Upgrade old CD player to what?

[CnoEvil]

Rather interestingly, Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, thinks anyone who spends much more than a grand on a CDP must be stark raving mad!

He's not far wrong!!

 

[Macspur]

Rather interestingly, Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, thinks anyone who spends much more than a grand on a CDP must be stark raving mad!

He's not far wrong!!

To enlarge; in Mr Shaw's opinion there is no sonic difference between players over that budget. In fact, I believe his comments weren't just confined to the one type of source.

Cheers

 

[CnoEvil]

Rather interestingly, Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, thinks anyone who spends much more than a grand on a CDP must be stark raving mad!

He's not far wrong!!

To enlarge; in Mr Shaw's opinion there is no sonic difference between players over that budget. In fact, I believe his comments weren't just confined to the one type of source.

Cheers

I hope my comment didn't come across as personal. I was referring in general to the eclectic bunch in this madhouse, of which I'm a fully signed up member.

 

[CnoEvil]

Good to know. Not sure if I like being likened to a frog though

I was attempting to refer to the rejected equipment, as being "frogs"....so I think it's time to hop sheepishly to bed (while taking my other foot out of my mouth).

 

[Thaiman]

Don't know about you, but I hate the guilt feeling when I have a demo and have to break it to the dealer, the kits not to my liking, especially if they've taken the trouble for a home dem.

Cheers

don't worry, delaer like Trev got use to that years ago!

I agree. My dealers keep stuff for the purpose of lending out. They play the long game, where meeting customer aspirations pays good dividends. A good dealer understands the need to home demo, and that a few frogs may be kissed in the process.....they are also well aware of the upgradeitus phenomenon, and will have "just the thing" to try, when it strikes. :shifty:

Good to know. Not sure if I like being likened to a frog though

Rather interestingly, Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, thinks anyone who spends much more than a grand on a CDP must be stark raving mad!

cheers

may be with his speakers, you couldn't tell any different between a good and a bad source

 

[Al ears]

Don't know about you, but I hate the guilt feeling when I have a demo and have to break it to the dealer, the kits not to my liking, especially if they've taken the trouble for a home dem.

Cheers

don't worry, delaer like Trev got use to that years ago!

I agree. My dealers keep stuff for the purpose of lending out. They play the long game, where meeting customer aspirations pays good dividends. A good dealer understands the need to home demo, and that a few frogs may be kissed in the process.....they are also well aware of the upgradeitus phenomenon, and will have "just the thing" to try, when it strikes. :shifty:

Good to know. Not sure if I like being likened to a frog though

Rather interestingly, Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, thinks anyone who spends much more than a grand on a CDP must be stark raving mad!

cheers

may be with his speakers, you couldn't tell any different between a good and a bad source

Ooh. Ouch! :O

 

[Macspur]

Good to know. Not sure if I like being likened to a frog though

I was attempting to refer to the rejected equipment, as being "frogs"....so I think it's time to hop sheepishly to bed (while taking my other foot out of my mouth).

Only pulling your leg Cno... really made me chuckle.

Your one of the most informed bods on this forum and all comments are valued.

 

[paradiziac]

Rather interestingly, Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, thinks anyone who spends much more than a grand on a CDP must be stark raving mad!

cheers

may be with his speakers, you couldn't tell any different between a good and a bad source

+1 Thaiman I bet he wouldn't say that if he also produced CD players, LOL! He says the same thing about his speakers not needing powerful expensive amps, which from my personal experience just isn't true. About the only sensible thing he bangs on about is trusting your own ears.

In fact, I trust my ears more than Alan Shaw's.

 

[Anonymous]

I think I'll ask Trevor from GA if he'll do a home dem for me with the Krell and I might check out the matching amp while I'm at it.

Trevor will be at the Reading Moat House Hotel this weekend demoing some of his stuff, so may be you can get along to that and pick his brains? You might also get a chance to listen to some useful gear, I know Wadia will be on demo. I'm hoping to get down tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Macspur]

I think I'll ask Trevor from GA if he'll do a home dem for me with the Krell and I might check out the matching amp while I'm at it.

Trevor will be at the Reading Moat House Hotel this weekend demoing some of his stuff, so may be you can get along to that and pick his brains? You might also get a chance to listen to some useful gear, I know Wadia will be on demo. I'm hoping to get down tomorrow afternoon.

I'd love to go, but unfortunately as I don't drive due to being blind, not sure how easy it would be to get there, plus my trusty hound is poorly at the moment.

Perhaps if you do get there, you could post your thoughts.

BTW, any thoughts of going for that 861SE yourself?

Cheers

 

[Anonymous]

I'd love to go, but unfortunately as I don't drive due to being blind, not sure how easy it would be to get there, plus my trusty hound is poorly at the moment.

Perhaps if you do get there, you could post your thoughts.

BTW, any thoughts of going for that 861SE yourself?

Cheers

You didnt pass on a pair of ATC SCM40s to Trevor did you?

Won't be going for the 861SE myself, already got the 861 and I don't think the SE will be that much of an upgrade. I'm quite happy with the 861 and if I do ever upgrade, will be to a more modern variant.

Will let you know what I hear in Reading

 

[Macspur]

I'd love to go, but unfortunately as I don't drive due to being blind, not sure how easy it would be to get there, plus my trusty hound is poorly at the moment.

Perhaps if you do get there, you could post your thoughts.

BTW, any thoughts of going for that 861SE yourself?

Cheers

You didnt pass on a pair of ATC SCM40s to Trevor did you?

Won't be going for the 861SE myself, already got the 861 and I don't think the SE will be that much of an upgrade. I'm quite happy with the 861 and if I do ever upgrade, will be to a more modern variant.

Will let you know what I hear in Reading

Guilty as charged me lord... really did like the 40's, just a bad match with my other components.

Look forward to your report on Reading.

Cheers

 

[Anonymous]

Guilty as charged me lord... really did like the 40's, just a bad match with my other components.

Well...they're now sitting in my lounge!!! And I have to say I'm very happy with them and that could be down to the synergy with my source and amp.

Depending on where you are (cos I'd have to pick you up), you're more than welcome to come hear my setup which will reveal whether the SCM40s are tamed by the Wadia and my beefy MOSFET amplification. Where are you located? If you want my email address, scroll down to the bottom of this page clicky

 

[Macspur]

Rather interestingly, Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, thinks anyone who spends much more than a grand on a CDP must be stark raving mad!

cheers

may be with his speakers, you couldn't tell any different between a good and a bad source

+1 Thaiman I bet he wouldn't say that if he also produced CD players, LOL! He says the same thing about his speakers not needing powerful expensive amps, which from my personal experience just isn't true. About the only sensible thing he bangs on about is trusting your own ears.

In fact, I trust my ears more than Alan Shaw's.

These were his actual words;

"Harbeth speakers do not need big amplifiers. Generally speaking, 25W per channel is a sensible minimum across the range. That will get you going but 25W won't produce the maximum loudness that a Harbeth is capable of: for that you'll need a bigger amp. If you play soft, late at night or you don't want to annoy your neighbours then a few watts will be enough power. What if you have a really powerful amplifier? A bigger amp, like a bigger car engine, will give you a power reserve which you may or may not ever need depending on your music listening habits. Obviously, if your children take control of your hi-fi then a more powerful amplifier could/may/will do more damage just as a powerful car driven too fast can/may/will. In brief: use whatever power you have responsibly".

Cheers

 

[paradiziac]

These were his actual words;

"Harbeth speakers do not need big amplifiers. Generally speaking, 25W per channel is a sensible minimum across the range. That will get you going but 25W won't produce the maximum loudness that a Harbeth is capable of: for that you'll need a bigger amp. If you play soft, late at night or you don't want to annoy your neighbours then a few watts will be enough power. What if you have a really powerful amplifier? A bigger amp, like a bigger car engine, will give you a power reserve which you may or may not ever need depending on your music listening habits. Obviously, if your children take control of your hi-fi then a more powerful amplifier could/may/will do more damage just as a powerful car driven too fast can/may/will. In brief: use whatever power you have responsibly".

I thought the idea of a more powerful amp was not more loudness, but more grip/control/dynamic headroom?

Wonder what music he listens to?

 

[Thaiman]

Rather interestingly, Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, thinks anyone who spends much more than a grand on a CDP must be stark raving mad!

cheers

may be with his speakers, you couldn't tell any different between a good and a bad source

+1 Thaiman I bet he wouldn't say that if he also produced CD players, LOL! He says the same thing about his speakers not needing powerful expensive amps, which from my personal experience just isn't true. About the only sensible thing he bangs on about is trusting your own ears.

In fact, I trust my ears more than Alan Shaw's.

These were his actual words;

"Harbeth speakers do not need big amplifiers. Generally speaking, 25W per channel is a sensible minimum across the range. That will get you going but 25W won't produce the maximum loudness that a Harbeth is capable of: for that you'll need a bigger amp. If you play soft, late at night or you don't want to annoy your neighbours then a few watts will be enough power. What if you have a really powerful amplifier? A bigger amp, like a bigger car engine, will give you a power reserve which you may or may not ever need depending on your music listening habits. Obviously, if your children take control of your hi-fi then a more powerful amplifier could/may/will do more damage just as a powerful car driven too fast can/may/will. In brief: use whatever power you have responsibly".

Cheers

"Children take control of your Hifi" :shame: :doh:

As a whole it's not a bad sales pitch I suppose. I remember the totally opposite end of the scale, "You can't have enough power" by musical fidelity where they told you that the average system need at least 200 watts per channel! :silenced:

 

[Anonymous]

I remember the totally opposite end of the scale, "You can't have enough power" by musical fidelity where they told you that the average system need at least 200 watts per channel! :silenced:

[/quote]

Only 200W? Oh, then you need to add their 550W super chargers

I personally think more is better. I'd rather have too much power on tap and not need it, than have not enough and be left wanting. But then I do like my music loud on occasion, and like to "feel" as well as "hear" the music :rockout: :dance:

 

[paradiziac]

So I wonder what the companies who make CDs + amps + speakers advise? System synergy is the key?

 

[Thaiman]

So I wonder what the companies who make CDs + amps + speakers advise? System synergy is the key?

Synergy is the key but not the easiest to achieve.

There are few brands that has been proven (or Is it the hype!) that work well together. Naim and Kudos (use to be Neat), Bryston and PMC, Sonus faber and Krell, Mcintosh and A.R.T, Avalon and conrad Johnson.

For those who has been into Hifi hobby (UK base) for a while may spot the pattern that is going on here.

 

[Anonymous]

These were his actual words;

"Harbeth speakers do not need big amplifiers. Generally speaking, 25W per channel is a sensible minimum across the range. That will get you going but 25W won't produce the maximum loudness that a Harbeth is capable of: for that you'll need a bigger amp. If you play soft, late at night or you don't want to annoy your neighbours then a few watts will be enough power. What if you have a really powerful amplifier? A bigger amp, like a bigger car engine, will give you a power reserve which you may or may not ever need depending on your music listening habits. Obviously, if your children take control of your hi-fi then a more powerful amplifier could/may/will do more damage just as a powerful car driven too fast can/may/will. In brief: use whatever power you have responsibly".

Cheers

Hi Macspur,

Went to the Reading Moat House Hotel and listened to a variety of equipment, it was very VERY interesting from a personal standpoint. First off was a vinyl of Dire Straits running through what looked like a small valve amp and square boxy speakers.

I thought it sounded horrid. Absolutely horrid. All strained and boxy, loads of colouration in the upper bass and mids. I asked what speaker they were - Harbeth Super HL5 - what you now have. I think this demonstrates that we have very different tastes, since you obviously like the Harbeths, and I like the ATCs - all clean neutral and revealing. I couldn't think of speakers that could sound so different.

Also playing in an end room was a pair of Wilson Sophias off some funny looking CD player [Metronome Kallista?] and I think Audio Ref amp. I was not much impressed with these either!

Room 3 was a pair of Magnapane 3.7s, I forget what the front end was. Better...but still not my cup of tea, especially given the amount of room they need. Still sounded a little boxy if you can believe that...

Room 4 was what I was expecting...but then the price of the kit was close to £100k I reckon...Wadia 9 4 box player (with the 571 transport I guess), Dan D'Agostino Momentum amps and Wilson Duet speakers. Had some piano playing on these, and it sounded fantastic. But then for close to £100k I would help so!

So I learnt one important lesson, that will save me £££s...be truthful to yourself and your ears, do not be tempted by what others are saying or what they think. I clearly now have a hifi that sounds almost perfect to my ears, and can bettered only by spending considerably more, and considerably carefully. But what suits me won't suit others.

I thank you sincerely for departing with the SCM40s

 

[Macspur]

Hi Dr Lodge,

Thanks for the report.

Looks like we're both happy then... good news.

Any idea what the other components were with the Harbeths?

Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

Any idea what the other components were with the Harbeths?

Don't know I'm afraid...it was a turntable (beefy) and what looked like a fairly small valve amp - probably was the preamp, and there were lots of other larger valve amps on the floor so I'd guess the speakers were valve powered. This might account for the abundance of "warmth".

As for that 861SE for £3k, I just saw a Wadia 581i go on Ebay for a fraction over that which IMO is a much better buy.

How are you getting on re changing out the CDX2? I've got a old Meridian 206B that would be interesting to compare, very smooth sound.

 

[Macspur]

Yes I saw that go yesterday... really want to go with a dealer if poss who may be willing to trade in the Naim.

I'm putting it on the back burner for now... few other things going on, unless something too tempting comes up.

A Meridian G08 did interest me at one point, but one dealer put me off saying that it would be too polite in my system

Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

A Meridian G08 did interest me at one point, but one dealer put me off saying that it would be too polite in my system

Yes, well "polite" would described my 206B quite well.

I can appreciate you wanting a dealer to get something like a Wadia from, and to trade in your CDX2 with. All this gear is expensive, and if bought privately, can be quite risky.

 

[Macspur]

A Meridian G08 did interest me at one point, but one dealer put me off saying that it would be too polite in my system

Yes, well "polite" would described my 206B quite well.

I can appreciate you wanting a dealer to get something like a Wadia from, and to trade in your CDX2 with. All this gear is expensive, and if bought privately, can be quite risky.

Absolutely right. If I only had myself to consider I'd probably take a risk, but you know, responsibilities and all that.

Did you buy your 861 brand new?

If you do happen to see or hear of any good deals, perhaps you wouldn't mind letting me know.

Cheers