Wharfedale

[nn_in]

Is the the 12 series Wharfedale positioned a step above the 11series ? The prices seem to be similar .

 

[Gray]

Is the the 12 series Wharfedale positioned a step above the 11series ? The prices seem to be similar .

Just the latest iteration of the long-running Diamond series.
A complete redesign though apparently.

 

[nn_in]

Just the latest iteration of the long-running Diamond series.
A complete redesign though apparently.

I thought the long running 200 series was replaced by the 11 . Was surprise that another 12 series added.

 

[Al ears]

I thought the long running 200 series was replaced by the 11 . Was surprise that another 12 series added.

I believe the 200 series were a completely separate line.
The Diamonds have always been 10, 11, 12 etc and this is there 'compact' line.
It's complicated when you use Diamond in multiple lines but it differentiates from the Jade series.

 

[nn_in]

I believe the 200 series were a completely separate line.
The Diamonds have always been 10, 11, 12 etc and this is there 'compact' line.
It's complicated when you use Diamond in multiple lines but it differentiates from the Jade series.

200 series is also Diamond series as stated in Wharfedale website.
11 series were to replace the 200 series as mentioned in a youtube video by Wharfedale

 

[Gray]

Nice to see the company (name at least) still going strong.
I was using their Glendale's in the pre-Diamond days.

 

[matthewpiano]

The Diamond 12 series directly replace the Diamond 11 series.

 

[nn_in]

The Diamond 12 series directly replace the Diamond 11 series.

Thank You .
Now i get it (So its 225 > 11.2 > 12.2 progression as per series?)
Looks like 12 series is back ported . Maybe its easier to manufacture and most Fink designs are backported ?
Iam using 11.2 . Guess there may not be comparison wrt 11.2 even though WHF did a 12.1 review. Hope some users can share their views.

 

[matthewpiano]

Thank You .
Now i get it (So its 225 > 11.2 > 12.2 progression as per series?)
Looks like 12 series is back ported . Maybe its easier to manufacture and most Fink designs are backported ?
Iam using 11.2 . Guess there may not be comparison wrt 11.2 even though WHF did a 12.1 review. Hope some users can share their views.

Yes, that's the progression. The big change, other than the porting arrangement, are the materials used for the bass/mid driver, and the internal bracing arrangement. They should be well worth listening to.

The bigger stand mount model always seems to get less in the way of reviews than the smaller one so it may be a matter of waiting for user reviews to appear, as you say. None of that is as good as hearing them for yourself though, so if you're interested I'd suggest trying to audition them.

 

[Al ears]

The 225 was always a completely different range.
Think 9,10, 11 ,12 ......
From 10 onwards they have been rear ported.

 

[expat_mike]

Nice to see the company (name at least) still going strong.
I was using their Glendale's in the pre-Diamond days.

pre-Diamond is probably before many forum posters were born.
I still use my wharfedale 1s as computer monitors, but after nearly 40 years I do prefer other speakers.
Even so, a simple chord mojo plus early wharfedale speakers, will still kick the ass of most other computer monitors.

 

[Al ears]

I thought the long running 200 series was replaced by the 11 . Was surprise that another 12 series added.

The 200 was not replaced by the 11 they ran concurrently and are different lines.

 

[Al ears]

pre-Diamond is probably before many forum posters were born.
I still use my wharfedale 1s as computer monitors, but after nearly 40 years I do prefer other speakers.
Even so, a simple chord mojo plus early wharfedale speakers, will still kick the ass of most other computer monitors.

I am old enough to have used Wharfdale speakers before the term Diamond was ever used....
However,it is clear,that it's overuse is causing confusion and I can see why.
The 220s replacements 121s., so the 200 series replaced the 100 series. The compact series that includes the 12 is a completely separate line but they produce so many it obviously gets confusing

 

[DrazenBab]

The 225 was always a completely different range.
Think 9,10, 11 ,12 ......
From 10 onwards they have been rear ported.

The 11 and 200 series are bottom ported. That sets them apart from all other Diamond series, pre and post.

 

[DrazenBab]

Thank You .
Now i get it (So its 225 > 11.2 > 12.2 progression as per series?)
Looks like 12 series is back ported . Maybe its easier to manufacture and most Fink designs are backported ?
Iam using 11.2 . Guess there may not be comparison wrt 11.2 even though WHF did a 12.1 review. Hope some users can share their views.

Fink Audio designed the mid/woofer drivers only. The rest of the design and build is Wharfedale's. They decided to go back to rectangular box design, with additional internal bracing to minimize speaker resonance, something the curved, reducing speaker box design does well and addresses on its own. The bottom firing port has now been replaced on 12 series back to a traditional back firing. The measurements done on the 11 and 200 series proved the bottom firing port allowed for further bass extension, now 'lost' in the 12 series.
The tweeters on 12 series are now also simplified, gone is the WFR design with its own closed type vented enclosure which separates the tweeter from the rest of the speaker cavity.

The 12 series is also more affordable than 11. I see it as a 'budget D11', while I see D11 as a 'budget Reva'.
The reduction of manufacturing steps and materials used in its production reflects that. Yes, it admittedly punches above its weight, but so does D11, and many other Diamond series before.
To me the D12 looks and feels as a an upgrade to the outgoing D200 series which was already fantastic performer in its price range.

 

[nn_in]

Fink Audio designed the mid/woofer drivers only. The rest of the design and build is Wharfedale's. They decided to go back to rectangular box design, with additional internal bracing to minimize speaker resonance, something the curved, reducing speaker box design does well and addresses on its own. The bottom firing port has now been replaced on 12 series back to a traditional back firing. The measurements done on the 11 and 200 series proved the bottom firing port allowed for further bass extension, now 'lost' in the 12 series.
The tweeters on 12 series are now also simplified, gone is the WFR design with its own closed type vented enclosure which separates the tweeter from the rest of the speaker cavity.

The 12 series is also more affordable than 11. I see it as a 'budget D11', while I see D11 as a 'budget Reva'.
The reduction of manufacturing steps and materials used in its production reflects that. Yes, it admittedly punches above its weight, but so does D11, and many other Diamond series before.
To me the D12 looks and feels as a an upgrade to the outgoing D200 series which was already fantastic performer in its price range.

Thank you for the response.Useful overview.
The 11.2 i have on tweeter does not have the print "WFR vented system" but just the W logo. The pics shown on the Wharfedale website has both . Does this mean i got a ver2 -11.2 - tweeter which may or may not have the WFR vented system. I asked Whafedale who directed me back to local dealer who mentioned that some of these aspects change . I think a company like IAG-Wharfedale can do better to update info on website or social media channels

 

[DrazenBab]

Thank you for the response.Useful overview.
The 11.2 i have on tweeter does not have the print "WFR vented system" but just the W logo. The pics shown on the Wharfedale website has both . Does this mean i got a ver2 -11.2 - tweeter which may or may not have the WFR vented system. I asked Whafedale who directed me back to local dealer who mentioned that some of these aspects change . I think a company like IAG-Wharfedale can do better to update info on website or social media channels

Really sorry to hear that. My 11.2 has both the W logo and the WFR inscription on the tweeter beauty ring.

I think yours is like this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur0Yp26gUys&t


If you look at the comments I asked few days ago how come the tweeter on the 11.2 doesn't feature a vented isolation cap on the back of the tweeter's magnet, they also didn't know. It appears as you stated the Wharfedale changed the specs along the way

I am not surprised though, Jamie O'callahan, Wharfedale's marketing manager, stated on one of the YouTube channels the D11 series was a loss leader for them, over-engineered and under-priced, this was basically their attempt to get the award wining Diamond series back in the spotlight, which they lost in Series 9 with well documented and reported blown rubber rings on the bass drivers, something the series 10 that followed never managed to 'rectify' in regaining Diamond's once well known and regarded popularity.

11 series went way over the top for a budget speaker line, it's basically a Reva 'on a budget'.

Still, even with a 'downgraded' tweeter design, it's a heck of a speaker you own.

EDIT: The mistery continues...

Here is a photo of mine, now 2 years old (let's call it V1) - first attached photo.
The "new" current (V2) is attached as a second photo that I found on the web, which shows the full system.

If you pay attention you will notice mine comes with the WFR inscription but also a much larger plastic and metal beauty rings around the tweeter. Compare it with the tweeter on the second photo which shows "D11.2 V2" and you will notice how much is the "V2"tweeter ring smaller and it lacks the WFR text as you pointed out.

It also appears on the V2 the woofer was 'lifted' a little higher on the front baffle as it's at the same distance from the tweeter silver circle as on the V1, which features larger tweeter ring.

One more thing I noticed but could be wrong, the woofer foam surround has now been replaced with a rubber one? What does it look like on yours?

This is what I found on the Wharfedale website describing Diamond 11:

"Then there is the progressive suspension which features a lightweight RUBBER surround for an extended midrange response, in conjunction with a super-long-throw voice coil motor system... "

It used to say:

Then there is the progressive suspension which features a lightweight FOAM surround for an extended midrange response, in conjunction with a super-long-throw voice coil motor system..."

Also, gone is now the WFR description they used to have for a tweeter along with the picture that shown exploded tweeter blueprint with the isolation cap at the end.


Keep us posted please, cheers.

 

[nn_in]

Really sorry to hear that. My 11.2 has both the W logo and the WFR inscription on the tweeter beauty ring.

I think yours is like this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur0Yp26gUys&t


If you look at the comments I asked few days ago how come the tweeter on the 11.2 doesn't feature a vented isolation cap on the back of the tweeter's magnet, they also didn't know. It appears as you stated the Wharfedale changed the specs along the way

I am not surprised though, Jamie O'callahan, Wharfedale's marketing manager, stated on one of the YouTube channels the D11 series was a loss leader for them, over-engineered and under-priced, this was basically their attempt to get the award wining Diamond series back in the spotlight, which they lost in Series 9 with well documented and reported blown rubber rings on the bass drivers, something the series 10 that followed never managed to 'rectify' in regaining Diamond's once well known and regarded popularity.

11 series went way over the top for a budget speaker line, it's basically a Reva 'on a budget'.

Still, even with a 'downgraded' tweeter design, it's a heck of a speaker you own.

EDIT: The mistery continues...

Here is a photo of mine, now 2 years old (let's call it V1) - first attached photo.
The "new" current (V2) is attached as a second photo that I found on the web, which shows the full system.

If you pay attention you will notice mine comes with the WFR inscription but also a much larger plastic and metal beauty rings around the tweeter. Compare it with the tweeter on the second photo which shows "D11.2 V2" and you will notice how much is the "V2"tweeter ring smaller and it lacks the WFR text as you pointed out.

It also appears on the V2 the woofer was 'lifted' a little higher on the front baffle as it's at the same distance from the tweeter silver circle as on the V1, which features larger tweeter ring.

One more thing I noticed but could be wrong, the woofer foam surround has now been replaced with a rubber one? What does it look like on yours?

This is what I found on the Wharfedale website describing Diamond 11:

"Then there is the progressive suspension which features a lightweight RUBBER surround for an extended midrange response, in conjunction with a super-long-throw voice coil motor system... "

It used to say:

Then there is the progressive suspension which features a lightweight FOAM surround for an extended midrange response, in conjunction with a super-long-throw voice coil motor system..."

Also, gone is now the WFR description they used to have for a tweeter along with the picture that shown exploded tweeter blueprint with the isolation cap at the end.


Keep us posted please, cheers.

Note the ver2 tweeter
Mid/woofer Looks and feels like rubber
The build quality and curved cabinet is done well

 

[DrazenBab]

Note the ver2 tweeter
Mid/woofer Looks and feels like rubber
The build quality and curved cabinet is done well

Indeed. The mid/woofer driver now sits little higher as the tweeter ring is now also smaller. They had to do that to maintain tight distance and minimize sound separation between the tweeter and the mid/woofer.

The foam has been replaced by the rubber, as we both noticed. Which one is better is debatable, the special foam used on drivers there days has performance characteristics that rubber surround still doesn't match however the stigma of low quality foam from the 70es and 80es which used to disintegrate and crumble over time still has impact on the wider population. That could have been something that most likely affected the sales of the Diamond 11 Version 1 and ultimately made the manufacturer change it to rubber along the way.

 

[nopiano]

Something I never appreciated until I read an informative post about it is a mass manufacturer‘s production methods. Ranges like these might be made in one run, of say 20,000 pieces in PRC. Within that total number an estimate on which sizes will be most popular is made, and built accordingly
.
Once that run is nearing sell out, say after three years, they either need to make the same again, or more typically release a v2 or a new range. That’s what may be the case here, with economies as required to return to profitability.

 

[DrazenBab]

Something I never appreciated until I read an informative post about it is a mass manufacturer‘s production methods. Ranges like these might be made in one run, of say 20,000 pieces in PRC. Within that total number an estimate on which sizes will be most popular is made, and built accordingly
.
Once that run is nearing sell out, say after three years, they either need to make the same again, or more typically release a v2 or a new range. That’s what may be the case here, with economies as required to return to profitability.

That's correct. As an example, if you happen to purchase products from places like AliExpress etc, you would have come across the situation where the product you receive differs sometimes greatly, from the product advertised by the seller. Manufacturers often update design, production methods and materials without always letting the end retailer know of the changes.

While superb in their own right and punch way above their weight, Diamond line is still just an entry level product in Wharfedale portfolio, the one they count on selling in larger numbers than other speaker lines of theirs.

Unfortunatelly, while they sold truckloads of D11s over the last 3 years, they reportedly and admittedly made little or no profit on them, so somethimg had to change after their account team would have intervened.

Also, they're toutung the latest D12 to be the "best Diaminds ever". To be able to do so and go against the fantastic predecessor which is 11s, something had to give They simply made the 11s slightly less attractive an option now.

Some of this above is my own observation and ramblings, but having been into this hobby for many years and having owned multitude of Wharfedale speakers, I believe I am not far from the reality here.

Cheers.

 

[gasolin]

I thought the long running 200 series was replaced by the 11 . Was surprise that another 12 series added.

Thank You .
Now i get it (So its 225 > 11.2 > 12.2 progression as per series?)
Looks like 12 series is back ported . Maybe its easier to manufacture and most Fink designs are backported ?
Iam using 11.2 . Guess there may not be comparison wrt 11.2 even though WHF did a 12.1 review. Hope some users can share their views.

D300 replaced the D200, D225 has nothing do do with the diamond 11 and 12 series

 

[nn_in]

That's correct. As an example, if you happen to purchase products from places like AliExpress etc, you would have come across the situation where the product you receive differs sometimes greatly, from the product advertised by the seller. Manufacturers often update design, production methods and materials without always letting the end retailer know of the changes.

While superb in their own right and punch way above their weight, Diamond line is still just an entry level product in Wharfedale portfolio, the one they count on selling in larger numbers than other speaker lines of theirs.

Unfortunatelly, while they sold truckloads of D11s over the last 3 years, they reportedly and admittedly made little or no profit on them, so somethimg had to change after their account team would have intervened.

Also, they're toutung the latest D12 to be the "best Diaminds ever". To be able to do so and go against the fantastic predecessor which is 11s, something had to give They simply made the 11s slightly less attractive an option now.

Some of this above is my own observation and ramblings, but having been into this hobby for many years and having owned multitude of Wharfedale speakers, I believe I am not far from the reality here.

Cheers.

Most reviews in hifi mags were done using ver1 .At least thats what I could observe.Maybe the dealers were alerted or maybe not until eventually the information got around.I did buy anticipating i would be receiving the ver1.

 

[Elmario]

Hi there, I am a bit of a novice (or noob ) regarding specs and setup of speakers. I run into an issue and I hope you lovely people here can help me out.

I have recently bought a set of Wharfedale speakers. 2x Diamond 11.3 floorstanding speakers, 2x Diamond 11.2 bookshelfs (for surround) and a Diamond 11CS in a 5.0 setup. The are connected to a Marantz Nr1504 AVR which amplifies at max 50W per channel. Unfortunately this AVR lacks an equalizer of tonal contral.

First off: these speakers have passed the Wife Acceptance Factor and they are a huge improvement from my previous setup which was a little Harman Kardon 5.1 setup .

What I am noticing though is that the 11.3 floorstanding speakers lack body and punch in the low end. They are overruled by the warm bodied sound of the 11.2 bookshelfs. I find myself in doubt of even swapping the floorstanding speakers to the back for surround.

That can't be the intention, right?

For additional info here are the specs of the speakers:
Diamond 11.3.

Specifications
Description	2.5-way floorstanding speaker
Bass Driver	5"(130mm) Woven Kevlar Cone
Midrange Driver	5"(130mm) Woven Kevlar Cone
Treble Driver	1"(25mm) Textile Dome
Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m)	90dB
Recommended amp power	25-125W
Peak SPL	102dB
Nominal impedance	8 Ω compatible
Minimum Impedance	3.9Ω
Frequency Response (+/-3dB)	44Hz ~ 20kHz
Bass Extension (-6dB)	35Hz
Crossover Frequency	3.1kHz
Cabinet Volume (in litres)	29.2L
Dimensions (HxWxD)	(875+25) x 194 x (285+38)mm
Net Weight	13.8kg/pcs

Diamond 11.2

Specifications
Description	2-way bookshelf
Bass Driver	6.5"(150mm) Woven Kevlar Cone
Midrange Driver
Treble Driver	1"(25mm) Textile Dome
Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m)	88dB
Recommended amp power	25-125W
Peak SPL	96dB
Nominal impedance	8 Ω compatible
Minimum Impedance	4.2Ω
Frequency Response (+/-3dB)	48Hz ~ 20kHz
Bass Extension (-6dB)	40Hz
Crossover Frequency	2.6kHz
Cabinet Volume (in litres)	13.2L
Dimensions (HxWxD)	355 x 221 x (290+32)mm
Net Weight	7.4kg/pcs

 

[gasolin]

Change the front speakers to large ?

I also see you don't have a subwoofer, get one