What do you think?

[plastic penguin]

The last two weeks I've had the DacMagic connected, using the 73T as transport. Thanks to Richer Sounds there's a digital coax and, thanks to my hoarding, using some old Chord Chrysalis interconnects.

The past two weeks has been a massive 'cutting of teeth' when it comes to DACs and transport. Didn't know what to expect, but had some fairly pleasant surprises and some 'No Nos'.

Firstly, the difference, albeit small, between the CD73 standalone and transport is the DAC + 73 is tonally. The Arcam is slightly more recessed and there's no problem with the Cambridge when it comes to brightness.

Most of the music: Rock, pop, Soul, R&B pretty much hits the spot. However, play some Adele 19 (Mrs. Ps CD) and some Labi Siffre's 'So Strong' album shows the DACs deficiencies. There's just a little shortfall in terms of vocal emotion or 'Soul'.

The question is how will this translate when it comes to streaming?

There is very little difference between the two, but where the Cambridge excels is in the a cleaner, detailed sound. The Arc, however, beats it in terms of bringing the music to life - it has a certain living or organic sound the DacMagic can't match, based on using the Arca as transport.

Does any of this ring true? or am I degrading into a sopey old so-and-so?

 

[CnoEvil]

FWIW PP, I think you are probably spot on.

I mentioned on another thread, that (imo) as the sound gets more clinical, you can lose the emotion or "soul" in the music, which for me, is probably the most important aspect....this was my main concern about the DacMagic.

The secret is finding products that retain this characteristic, yet still remain lively and fun..much like your amp.

 

[plastic penguin]

Think the ultimate question is how it'll fair with a streamer and storage?

As a individual entity the DacMagic, in many respects, is fabulous. The end game for me is to eventually eliminate the CDP and replace it with a streaming system, so my initial findings doesn't throw me from the modtech scent.

With the slightly analytical balance of the Cambridge, is there a streamer that's rugged enough - incl. the DAC - that'll retrieve the emotion? It's pure speculation and guesswork at the moment, but I think most of you know the sort of sound I like, and therefore, looking to achieve.

After 30-odd years of buying and listening to hi-fis I'm still baffled by all this modernity lark.:?

 

[CnoEvil]

It's hard to know for certain, but I would possibly expect either little difference, or even sounding a touch more analytical, as more info is retrieved (usually 100%) from the CD; IMO hi-res should sound better.

At the end of the day only you can be the judge, but for my taste, the MF V-Dac 11 is more analogue sounding. After that it would be the Rega, and with a bigger budget than that....well you know what it would be. :shifty:

 

[Craig M.]

i think you have nailed the dacmagics main problem, to my ears. if i was being cruel i'd call it souless, but slightly mechanical or artificial is probably more accurate! unless your cdp is very poor at reading discs i wouldn't expect much, if any, difference when streaming from a nas or pc. for some reason i bought one twice! i would be sorely tempted to sell it and try something else, maybe a squeezebox touch as it will make a very good streaming solution and most owners report the sound to be very good. i think the issue you have with the dm will only get worse if you plan on improving your speakers in the future, and it's possible the treble performance could start to grate too. imo, as your system becomes more revealing, the dm gets a bit exposed.

 

[Crocodile]

You could try a used Squeezebox 3/Classic for under a £100 on Ebay. The DAC in that is (IMO) a little less upfront than that in the Touch so may suit you better. Plus if you then feed it into the DacMagic you'll have a good idea of what the Touch alone will sound like.

I'm assuming you've had a play with the filters?

 

[tino]

It looks from a quick trawl of specs. that both your CD player and DacMagic have Wolfson 8740 DACs (2 off in the DacMagic) with upsampling, so performance should be broadly similar in the digital domain. The colouration and warmer sound you are hearing could just be down to the analogue section of both devices - not sure what the differences are there. I suggest (although I'm probably wrong!) that the DacMagic is the more accurate of the two so if you want a bit more colouration or "soul" in your music you might have to add that later with your amplification. When you move to a streaming solution, the situation will probably get worse for you if you prefer the warmer presentation of the CD player, since you have removed any potential artefacts that the CD player may have been introducing (since it it playing a physical medium and error correcting in real time).

 

[plastic penguin]

I've used the different filter settings to little effect. As I mentioned earlier there's little between the CD73 and the DAC, apart from the Aforementioned disparity.

Certainly on a short listen the Cambridge sounds inpressive, but over longer periods it show its real colours - the shortfall it's too mechanical, something I don't like. In comparison to the CD73T standalone, the DAC feels detached and is uninvolving.

Given I've spent so much money recently - and Christmas around the corner - it'll be after the festive period before I start experimenting again.

It's a perfect example how synergy is key to the set-up.

 

[tino]

Given I've spent so much money recently - and Christmas around the corner - it'll be after the festive period before I start experimenting again.

It's a perfect example how synergy is key to the set-up.

In agreement ... I've decided to stop faffing around with the idea of a perfect DAC, and have approached it from another angle. I got myself an ex demo Wadia 151 Digital amplifier instead ... I made one last trip to the shop before Christmas :doh: ... but the price was too good to pass.

The Wadia when paired with the Squeezebox touch it's a fantastic little combination, sounds great and no bigger than a shoebox. Downside is I have no analogue inputs ... but I'm keeping the Pulse just in case for now. Just need one of those Beresford A-B amp/speaker switch boxes now and all will be complete (Dear Santa .... :type

 

[paradiziac]

Not so far removed from my experience with the V-DAC, which is supposedly more analogue/warm than the DacMagic.

Compared to older CD players, you could maybe, on first impressions, describe the sound as (slightly) cleaner and more detailed.

After a few months, the sound from the DAC seems just slightly too thin to be totally convincing. And there's a subtle yet fatiguing harshness in higher frequencies.

So...

Inspired by PP's inital post, I just did a test. Spotify, track 1. from Adele's 19 album. Amp was the Sugden Mystro into Dali Lektor 1s.

1. iPod touch with cheapo 3m phono lead:

- First reaction, not as bad as I expected--why did I bother buying a DAC?

2. Macmini > V-Link > Audio-gd NFB-2:

- Ah yes, that's why...a clear step up in clarity, emotion comes through, voice doesn't grate.

3. Macmini > V-Link > V-DAC with V-PSU:

- Still pretty good, not a massive difference to the Audio-gd, but maybe her voice would grate if I listened a few times or at higher volumes..doesn't seem to have quite the emotional impact.

4. Macmini > V-Link > V-DAC with wallwart PS:

- Definitely finding her voice grates, doesn't seem realistic and therefore the emotion doesn't come through. Some of the high notes she hits are making me cringe!

5. iPod touch with cheapo 3m phono lead (again):

- Definitely preferable to 4. (and maybe 3.) on this track--less resolved for sure, but her voice sounds real, doesn't grate and the emotion is there.

My conclusion: I think it's just a characteristic of the cheaper DACs, which have good (revealing) chips surrounded by electronics which aren't quite up to the job (due to obvious, understandable cost-cutting measures).

Maybe the solution is a better DAC, worse speakers, or...A TONE CONTROL?!!!

 

[paradiziac]

It's a perfect example how synergy is key to the set-up.

In agreement ... I've decided to stop faffing around with the idea of a perfect DAC, and have approached it from another angle. I got myself an ex demo Wadia 151 Digital amplifier instead ..

Nice one!

No problems with synergy there as it's all in one box

 

[tino]

Nice one!

No problems with synergy there as it's all in one box

Thanks ... you'r right about the synergy ... the chain Touch + Amp just works. At first I thought it was a touch too lean, but in fact it reveals itself to be a very natural sounding digital amp that adds no colouration at all, tight bottom end ... ooh err ... and top end is not grainy or harsh at all. My MF VDAC II + Pulse is ever so slightly warmer sounding, but there's little in it.

 

[plastic penguin]

I have never really thought the Arcam was a 'warm' sounding machine. Likewise, the DacMagic doesn't so much grate... you just don't feel apart of the music, in comparison. The Arcam is immensely involving, makes you listen to the music rather than "component spotting".

To be fair, if I'd purchased the DacMagic without having a CDP I'd probably be very happy, given the price. When placed side-by-side....

Need I say more?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I'm Australian. I try not to think.

 

[plastic penguin]

I'm Australian. I try not to think.

As you keep telling us, but what has this to do with the thread?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

The title, of course.

Lighten up, PP, just got sacked again and am I depressed? Nah!

 

[plastic penguin]

The title, of course.

Lighten up, PP, just got sacked again and am I depressed? Nah!

Sorry to hear al, just my LONDON sense of humour.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Thanks, but no worries, back tomorrow I'm sure, mate. Dispute over Gratin Dauphinois - chef said thickness of potato slices all over the place, but the truth is he was embarrassed because in the pub when first customers arrived. Oh, and i did tell him where to go...

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks, but no worries, back tomorrow I'm sure, mate. Dispute over Gratin Dauphinois - chef said thickness of potato slices all over the place, but the truth is he was embarrassed because in the pub when first customers arrived. Oh, and i did tell him where to go...

See, should've asked me first...

Dish up some mix root rosti, that'll confuse him.:bounce:

 

[HDNumpty]

Dauphinoise aside I'm interested to read this post PP because I did the same - bought an older CD92 from a mate and it sounded lovely, lots of emotion...but it wasn't long before it's idiosyncrasies got to me...no on/off by remote...no 'shuffle tracks'...looked a bit cheap considering it was £900 new. Swopped it for a fantastic deal on a CA 740C (£300) which gave me a better-than-dacmagic DAC plus the CD player. Yes it wasn't as emotive as the Arcam but overall it wasn't as fussy about what it played and modern stuff like Elow sounded better overall. But the CA kit is more analytical I think.

For me it's a trade-off between analysis and usability...I now use the DAC for Satellite radio, ALAC tracks from iPod and iPhone and I can plug my PC in via an Onkyo ND-S1 and listen to more ALAC or Spotify Premium. You can't do all that with a standalone Arcam, no matter how emotive it sounds.

Maybe you should consider spending more on a DAC? If you managed to get to the Manchester show you may've heard FLAC tracks streamed via Bryston kit, which just sounded astounding. How much do want to spend? £200? £600? a kidney?

Happy experimenting!

 

[Anonymous]

Finding the discusion about soul and emotion really interesting.

Does anyone have any thoughts regarding this and other DACs? I'm currently looking at some of the Beresford models so any insights into these would be very welcome, especially as they are in the same ball park as the Dacmagic.

Best wishes to all.

 

[CnoEvil]

Oh, and i did tell him where to go...

You never did....doesn't sound like you!

 

[6th.replicant]

Forgive me if I've missed an earlier thread, but have you sampled the 73T with an rDAC?

 

[plastic penguin]

Forgive me if I've missed an earlier thread, but have you sampled the 73T with an rDAC?

No. The only reason I purchased was more out of frustration: Having heard a couple of well known all-in-ones, I was left disappointed.

Having seen this DacMagic going cheap (another budgie joke there) I thought: "What the hell! A person has to start somewhere..."

 

[chebby]

...it has a certain living or organic sound...

What is an organic sound? (Is it approved by the Soil Association?)