What additional speakers should I get to go full 9.1?

[Oldboy]

Hi all,

I've got a decision to make and I'm torn so I need your help and wisdom please...

Currently my system is a Dali Zensor 5 5.1 system with the addition of front height/presence speakers so I've got Dali 5's as the front pair with a Vokal centre and Zensor 1 rears with another pair of Zensor 1's at the front high above my Zensor 5's which are my front height/presence speakers and all are powered by my Yamaha RX-A2020 receiver.

I'm contemplating going full 9.1 now so adding another set of speakers to the sides of my seating position and moving the rears accordingly which means moving them further along the rear wall ideally. My question is what speakers should I add for those additional surrounds?

My room is only 4.5m x 4.0m and it already resembles a speaker/AV showroom so ideally I think adding smaller speakers would be ideal so they are less noticable, smaller and easier to install but I'm worried the sound would be compromised by going down this route, would that be true? I know they would only be dealing with certain frequencies and at certain times but would I notice a difference in the soundfield or does it just mean carefully selecting suitable speakers?

Or would the ideal solution be to just stick with the Zensor 1's and not worry about the impact they make in the room? I don't like that idea but if it's the best way forward then so be it but something alot smaller would be far better for my room so if you have any suggestions I would really welcome your input.

Decisions decisions... :?

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Two intertwined threads :bounce:

Can u use yr front heights as backs.to experiment or buy a cheap pair (charity shop etc) to try. My room is smaller and as I said, I cant place in ideal positions. Not many people here seem to use 7.1/9.1 but someone else may pipe in. Cheers ob.

 

[Oldboy]

Nope can't use the front heights to experiment as not got enough speaker cable and it would be a nightmare to take that lot apart as I've got all the wires in trunking which is a real pain to take apart and put back together so that it's flush.

I might have a look in the charity shops but what I really want to test is how effective a speaker the size of the Boston Acoustics Soundware or Q Acoustics Q7000 would be as they would be far smaller and discrete than full on Dali Zensor 1 bookshelf speakers, hopefully someone has tried something similar. I'm in no hurry anyway but I like the idea of going full 9.1 just to see how it sounds after all my receiver is more than capable...

 

[macdiddy]

Hi oldboy :wave:

to answer your question I think as you currently use a pair of Zensor 1's as rears, then the best sound will come from adding another pair of these to use as side surrounds to get your 9.1, this will ensure that you get the best surround effects etc as you will have the same drivers in use around the room.

as someone who is luckly enough to run a full 9.2 system in a room of approx 5.0mx4.0m, using an Onkyo TX-NR818 + additional power amp and a full brace of Monitor Audio Bronze speakers plus two subs, in my opinion it is as good as it can be until my next upgrade comes around.

hope this helps your decision.

:bounce:

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Sorry macdiddy. Forum rule 7.2.89.4.4 para 4578.8 states that claims of 9.2 systems must be supported.with photographs or else your equipment will be confiscated by Sgt Oldboy & Sgt RobinK. The sound police will be knocking at yr door.

 

[Oldboy]

Hi oldboy :wave:

to answer your question I think as you currently use a pair of Zensor 1's as rears, then the best sound will come from adding another pair of these to use as side surrounds to get your 9.1, this will ensure that you get the best surround effects etc as you will have the same drivers in use around the room.

as someone who is luckly enough to run a full 9.2 system in a room of approx 5.0mx4.0m, using an Onkyo TX-NR818 + additional power amp and a full brace of Monitor Audio Bronze speakers plus two subs, in my opinion it is as good as it can be until my next upgrade comes around.

hope this helps your decision.

:bounce:

That's really useful info macdiddy so many thanks for your valuable input I really appreciate it

What's really good is that you have comparable kit to mine and a similar sized room so it's given me much to think about, I've just ordered a detector so I can see if I can place the speakers where they need to go as one side has a light switch on it so if the wires are running up the wall it's a no go so fingers crossed ray:

A second sub would be something I'm looking at adding next year once the 9.1 is up and running but I'm worried that would be extreme overkill so how do you find the second sub incorporates into your setup? I was always of the opinion that another set of Dali Zensor 1's would provide the best solution but I really wanted to see if I could get away with something smaller if possible just to stop the room being filled with speakers, I was thinking that because they aren't going to be used that much and only for surround duties that I could get away with something smaller and more discrete without sacrificing much in sound quality or ruining the soundfield but maybe not.

 

[Oldboy]

Sorry macdiddy. Forum rule 7.2.89.4.4 para 4578.8 states that claims of 9.2 systems must be supported.with photographs or else your equipment will be confiscated by Sgt Oldboy & Sgt RobinK. The sound police will be knocking at yr door.

:rofl:

Definately Robin...I hear the whir of the sound police sirens coming his way as I look forward to some speakers to experiment with. I only need the two so the rest are yours, sorry macdiddy but rules are rules :read:

 

[macdiddy]

Sorry about that, can we put it down to me being new to this posting thing, anyway hang on, you don't know where I live. :shifty:

If someone can tell me the easilest or least painfull way to add photos to my posts then please let me know.

 

[Oldboy]

Sorry about that, can we put it down to me being new to this posting thing, anyway hang on, you don't know where I live. :shifty:

If someone can tell me the easilest or least painfull way to add photos to my posts then please let me know.

We are only messing with you due to setup envy and no rule exists although it should

Anyone can claim they have 9.2 but unless we see proof we tend to not entirely beleive them, I posted pics when I put my front heights in and of the rest of my system so can tell you the easiest way is to use a photo hosting site such as Photobucket or Picassa, upload your photos to the site then when you want to post pictures on here click on the little tree symbol when you click on reply or quote and paste in the web address of the photo.

In photobucket you just right click on the photo you want to upload and select copy location (I think) then paste it after you click on the tree symbol, it's pretty easy and if I can do it then it must be simple.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I find that pics.are iseful to compare others equipment.since the room has such a huge effect on sound.. When we hear that surround or height speakers are good or (bad) then sometimes a photo can explain the why. My layout for instance benefits little from rears because of the position of the sofa against the wall and the other limitations. Similarly, looking at ob's layout & photos I can see why they might be effective for him (you) but not neccessarily for me.

PS I know where you live !!!

Just kiddin

PPS Photobucket works for me

 

[macdiddy]

thanks guys for the info, next time I have a spare weekend I will try and post some pictures for you in the My System forum section, will need time to tidy up my room as it is a bit of a mess at the moment.

and yes you guys, I knew you were just messing with me.

happy viewing and listening to you both.

:rockout:

 

[macdiddy]

sorry, I meant the Your System forum section

:doh:

 

[BenLaw]

Nope can't use the front heights to experiment as not got enough speaker cable and it would be a nightmare to take that lot apart as I've got all the wires in trunking which is a real pain to take apart and put back together so that it's flush.

I might have a look in the charity shops but what I really want to test is how effective a speaker the size of the Boston Acoustics Soundware or Q Acoustics Q7000 would be as they would be far smaller and discrete than full on Dali Zensor 1 bookshelf speakers, hopefully someone has tried something similar. I'm in no hurry anyway but I like the idea of going full 9.1 just to see how it sounds after all my receiver is more than capable...

Wouldn't Dali fazon fit the bill?

I use those q acoustics as rears but I'm not sure they'd blend that well with Dalis.

 

[Oldboy]

Wouldn't Dali fazon fit the bill?

I use those q acoustics as rears but I'm not sure they'd blend that well with Dalis.

Hmmm...not something I had thought about BenLaw but it does make sense to keep to the same family of speakers but no doubt a pair of Fazons would be a bit pricey, will price them up and see what the cost is. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[BenLaw]

You're right, they're more than I'd remembered. It's £175 for the q7000. You could get a pair of Dali fazon micros for around £300. I don't know anything about them but I'm guessing they're small!

 

[theflyingwasp]

This dosent help with the original question but how does a 5.1 blu ray sound when put through 9.1 or if space or money allows 11.1 .a lot of blu rays are 7.1 now but what information do the extra speakers receive?

 

[bigboss]

Personally, I think you're wasting your money. Your room isn't big enough to appreciate the extra speakers. Besides, as already pointed, none of the blu rays are coded at 9.1, so basically you'll get pseudo 9.1, which means unnecessary processing.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Sorry macdiddy. Forum rule 7.2.89.4.4 para 4578.8 states that claims of 9.2 systems must be supported.with photographs or else your equipment will be confiscated by Sgt Oldboy & Sgt RobinK. The sound police will be knocking at yr door.

Oh dear. In that case I really am in trouble, especially as, following my friend moving out of the front bedroom at the weekend after eight years, I've just expanded to four rooms with home cinemas!

 

[htuser]

hi sorry to intrude but my issue is similar. my system consists of yamaha avantage 3010 fed to kef R500 floor standers, r200c center, R100 rears. this is a 9.2 channel system. I had some old klipsh quintet speakers. so i used two klipsh quinted as surround back and two as front presence speakers. Adding front presence improved soundstage. But i thought these small klipsch may not produce the full sound stage so i started to search for some additional book shelf speakes to match the kef R series. I ruled out additional from r series from cost point of view also due to size as i have to wall mount them. I also ruled out the kef q100as these are also big for wall mounting. small speakers like kef eggs and say B&W m series have only 4inch drivers. I came to know that Monitor Audio Apex A10 employ 5.25 inch driver and have front ported are small enough for wall mounting.

my room size is around 15 feet x 18 feet.

now my question is whether the sound of Apex A10 will match to that of kef r series. will this setup ie KEF R500, R200c, R100, Apex A10 surround Back, and Apex A10, ( kef 400d sub0 front presence will make a good 9.1 channel system?

 

[RobinKidderminster]

The green eyed monster has yr decent sized room in its sights. Watch out for the audio police as above. Generally (definitely IMO only) I think rears can be much 'poorer' than others bearing in mind that there is so little 7.1 or better media available. On the other hand, if my rears were visible then I would try to match the other units. No help but felt the need to excercise my digits.

 

[Oldboy]

Hmmm so a mixed reception to the 9.1 idea then...

The reason I am thinking about it is if I go 9.1 I can get the most from the many 7.1 blu rays I have, the 7.1 channel encode would remain intact with the amp doing the processing to add the front height speakers into the mix as it does now with 5.1. I like the front heights and they add to the soundfield really well, I've done comparisons of whole films with them on and off and I much prefer them on and there is no loss in sound quality as they are just for ambient and surround effects and aren't employed as aggressively as the rest of my speakers.

The Dali Fazon 3 speakers come out at...£265 EACH...so £530 for the pair then about £120 for the speaker cable including pre fitted plugs ouch! That's far more than I intend to spend when I can get another set of Dali Zensor 1's for £200, I'm still pondering it but smaller speakers would be ideal. I know my room probably isn't big enough but I got speaker envy from my mates 7.1 system in a room smaller than mine, it sounded lovley at the rear with a native 7.1 DTS HD Master Audio track and that got me thinking. It might not even be possible once I trace where my lighting goes as 1 light switch is on the wall exactly where one of the surrounds would need to go.

I'm still of a mind to do it and if I don't like it just sell the speakers on for a small loss is my worst case senario but it is alot of hassle with routing cables and running trunking etc so I may well put them up and test it out and if I like it run all the trunking at a later date :?

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I'm going to gently disagree with some folk on here, but hey. My kitchen isn't much bigger than your room, it is 17' by 14' and 7'6" high, and I have an 8.1 system in it (my signature needs to be updated). I have tried it without the single centre back speaker and without the front high (presence) speakers, and there is certainly a difference between 8.1 and 5.1. So, Oldboy, go for the 9.1! I would also say that it's good for all the speakers at the front be similar, if not identical. But that's not so important for the centre back speakers.