Valve amp pros and cons
- Thread starter John Duncan
- Start date
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
I've always wondered what those ebay good-looking specials for around £150 delivered are like. I'mn guessing not that great, but am not willing to risk 20 CDs worth on it!
I was thinking iTube 182 kind of thing....
I mean I can go and listen to one, obviously, but - just for example - how much heat do they give out? Do they need to be left on all the time to sound half decent (and therefore room is like an oven)? Does bass timing go all to hell? What's valve longevity like?
Yadda yadda
I mean I can go and listen to one, obviously, but - just for example - how much heat do they give out? Do they need to be left on all the time to sound half decent (and therefore room is like an oven)? Does bass timing go all to hell? What's valve longevity like?
Yadda yadda
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
The valves do get warm (hot even to the touch) but unless you are running a 100w monster, it ain't gonna heat the room up. But if your wont is to keep electricity costs down, it might not be such a good idea - they are better left on, if nothing else for the thermal cycling effects dramatically reducing the life of the valves...
Having had solid state for the whole of my hifi history i have recently gone valve.ÿ
I never considered valve until i kept hearing dealers tell me i should try valve after hearing my comments on SS amps costing 1k +ÿ
Now i own a puresound a30. It kills every other SS amp i have listened to.
For me music simply HAS to sound musical, tonally accurate and well balanced. Nearly all of the solid state amps i listen to packed in a lot of detail, some had excellent soundstages, some had superb drive and overall very good timing. What are these things? Technical terms, what was i doing, critically analysing the sound. I shouldn't be doing that, it means i'm not LISTENING and enjoying the music which is what its all about.ÿ
Since searching and listening to valves everything changed. Valves are glorious, wonderfully musical, smooth yet highly detailed. For me its ALWAYS about the music. I don't partically care if the timing isn't as pacey or whatever the technical terms are. Since listening to valves everything started to sound like music again.
Put it this way, i just bought a puresound a30. A truly awesome amplifier in my setup. My music no longer sounds hifi or digital which was a massive issue for me. The sound now is massive, depth is fantastic, 3d i guess. More importantly the sound is undeniably musical. Gorgeous tone, it makes a massive difference. I know how instruments sound and the a30 produces them wonderfully. In everything i have tried good valve amps has been the only things that can repdouce sax or guitar solos musically and accurate without sound brash or grate.ÿ
Put it this way, i haven't listened to dark side of the moon and enjoyed it for nearly 3 years, on my kit or any demo kit i have tried. Since i got my valve amp it was wonderful to enjoy this album and all its musical brilliance and conviction.
Some valve amps i tried are v.laid back and a bit loose sounding but still musical. The puresound a30 was incredibly punchy and timed very well, also very tight control and keeps compusure at high volumes, an excellent valve amp where others similar priced fall down.
ÿ
Downsides, well i can't really fault it. Music sounds wonderful now, my feet are tapping to the most obscure records. ÿ
ÿ
I never considered valve until i kept hearing dealers tell me i should try valve after hearing my comments on SS amps costing 1k +ÿ
Now i own a puresound a30. It kills every other SS amp i have listened to.
For me music simply HAS to sound musical, tonally accurate and well balanced. Nearly all of the solid state amps i listen to packed in a lot of detail, some had excellent soundstages, some had superb drive and overall very good timing. What are these things? Technical terms, what was i doing, critically analysing the sound. I shouldn't be doing that, it means i'm not LISTENING and enjoying the music which is what its all about.ÿ
Since searching and listening to valves everything changed. Valves are glorious, wonderfully musical, smooth yet highly detailed. For me its ALWAYS about the music. I don't partically care if the timing isn't as pacey or whatever the technical terms are. Since listening to valves everything started to sound like music again.
Put it this way, i just bought a puresound a30. A truly awesome amplifier in my setup. My music no longer sounds hifi or digital which was a massive issue for me. The sound now is massive, depth is fantastic, 3d i guess. More importantly the sound is undeniably musical. Gorgeous tone, it makes a massive difference. I know how instruments sound and the a30 produces them wonderfully. In everything i have tried good valve amps has been the only things that can repdouce sax or guitar solos musically and accurate without sound brash or grate.ÿ
Put it this way, i haven't listened to dark side of the moon and enjoyed it for nearly 3 years, on my kit or any demo kit i have tried. Since i got my valve amp it was wonderful to enjoy this album and all its musical brilliance and conviction.
Some valve amps i tried are v.laid back and a bit loose sounding but still musical. The puresound a30 was incredibly punchy and timed very well, also very tight control and keeps compusure at high volumes, an excellent valve amp where others similar priced fall down.
ÿ
Downsides, well i can't really fault it. Music sounds wonderful now, my feet are tapping to the most obscure records. ÿ
ÿ
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
The A30 is quite a serious bit of kit though - over £1k isn't it? Have you any experience of lower-end ones?
In response to your specific questionsÿ
ÿ
I was in your position about a month ago and was looking at the 182 too. I've heard nothing but good reviews about the fatman range but absolutly nowhere has reviewed at as a true audiophile amp and in the end i never got to listen to it.
However, i spoke to literally every dealer within a 50 mile radious and the people who had experienced any fatman products said they were blown away by what it was capable of. I had a brief listen to a carbon and it did sound much better than a SS equivalant thats for sure. It even had crappy speakers on it.
I think the 182 will still be wonderfully smooth, pretty detailed and very enjoyable. When you get music thats enjoyable it doesn't matter if it has a few technical flaws... unless they annoy you.
Yes it is true, poor valve amps can sound worse than SS, they can shrill, be flabby and loose in the bass. They do put out a bit of heat. Just the same as a standard (non energy saving lightbulb). The won't heat up your room, especially at 18watts.
In my experience at 18 watts you will need sensitive speakers to go loud and be drive well. 90db is a very decent benchmark to start at.
ÿ
Oh and power consumption, don't worry about this at all. Its so insignificant unless you leave it turned on. So many of us have plasma's or LCD's these days. An average 42-46inch plasma will put out on average 120watts - 340watts constant variable. Valve amps will use between 200watts and 300watts of power. Pennies for an evenings listening. You don't think twice about your hungry plasma, your very hungry AV reciever etc.
ÿEven SS amps are high rated. My old kit was rated at 630watts at full wack although that would be too loud to listen to.ÿÿ
ÿ
ÿ
I was in your position about a month ago and was looking at the 182 too. I've heard nothing but good reviews about the fatman range but absolutly nowhere has reviewed at as a true audiophile amp and in the end i never got to listen to it.
However, i spoke to literally every dealer within a 50 mile radious and the people who had experienced any fatman products said they were blown away by what it was capable of. I had a brief listen to a carbon and it did sound much better than a SS equivalant thats for sure. It even had crappy speakers on it.
I think the 182 will still be wonderfully smooth, pretty detailed and very enjoyable. When you get music thats enjoyable it doesn't matter if it has a few technical flaws... unless they annoy you.
Yes it is true, poor valve amps can sound worse than SS, they can shrill, be flabby and loose in the bass. They do put out a bit of heat. Just the same as a standard (non energy saving lightbulb). The won't heat up your room, especially at 18watts.
In my experience at 18 watts you will need sensitive speakers to go loud and be drive well. 90db is a very decent benchmark to start at.
ÿ
Oh and power consumption, don't worry about this at all. Its so insignificant unless you leave it turned on. So many of us have plasma's or LCD's these days. An average 42-46inch plasma will put out on average 120watts - 340watts constant variable. Valve amps will use between 200watts and 300watts of power. Pennies for an evenings listening. You don't think twice about your hungry plasma, your very hungry AV reciever etc.
ÿEven SS amps are high rated. My old kit was rated at 630watts at full wack although that would be too loud to listen to.ÿÿ
ÿ
fatboyslimfast:The A30 is quite a serious bit of kit though - over £1k isn't it? Have you any experience of lower-end ones?
I listened to an icon audio 25 which is £500 new. It was a very good amp, shrilled a bit a volume but that was because my speakers aren't sensitive enough. Bass was slightly loose.
An icon audio 40 - 2nd hand would be a superb buy and about £100 more than the fatman 182 - although the fatman 182 could be a great bit of kit, i wish i had listened to it just to see. I know of a 40 Mk11 up for sale if anyone is interested.
Other ones i have heard that get great reviews is an assembled KEL84 but again you will need sensitive speakers. If i was on a budget i would be looking for a 2nd hand puresound a30 circa £600, 2nd/hand icon audio 40, or a KEL84 from somewhere. All give you slightly differentÿdeliveraryÿand all VERY good amps althought i haven't heard the KEL, it gets a lot of attention and is worth a listen! ÿÿ
I listened to an icon audio 25 which is £500 new. It was a very good amp, shrilled a bit a volume but that was because my speakers aren't sensitive enough. Bass was slightly loose.
An icon audio 40 - 2nd hand would be a superb buy and about £100 more than the fatman 182 - although the fatman 182 could be a great bit of kit, i wish i had listened to it just to see. I know of a 40 Mk11 up for sale if anyone is interested.
Other ones i have heard that get great reviews is an assembled KEL84 but again you will need sensitive speakers. If i was on a budget i would be looking for a 2nd hand puresound a30 circa £600, 2nd/hand icon audio 40, or a KEL84 from somewhere. All give you slightly differentÿdeliveraryÿand all VERY good amps althought i haven't heard the KEL, it gets a lot of attention and is worth a listen! ÿÿ
chebby
Well-known member
Our hosts like it.....
http://whathifi.com/Review/Fatman-iTube-182-iTube-dock/
Quote..
"This iTube 182 would be a very fine purchase even without the dock. It's walking a line between being the best iPod system we've heard, and an impressive £500-worth of stereo amplifier..."
Also check out the Prima Luna Prologue One
http://whathifi.com/Review/Fatman-iTube-182-iTube-dock/
Quote..
"This iTube 182 would be a very fine purchase even without the dock. It's walking a line between being the best iPod system we've heard, and an impressive £500-worth of stereo amplifier..."
Also check out the Prima Luna Prologue One
Apart from Icon Audio, the Affordable Valve Company make some mid-range (£650 and upwards) amps which apparently Andrew Everard rated well in a Gramophone review some time back.
I've just started using the Little Dot MKIII tube headphone/pre-amp. Just love the sound, more realism, huge soundstage, lashings of detail couldn't ask for more. Con's; well a little heat but not as much as I expected. I will definitely audition some tubes when I upgrade my main amp. I say give it a try, even just for the glow!
oldskoo1:
For me music simply HAS to sound musical, tonally accurate and well balanced. Nearly all of the solid state amps i listen to packed in a lot of detail, some had excellent soundstages, some had superb drive and overall very good timing. What are these things? Technical terms, what was i doing, critically analysing the sound. I shouldn't be doing that, it means i'm not LISTENING and enjoying the music which is what its all about.
I absolutely agree. The good thing about tubes is you forget about audiophile nonsense and just enjoy the music. Actually, when I made direct comparisons between my current (and humble) tube amp, and other most costly SS amps that I owned, there was always some areas where the SS amps were superior; particularly regarding bass timing, speed and slam (but, on the other hand, I have heard EL34 based tube amps with more power than mine, with a bass kick superior than anything I have heard from a SS amp; probably comparable to a Bryston, but at a fraction of the latter price). But everytime I switched to the tube amp, instead of analizing the performance, I would just listen to the music until the CD was over, instead of continuing the AB test! And that's the goal of a hi-fi component.
Now, I'm not saying tubes are better; but many people agree that once you get into tubes, you cannot go back to SS. It's like an addiction. Only, it's a good one, since it heals to some extent your "audiophilia nerviosa".
For me music simply HAS to sound musical, tonally accurate and well balanced. Nearly all of the solid state amps i listen to packed in a lot of detail, some had excellent soundstages, some had superb drive and overall very good timing. What are these things? Technical terms, what was i doing, critically analysing the sound. I shouldn't be doing that, it means i'm not LISTENING and enjoying the music which is what its all about.
I absolutely agree. The good thing about tubes is you forget about audiophile nonsense and just enjoy the music. Actually, when I made direct comparisons between my current (and humble) tube amp, and other most costly SS amps that I owned, there was always some areas where the SS amps were superior; particularly regarding bass timing, speed and slam (but, on the other hand, I have heard EL34 based tube amps with more power than mine, with a bass kick superior than anything I have heard from a SS amp; probably comparable to a Bryston, but at a fraction of the latter price). But everytime I switched to the tube amp, instead of analizing the performance, I would just listen to the music until the CD was over, instead of continuing the AB test! And that's the goal of a hi-fi component.
Now, I'm not saying tubes are better; but many people agree that once you get into tubes, you cannot go back to SS. It's like an addiction. Only, it's a good one, since it heals to some extent your "audiophilia nerviosa".
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