What dac to upgrade headphone setup?

[Superaintit]

Hello fellow music lovers,

I'm planning to upgrade my
headphone setup and want to buy a DAC to upgrade the sound of my
Sennheiser HD650s. I suppose a dacmagic would be the obvious choice.
However in Holland the dacmagic is 400 euros (=350 pounds). I could get
a second hand benchmark for not much more, 650 euros. I like a neutral
to slightly warm sound and listen mostly to beat driven music like Rock and roll, dance, Hiphop, R&B, pop and to easy listening music like Katie Melua, Van Morrisson, Cat Stevens.

My question for you are:

1)Would the Benchmark give an obvious improvement over the dacmagic?

2)Does the Benchmark match well with the Sennheisers?

Thanks in advance,
Marc

 

[Ajani]

1) I'd expect the Benchmark to be substantially better than the Dac Magic (which is how it should be considering the price difference)

2) Benchmark and Sennheiser HD650 is a very common combo and is actually sold on the Benchmark website... You may find that you prefer just plugging the Senns directly into the Benchmark, rather than using the X-Can headphone amp...

 

[Anonymous]

1) Yes, your 650s will reveal a clear difference. How much is a Lavry DA10 in Holland? We pay way over the odds here but apparently it has a slightly warmer, more musical sound the very analytical Benchmark (which I own).

2) Yes, but again I think the Lavry is worth looking into.

 

[Superaintit]

Hi Ajani,

Thanks for your answers. I will be auditioning the Benchmark next Thursday or Saterday. From what Ive understood from reviews (edit: stereophile) this Dac has a tendency towards the analytical sound, is that right?

" 2) Benchmark and Sennheiser HD650 is a very common combo and is
actually sold on the Benchmark website... You may find that you prefer
just plugging the Senns directly into the Benchmark, rather than using
the X-Can headphone amp... "

Bullseye! That's exactly the reason I was tempted by the Benchmark in the first place.

 

[Superaintit]

Hi Octopo,

Thanks for your reply. As I said in my previous post I intend to listen to the Benchmark before I try something else. You say the Benchmark is very analytical. Did you experience this with the Senns or with other headphones? In my experience the Sennheisers have a slightly laid back sound that might work very well with a more upfront dac/headamp.

I'm not sure how much the Lavry dac is, but will check it out.

 

[Anonymous]

You'll find the Lavry here:ÿinfo@da-x.de. Let me know what you can get it for...

 

[Superaintit]

According to the Lavry website there isn't any Lavry dealer in Holland, nearest is in Germany. Price: 995 euros = 870 pounds.This is just a little bit too dear for me. I've promised myself I won't spend any more than 650 euro's.

For yor interest, I just noticed it's possible to buy directly from Lavry. Seems to be much cheaper. Price:975 dollars (=755 euros= 660 pounds).

When I've listened to the benchmark/senn combo, I'll post my findings on this forum.

 

[Anonymous]

Yep, we have to order from Germany too. You would be getting a great deal as far as I'm concerned though...

 

[Superaintit]

" Yep, we have to order from Germany too. You would be getting a great deal as far as I'm concerned though..."

Do you mean for for the Benchmark dac or the lavry?

 

[Anonymous]

Lavry.

 

[Anonymous]

By my reckoning you should be having about £150 over on me.

 

[Superaintit]

Octopo:By my reckoning you should be having about £150 over on me.

Lavry has a dealer in the UK that sells the Lavry for 763 pounds= 873 euros.

http://www.soundtools.co.uk/Products/Interfaces/Signal.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Superaintit:
Octopo:By my reckoning you should be having about £150 over on me.

Lavry has a dealer in the UK that sells the Lavry for 763 pounds= 873 euros.

http://www.soundtools.co.uk/Products/Interfaces/Signal.htm

No, Soundtools buy them in and try to sell them as if they're doing us a favour. Looking at it though the price has dropped since I last checked! What fortunate monkeys we are! Thanks.

 

[Ajani]

Superaintit:
Hi Ajani,

Thanks for your answers. I will be auditioning the Benchmark next Thursday or Saterday. From what Ive understood from reviews (edit: stereophile) this Dac has a tendency towards the analytical sound, is that right?

" 2) Benchmark and Sennheiser HD650 is a very common combo and is
actually sold on the Benchmark website... You may find that you prefer
just plugging the Senns directly into the Benchmark, rather than using
the X-Can headphone amp... "

Bullseye! That's exactly the reason I was tempted by the Benchmark in the first place.

Not for me... I use the Benchmark with AKG K701s, both of which should be very analytical based on some individual reviews... Yet the combo sounds detailed and neutral but definitely not analytical....

 

[Anonymous]

Ajani:but definitely not analytical....ÿ

Exsqueeze me?

To follow up Ajani, your set up, like mine at the moment is just about as analytical as it gets.ÿ

 

[Superaintit]

Well, I've just returned from a listening session at my dealer. At first I listened to the Benchmark, Sennheiser hd650 combo, fed by a musical fidelity player and a coaxial cable. First impression was a shock. Not at all what I was expecting to hear. As I'm used to listen to hard-disk based (apple-lossless) music, I expected a big upgrade in sound. The sound I heard was a step up in that it was clearer than listening through a mac- mini, but not 650 euro better. Definitately not.

I actually thought the Sennheisers were to blame, so I asked to listen to the Grado GS1000. The dealer suggested I try the SR315i's first, as they are in the same price class as the Sennheisers. Another shock. Very bright sound. In my experience the Benchmark and Grado SR315i don't match at all.

After a quarter of an hour with the 315's I tried the GS1000. Much, much better. Very natural and detailed- actually, in my experience, they are very much like the hd650s. They have better detail than the Sennheisers, but to me the Sennheiser achieve 90 % of the GS1000's sound for a third of the price. (I actually feel pretty good knowing that.)

Finally I tried the sennheiser 650 with the Benchmark fed by a Nagra cd-player. IME the end result was better than with the Musical fidelity. The sound was quicker and slightly more detailed. This all added to the feeling of being there with the musician. I would value the difference the nagra made was about 10% better than the musical fidelity as a disc spinner.

Overall, in my experience, the headphones made 80% of the total experience, the dac 10-15% and the cd-spinner 5-10%. I'm very much surprised by this. To be honest I'm shocked. So much so, I want to compare what I heard with a budget dac and the x-cans and will probably settle for something much cheaper than the Benchmark. The beresford now seems a very attractive proposition.

Octopo and Ajani, I hope I don't disappoint you with this. I wasn't expecting this at all. Thank you for your kind advice.

 

[Anonymous]

No worries (though my heart is well and truly shattered).

A few points though.

If you like the sound of Sennheisers you will not so much get on with Grados (with the possible exception of the GS1000). Sennheisers have a very smooth, hifi sound whilst Grados are coloured and exciting - or bright to some people. This isn't the partnering it's the tone of the brand.

The GS1000 has got a more laid back character (as Grados go) but needs to have a good amp and is best at lower volumes. The 650 on the other hand doesn't need to be driven so hard and is better at higher volumes.

"The sound was quicker and more detailed"

This is what differs with DACs. There is a huge difference in clarity, definition and soundstaging between my Benchmark and my Beresford. I'll be the first to hold my hand up and say I'm keen to exchange my Benchmark, but it would only be for the £900 Lavry.

 

[Superaintit]

Octopo:
No worries (though my heart is well and truly shattered).

A few points though.

If you like the sound of Sennheisers you will not so much get on with Grados (with the possible exception of the GS1000). Sennheisers have a very smooth, hifi sound whilst Grados are coloured and exciting - or bright to some people. This isn't the partnering it's the tone of the brand.

Oh, ok. I didn't know that. I still find it exceptional then, that within one brand line the GS1000's sound so different than the 315i's. If I had tested blind I would probably have thought the GS1000 were akin to the HD650's and the 315i a different brand.

Octopo:

The GS1000 has got a more laid back character (as Grados go) but
needs to have a good amp and is best at lower volumes. The 650 on the
other hand doesn't need to be driven so hard and is better at higher
volumes.

That's actually exactly what my dealer told me. IME, it wasn't that noticable. To me the GS1000's were consistantly better than the Sennheisers (at all volumes). The thing is they weren't THAT much better. Only 10% IME.

Octopo:

"The sound was quicker and more detailed"

This is
what differs with DACs. There is a huge difference in clarity,
definition and soundstaging between my Benchmark and my Beresford. I'll
be the first to hold my hand up and say I'm keen to exchange my
Benchmark, but it would only be for the £900 Lavry.

I respect what you're saying. To me there is a difference. But I honestly and truly think I would rather invest the same kind of money in a better headphone or speaker than a source. Shame I can't hear the Beresford dac. Therefore, I will compare with the Dacmagic and report back what I experienced.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I didn't notice you mentioned a speaker setup.

The difference through a set of cans through the Benchmark is not as noticeable. I'm getting better results through my Beresford and Little Dot MK3 into AKG K701 than I did from either the AKGs or Grado SR325s from the Benchmarks headphone out.

No matter what anyone says about the quality of headphones ÿ(bar electrostatic phones which I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing) they will not beat the soundstaging and outright full frontal power of a good conventional speaker set up. It is here my Benchmark shines, head and shoulders over any DAC below £600.

 

[Superaintit]

Today I listened to the dacmagic and the Cyrus Dac-x. The comparison may seem unfair as they are in a different price class. Fact of the matter is the dealer had no other options!

The first set-up was as follows: Cyrus CD 8 SE ->IXOS Toslink->Dacmagic-> MF X-can v3-> Sennheiser HD 650. The Dacmagic is IME a musical DAC with a surprising amount of detail on display. It sounds energetic and I could easily listen to it for a long time.

The second set-up consisted of the Cyrus CD 8 SE ->IXOS Toslink->Cyrus DAC-X-> MF X-can v3-> Sennheiser HD 650. I had to try the Cyrus, I was too curious not to. I've read lots about the Cyrus sound both on the forum and in the mag and all I can say is: Cyrus DAC-X is a class act! The sound is both composed and urgent at once. Playing AC/DC Back in Black showed this beautifully. It rocks, but never strays away from being there/keeping composure. The musical instruments are very easy to follow. There seems to be 'space' between the notes being played. Voices and musical instruments are very natural. This player delivers so much detail, I sometimes felt it was too much. I really had to get used to that.

Conclusion: You Brits are spoilt for choice and very, very lucky. At 200 pounds the Dacmagic is a very good buy. At that price I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. As I live in the Netherlands I have to pay 2,5 times (EDIT: 2 times since the recent UK price increase) this amount. That may still be good value for money, but I have to admit I feel a little bit uneasy paying this much extra. I feel a comparison with an equally expensive dac is needed. (maybe Stello)

One day, I would very much like to own the DAC-X from Cyrus. It has everything I ask for in a DAC and more. The only negative about it is -for me at least- the price. It's a little steep new. If it crosses my path second hand at a reasonable price, I'll give it a serious consideration. To be continued....