't important as I use a Popcorn Hour to play my music but if you want the best quality, I would advise against WMP and WMA Lossless files. PJ Pro has one train of thought with F2K (Foobar 2000) and I prefer J River Media Center. However, we both agree that the sound using FLAC via the bit perfect path of ASIO or WASAPI makes for better sound. WMP doesn't allow you bit perfect sound and you will find that everything on your DacMagic will show 48khz even when you rip at 44.1khz or buy a 96khz high def download. You can use various software to re-convert from lossless codecs to others (WMA Lossless to FLAC for instance), I use dBpoweramp which is free and very good and quick. I use J River when in my office but only through cheap active speakers. The interface is fantastic and the jukebox looks every bit as good as iTunes if not better.

 

[SteveR750]

Thanks Gerrard, yes I noticed the 48Khz was lit and wondered what that was about - I assumed it was an issue with the optical out wndows driver config, so left it alone on the default factory setting....

So can I convert my WMP lossless files into FLAC using dBpoweramp?

Right now I just want to upload everything so I can play it. The tweaking can come later, assuming it can be done!
Edit:seem like the general web view of WMP lossless is don't! OK so 50% of my files are now in wma format and the rest in WAV. I'm installing itunes, as I have used it before and after all I have an ipod. I'll see if it imports wma files, suspect not, so will have to do a conversion first.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

SteveR750:
Thanks Gerrard, yes I noticed the 48Khz was lit and wondered what that was about - I assumed it was an issue with the optical out wndows driver config, so left it alone on the default factory setting....

So can I convert my WMP lossless files into FLAC using dBpoweramp?

Right now I just want to upload everything so I can play it. The tweaking can come later, assuming it can be done!

No worries. Yes, dBpoweramp will do that and it doesn't take long either.

 

[SteveR750]

Looks like I can get away with te free trial too, as I dont intend to keep using it....

 

[SteveR750]

Right, now I am getting int unknown territory here, ad this is why apple gets on my proverbials. iTunes has automatically imported everything from my music folder, no problem with that, but at what level? It is converting all wma files, but lossless?? Do you need to "uncodec" wma to flac (1411 kbs bit rate?) for apples lossless to "work"? More to the point why doesn't itunes ask before importing; what quality etc? I'm starting to get annoyed now...Kandy K2..??

 

[Gerrardasnails]

SteveR750:Right, now I am getting int unknown territory here, ad this is why apple gets on my proverbials. iTunes has automatically imported everything from my music folder, no problem with that, but at what level? It is converting all wma files, but lossless?? Do you need to "uncodec" wma to flac (1411 kbs bit rate?) for apples lossless to "work"? More to the point why doesn't itunes ask before importing; what quality etc? I'm starting to get annoyed now...Kandy K2..??

Why are you sing iTunes? I would convert all your files to FLAC first. J River has a jukebox that's free. Give it a go.

 

[SteveR750]

Because its "easy". I gave up on dBpoweramp when it asked for money and the instructions shows windows screenshots....its just too much hassle

 

[Gerrardasnails]

SteveR750:Because its "easy". I gave up on dBpoweramp when it asked for money and the instructions shows windows screenshots....its just too much hassle

http://filehippo.com/download_dbpoweramp_music_converter/

 

[Alantiggger]

J River and Foobar are both real good... try em both.

 

[SteveR750]

well itunes in typical apple megalomaniac style won't d/load album info unless you have an account, and guess what, their website is designed to fit to a macbook and not an HD PC scree, and there is no way of scrolling down the page to fill it in. At fit to page its just too small to read. Steve Jobs you are a *****!

I am soooo glad I didn't buy a Mac now!

 

[Craig M.]

yes, but if you had, setting up an itunes account would've been easy!

you'd also be getting bitperfect output, without any faffing.

 

[SteveR750]

But why should I have to set up an account to tag music I have already paid for!! No, this time MS is better. Its like the Android vs Iphone debate, same reason I bought an HTC.

EDIT OK its late but comparing the same tracks i.e ripped by WMP and ripped by itunes vs importing each others then its surprisingly I find WMP much better. Much more open, airiness to the sound - itunes sounds like MP3 in comparison. Maybe it's a Sony optical driver thing, but ultimately well, what's the fuss about....this needs more listening.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

SteveR750:
But why should I have to set up an account to tag music I have already paid for!! No, this time MS is better. Its like the Android vs Iphone debate, same reason I bought an HTC.

EDIT OK its late but comparing the same tracks i.e ripped by WMP and ripped by itunes vs importing each others then its surprisingly I find WMP much better. Much more open, airiness to the sound - itunes sounds like MP3 in comparison. Maybe it's a Sony optical driver thing, but ultimately well, what's the fuss about....this needs more listening.

I found that too and then J River was another step up from WMP. As for album artwork, you can get your whole library to be scanned using the Internet and you can pick the best quality cover available.

 

[SteveR750]

Will give J River a go, I see it will import various compressed lossless files too, so I have not wasted my time ripping so far.

I have uninstalled itunes - surprisingly the format was poorer than the latest version of WMP, there where a load of unknown album trackes just clumped togther as one list at the bottom of my albume list. It wasn't obvious how to re-arrange them, grid view was little help, wheareas at least WMP's default view is logicals and very easy to find an albume (which is after all how CDs are stored). So my personal reccommendation for W7 64 bit users is WMP over itunes for ease of use and for SQ.

 

[SteveR750]

OK have installed J River and dBpoweramp. I tried converting one of the albums ripped in WAV, but notice two things:

1. I could only do one album at a time (I haven't tried batch conversion, assume this will do everything in My Music folder)

2. It leaves the original copy behind, so effectively means adding about 60% more HDD spoace requirements. I can't see an obvious setting to replace original file which is what I want it to do. Having to manually delete every WAV file is simply not even worth thinking about.

I suspect that the most effective solution is to simply delete every single album that I have ripped so far, and start again, but that prospect is not particularly attractive obviously..I'm getting seriously bored with the whole saga....

 

[pwiles1968]

SteveR750:Right, now I am getting int unknown territory here, ad this is why apple gets on my proverbials. iTunes has automatically imported everything from my music folder, no problem with that, but at what level? It is converting all wma files, but lossless?? Do you need to "uncodec" wma to flac (1411 kbs bit rate?) for apples lossless to "work"? More to the point why doesn't itunes ask before importing; what quality etc? I'm starting to get annoyed now...Kandy K2..??

It should have asked you whne you installed if you want to go look for music, I always say no then manually select the folder I want to import from. WRT the import level that is under Settings General Import settings I do not believe this only applies to CD import, I set this to Apple lossless and Use error correction. It takes a little getting used to and I have had quite a few headaches using iTunes on a PC but once I got used to it it is really good.

Main Settings for Me Keep Media Folder organised is on, Copy Files off, Rip as lossless (as above), I manually select the folder where I store my Main music files, For Playback Sound enhancer and sound check OFF, I think thease modify the audio which for me is bad IMO they reduce SQ, and I max out the Volume in iTunes and on PC then control the Level at my AMP, make sure your PC sound card has the same format set as your source material, for me this is 16bit 44.1khz..

 

[SteveR750]

Well tried dBpoweramp, and it took 25 minutes to rip half a CD....this was on burst setting (i.e no error recovery) using accurrip check, and compression level of 5 default....somethingngs not write (intended) here...back to WMP for the time being.

 

[harveymt]

Slightly off topc here but regarding the whole WASAPI/Kernel stuff. That's the one area I'm struggling with. Currently I use iTunes with an Airport Express. No DAC at the mo just have the Express plugged directly into amp. Does the fact Im wireless bypass this or am I still affected by it?

Given I'm using iTunes am I right in thinking there is no way round this? Been meaning to have a play with Foobar, might try J River now too but currently iTunes is doing everything I need.

Does the WASAPI/Kernel issue affect anything to do with Sonos, as that's the route I think I might eventually go down.

 

[Craig M.]

steve, maybe a browse of the computer audiophile forum would help? might help with deciding which software to use and how to configure it? i'd get that sorted before ripping anymore cd's, it should just be a case of insert cd, wait for it to eject, put next cd in, etc. with just the odd one requiring artwork or track listing changing manually.

don't give up though, once you have it all sorted i doubt very much if you would want to go back to a cdp.

 

[pwiles1968]

harveymt:
Slightly off topc here but regarding the whole WASAPI/Kernel stuff. That's the one area I'm struggling with. Currently I use iTunes with an Airport Express. No DAC at the mo just have the Express plugged directly into amp. Does the fact Im wireless bypass this or am I still affected by it?

I believe the iTunes to Express bypasses the Kernel so is Bit Perfect.

 

[Alec]

SteveR750:

But why should I have to set up an account to tag music I have already paid for!! No, this time MS is better. Its like the Android vs Iphone debate, same reason I bought an HTC.

EDIT OK its late but comparing the same tracks i.e ripped by WMP and ripped by itunes vs importing each others then its surprisingly I find WMP much better. Much more open, airiness to the sound - itunes sounds like MP3 in comparison. Maybe it's a Sony optical driver thing, but ultimately well, what's the fuss about....this needs more listening.

What format you rip in for the comparison?

Before I got Windows 7 I prefered itunes sound-wise, but now im not so sure. I agree with you about the better useability of WMP but horses for courses and all that.

Mp3tag is a good free programme for checking if your files are actually tagged in the true sense of the word, if you feel the need, but rippers such as dbpoweramp are good for tagging too.

I'm confused by your remark: "Edit:seem like the general web view of WMP lossless is don't!".

I personally would reccommend not using WAV for tagging reasons, but I wouldnt necessarily advise anyone not to use WMA Lossless, especially someone who likes WMP. It does depend what else you want to do with the file though in terms of using it with other devices such as MP3 players.

 

[SteveR750]

al7478:SteveR750:
But why should I have to set up an account to tag music I have already paid for!! No, this time MS is better. Its like the Android vs Iphone debate, same reason I bought an HTC.

EDIT OK its late but comparing the same tracks i.e ripped by WMP and ripped by itunes vs importing each others then its surprisingly I find WMP much better. Much more open, airiness to the sound - itunes sounds like MP3 in comparison. Maybe it's a Sony optical driver thing, but ultimately well, what's the fuss about....this needs more listening.

What format you rip in for the comparison?

Before I got Windows 7 I prefered itunes sound-wise, but now im not so sure. I agree with you about the better useability of WMP but horses for courses and all that.

Mp3tag is a good free programme for checking if your files are actually tagged in the true sense of the word, if you feel the need, but rippers such as dbpoweramp are good for tagging too.

I'm confused by your remark: "Edit:seem like the general web view of WMP lossless is don't!".

I personally would reccommend not using WAV for tagging reasons, but I wouldnt necessarily advise anyone not to use WMA Lossless, especially someone who likes WMP. It does depend what else you want to do with the file though in terms of using it with other devices such as MP3 players.

I just googled variations on a theme of WMP and WMA lossless......I think that most comments refer to wma files and Microsoft's cliams that they were better quality at lower bit rates than any other lossy codec.

I'm just using my ears, and so far I have compared the following:

Apple Lossless < WMA lossless (native ripped)

Itunes imported WAV < WMA .WAV file (wmp ripped)

WMP lossless = WAV (ripped by WMA)

WMP lossless = WAV (ripped by EAC)

Initially, WMP lossless ripped by WMP > J River wma lossless

and WMP lossless > (just, maybe not sure) J River WAV

WMP WAV >~ J River WAV

I have not configured J River to suit the DACmagic (wasio etc what's all that about then?), so maybe it's not optimised. But the speed of ripping, the ease of use of the library which is as / more logical than itunes, though admittedly I like the layout of J River, especially the technical information that is displayed that is missing with WMP...

 

[davydmx]

To the OP, regarding file storage and playback, my suggestion is: Use iTunes as the 'headquarters' for your files! By that i mean rip your cds/convert existing lossless into Apple friendly lossless format(Apple Lossless, AIFF), then populate iTunes with as much lossless as possible(my library contains around 20% mp3/aac lossy files, DJ mixes from internet, etc).

My reasoning is that iTunes is just epic for tagging, album art, creating mp3/aac for iPod, etc. All of these things(and other things) are just so straightfoward within ITunes. However, iTune's lack of bit-perfect output on pc, rules it out as credible playback software.

This is where Foobar/J River come in! I find either of them sound great, possibly the equal of anything else available for pc. Once your newly created ITunes library is consistent and organised, you download one of these 'bitperfect' capable players, install and add to them, plug-ins for WASAPI/ASIO/Kernal Streaming, if necessary. You then simply 'point' your 'new' player to location of your iTunes library, job done!

This arrangement works really well for me and isn't complicated at all. Over time you'd inevitably add more music to iTunes, correct typing errors in filenames, correct/improve quality of album art, etc. Of course, all this you (easily) do within iTunes, as it's the 'home' for all your files. Then when you fire up your 'sound quality' software, it'll reflect all those changes you've made in iTunes.