Warm to neutral amp for £1,500?

[admin_exported]

My Quad 405 sounds a bit brittle and harsh. It has superb midrange and lots of detail but is a bit lean in the bottom end and fatiguing.

My Rotel RA03 has a very well judged tonal balance and is the warm side of neutral in comparison to the Quad. Criticisms are a slightly bloated bottom end and a slightly veiled midrange. Very enjoyable to listen to for hours on end but struggles to make sense of the mids sometimes.

So with a budget of something like £1.5k what should I consider replacing them with?

i) Netaudio Quad 405 MK3 overhaul for £400 matched with a carefully selected, used tube pre (e.g. Conrad Johnson PV10AL, Trilogy 902 Pre)
ii) Used Primare PRE30 and A30.2
iii) New Primare I30
iv) Some sort of used valve integrated with a bag of power (40W+)
v) Krell 300i (random but I've seen one up for sale recently)
vi) Unison Unico hybrid
vii) Other...

Option i is current fav as I think it might work really well. Problem is, I can't try the Quad upgrade before buying.

Has anyone any thoughts, opinions, advice? I listen to all types of music, love decent midrange and hate brightness, harshness or boominess. I love my Spendors and will definitely not part with them.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[the record spot]

Pure Sound A30? Valve amp, about £1100 new I think - very good reviews (Hi Fi World) plus the guy down at Loud and Clear in Edinburgh really rather rates it too...certainly, if I was in that price bracket today, I'd be shortlisting it.

 

[chebby]

Or a Prima Luna Prologue Two valve integrated for £1200 (40 watts per channel)....

http://www.primaluna.nl/products_subpage1a2p.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks chaps, I'll take a look...

 

[SHAXOS]

Igg. You probibly know what im gonna say but get a demo on a kw550 (I got a new one for not too much more than 1500 delivered). Its simply stunning. I reckon you would be able to get an ex dem within your price. Its the best integrated ive ever heard and before buying i heard all the usual suspects from krell, primare, naim and cyrus. Try and get a demo especially as i think you have had mf before and i reckon the valve preamp stage will give you the warmth you are after.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd try a Sonneteer Orton, a lovely sounding amp, very refined, smooth and detailed without having the sometimes hassles of owning valves. Icon Audio, if you do like owning valves, their range of amps are so good, I love listening to their kit. Also LFD are worth a listen along with Audion and Sudgen.

 

[the record spot]

Yes, good call on the Icon Audio gear. They have the Stereo 20 and Stereo 40 - both valve amps - at £500 and £1000. The pricier of the two (I can't recall which is which from the model numbers alas) picked upa good review elsewhere recently.

 

[Anonymous]

Shaxos - good call. I've heard the pre/power version with the big MA Platinum floor standers; frightening experience. The detail that was being picked up floored me, not to mention bass to destroy small houses. I'll keep an eye out for some of the integrated ones. I like the idea of being able to get it serviced easily in future but was never sure about the likes of Primare.

Silly - Soneteer, a name I've heard in passing. I'll see how far I need to drive to audition one but I like the idea. Sugden is too low powered for my speakers, except the rather pricey Masterclass! Audion, not sure I'll ever find somewhere to audition those...

Thanks very much to you all, some cracking suggestions...

(dashes off to look up KW550)

 

[cse]

Don't forget Densen

 

[Thaiman]

i) I am not a Quad man so can't comment, sorry (even though my best friend use to make components for Quad!)

ii) Top sound, I love them

iii) A little too soft and laid back for my taste but soulful all the same.

iV) I would recomend Puresound A30 (not 40 watts but sound as it is)

v) krell 300i is brutal! load of bass and grip but i wouldn't call it warm, the 400Xi is warmer and has more details

vi) Now we are talking warmth sounding amp.

vii) Sugden/Lavardin/BorderPatrol/B.A.T/Pathos.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks mate. I was under the impression that the Primare I30 was less warm than the 30.2

 

[Thaiman]

igglebert:Thanks mate. I was under the impression that the Primare I30 was less warm than the 30.2

Someone posted elsewhere along that line too. I don't think one are warmer than other as such but Pre/power seem to have more of everything. Note: I found that I get a better sound from the Primare Pre/power when XLR connections were used! I hate to admitted this btw.

 

[Anonymous]

Anyone had any experience of Croft kit?

 

[Don Guess]

Go for valves..

Puresound A30 has been mentioned so how about an Eastern Electric M520

 

[Anonymous]

I really want to go for valves but my speakers are 84db sensitivity and need a fair heft of power allegedly. I believe they're pretty benign in terms of impedance variation but they measure to 8 ohms dropping to no less than 6.

I need to try some valve kit to see how it goes but I'm really not sure what level of power is sensible to get a decent sound.

 

[Don Guess]

84db and hard to drive makes affordable valve amps less of an obvious choice..

You've hit the nail on the head though - you need to listen. The trouble is it's hard to find a dealer that stocks a good range of gear.

Good luck..

 

[batonwielder]

If you wait a bit the new Rega Elicit could be worth an audition.ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Good call, I thought that when I heard the news of it's release. Eagerly awaited!

 

[drummerman]

I would have thought that Cambridges 840A v2 might give you the clarity of Class A without some of the problems I normally find with those products such as a glassy sound. It has a lovely fluid midrange, no harshness and good bass. I dont know if it is warm enough for you but it has power to spare and you can try it out without obligation to buy. Half your budget too and probably as good or better than many amps costing much more. It will most certainly sound more open, extended and controlled than the Rotel. Arguably too controlled but the upshot is a superbly balanced sound that stays that way no matter what the volume, quiet or loud. Other than that I agree with some of the comments about good valve amplifiers. They sound watt for watt more powerful than Transistor stuff and many people never go back after. It truly can be magic but I said it before, most valve amplifiers I've heard shine with reasonably efficient paper coned speakers. Plastic rarely does it though I'm sure it can be done that way too if matched carefully.

 

[JoelSim]

If I had £1500 to spend, then probably the last thing I would look at would be CA.

ÿ

 

[Drummerdave]

I'd have to recommend the AVI Lab Series Integrated. Can be had for a lot less than the £1600 asking price these days and has a very neutral sound as well as being usefully powerful with 175 wpc.

 

[drummerman]

JoelSim:
If I had £1500 to spend, then probably the last thing I would look at would be CA.

Why is that buddy?

 

[Anonymous]

AVI Lab series could be a good choice as I've heard good things about them. Not going to be easy to work out what sort of sound it is with a used buy though.

The Cambridge stuff does look like a pretty nice option but I'm really after a 'keeper' like my Quad. I want an amp that will last a long time that can be serviced and repaired if need be. A Croft integrated will probably last upwards of 30 years but I can't see an 840 doing that. But then again, for the money it would be another step up the ladder...

I have to say DM, you've wet my appetite for the 840 series so am quite curious to see what it's like. My CDP and speakers are very neutral so I might be after a bit of colour from the amp. If so then the 840 might be a bit dull.

 

[SHAXOS]

Igg i used to have the 840 v1. Very decent amp. But with your budget i reckon you can do much better. I upgraded from the 840v1 to bel canto gear which was far superior(imo). Now my latest upgrade really does flatten the other amps ive had.

 

[SHAXOS]

Forgot to mention - i went through 4 (NO LIE) Cambridge amps in the space of 2 years. Problems ranging from dead channel, dead input selectors and finally amps that turn up on there own on the 840. So i could never whole heartidly recommend one. Maybe i was (very very very) unlucky? Or maybe there are reliability issues? Something to consider.