Turntable Focused System Suggestions Please?

[Witterings]

I'm looking for suggestions for a system for a friend, the one part he's passionate about is playing vinyl so the turntable would probably be the starting point and money is virtually no object ... BUT ... he doesn't believe in wasting money so am trying to find something at the cusp of diminishing returns i.e. a cost point where you notice a considerable difference from the price bracket below but hardly any difference in the price bracket above.


The room is fairly modern and clutter free so ideally something in keeping which probably suggests no external phono stage, it’s about 25 x 15 feet, the worst part it’s fairly sparsely furnished and tiled floors which is unlikely to change but may possibly look at some acoustic treatment later on.


After the turntable will be looking for an amp / speakers so any suggestions for those known to pair well appreciated, a very approximate price range is 2/3k for an amp and £3/4k for speakers but I don't play vinyl so have no idea what price range a turntable that correlates would be.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[Al ears]

I would suggest, if vinyl is going to be the primary source of music, you need to spend as much, or more, on the turntable as you do the amplifier.
That said you will have to spend quite a bit to better the fully balanced Pro-ject X2B but you will need the matching external phono preamp, the Phono Box S3B or DS3B.
This set-up would be capable of taking many future moving coil cartridges.
The speakers would actually have to be auditoned by your friend as we don't have his ears or his listening room

 

[Witterings]

I would suggest, if vinyl is going to be the primary source of music, you need to spend as much, or more, on the turntable as you do the amplifier.
That said you will have to spend quite a bit to better the fully balanced Pro-ject X2B but you will need the matching external phono preamp, the Phono Box S3B or DS3B.
This set-up would be capable of taking many future moving coil cartridges.
The speakers would actually have to be auditoned by your friend as we don't have his ears or his listening room

Brillinat - Thank you for that as a starter, what I know about turntables could be writen on the edge of a postage stamp so any info is helpful.
I totally get he'd need to trial the speakers, it's just to try and get an initial narrowing down to 2/3 pairs that are known to be reasonably comparable with the other parts.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

... he doesn't believe in wasting money

...but may possibly look at some acoustic treatment later on.

If there is excess reverberation in his room, he  will be wasting money until he sorts out the acoustics.
He may not want to hear that, but it's an unavoidable fact - confirmed to me by experience.

 

[Al ears]

If there is excess reverberation in his room, he  will be wasting money until he sorts out the acoustics.
He may not want to hear that, but it's an unavoidable fact - confirmed to me by experience.

At the very least he might need ro budget for some rugs.....

 

[Al ears]

Brillinat - Thank you for that as a starter, what I know about turntables could be writen on the edge of a postage stamp so any info is helpful.
I totally get he'd need to trial the speakers, it's just to try and get an initial narrowing down to 2/3 pairs that are known to be reasonably comparable with the other parts.

Unfortunately 'reasonably comparable' doesn't exist in hifi. I would suggest he goes and visits a dealer who will make suggestions but also, crucially, allow him to audition bits of kit.
In a room of that size I might suggest smallish floorstanders for the speakers but that is about as far as I can go as shortlists are useless unless you can actually get to audition those items on said list....

 

[Clarkey_71]

I'm not sure how much help I can be, but it might help some of the gurus here to know an approximate budget for the turntable.
Also whether standmounts or floor standing speakers are more popular.
Knowing whether they are looking for a one box (integrated) amp solution will also be helpful.
If they don't want multiple boxes, they may be limiting their range a little and as already mentioned, a phono stage may be needed if you a, can't find a suitable turntable with inbuilt phono stage or b, can't find a suitable amp with a phono stage.
Your friend has a very healthy budget, so clarifying these points will help others to help you.

 

[daytona600]

Pro-ject X2B but you will need the matching external phono preamp, the Phono Box S3B or DS3B.

Turntables / Amplifiers / Speakers & can be colour matched

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

www.project-audio.com

 

[Witterings]

I'm not sure how much help I can be, but it might help some of the gurus here to know an approximate budget for the turntable.
Also whether standmounts or floor standing speakers are more popular.
Knowing whether they are looking for a one box (integrated) amp solution will also be helpful.
If they don't want multiple boxes, they may be limiting their range a little and as already mentioned, a phono stage may be needed if you a, can't find a suitable turntable with inbuilt phono stage or b, can't find a suitable amp with a phono stage.
Your friend has a very healthy budget, so clarifying these points will help others to help you.

Literally there is no set budget for the turntable .... it's whatever's needed to get something "excellent" ... I've only used the approximate amounts for amp / speakers as I know that's a level that will get a superb level of kit.
If there's a £2k turntable and it's "OK" or there's a £10k one and it'll completely blow your socks off .... then it's the £10k one but you'd have to hear a significant difference between the two.
I was thinking floorstanders would probably be better due to the size of the room, it's a similar size to my lounge / diner and standmounts were a bit lost in there.

If there is excess reverberation in his room, he  will be wasting money until he sorts out the acoustics.
He may not want to hear that, but it's an unavoidable fact - confirmed to me by experience.

Totally get this, but we won't know what it's like until a system's actually in there and as @Al ears suggested it may be as simple as some rugs to resolve it.

Excuse my ignorance but if using say a Rega Elicit Mk5 ... does that have an inbuilt phono stage meaning you don't need an external one and if I'm right how would that compare quality wise to using an external one and different amp around the same budget or even an external one onto the Rega?

 

[Al ears]

The Rega does have an inbuilt moving magnet phono stage and it is of reasonably good quality.
Like everything it can be bettered if you use a reasonably priced external one that could also give you the opportunity to progress to Moving Coil cartridges in the future , should you wish to do so.

 

[Clarkey_71]

Literally there is no set budget for the turntable .... it's whatever's needed to get something "excellent" ... I've only used the approximate amounts for amp / speakers as I know that's a level that will get a superb level of kit.
If there's a £2k turntable and it's "OK" or there's a £10k one and it'll completely blow your socks off .... then it's the £10k one but you'd have to hear a significant difference between the two.
I was thinking floorstanders would probably be better due to the size of the room, it's a similar size to my lounge / diner and standmounts were a bit lost in there.



Totally get this, but we won't know what it's like until a system's actually in there and as @Al ears suggested it may be as simple as some rugs to resolve it.

Excuse my ignorance but if using say a Rega Elicit Mk5 ... does that have an inbuilt phono stage meaning you don't need an external one and if I'm right how would that compare quality wise to using an external one and different amp around the same budget or even an external one onto the Rega?

These two items might be a useful source of info for you, especially if you consider the external phono stage option.

Best record players 2023: best turntables for every budget

The best decks for your vinyl collection

www.whathifi.com

Best phono preamps 2023: budget to high-end phono stages

A turntable's best friend

www.whathifi.com

The phono stage will be more important if you choose a moving coil cartridge, as they have a lower output and of course will be essential if the amp you choose has no phono input.

 

[plastic penguin]

I'm looking for suggestions for a system for a friend, the one part he's passionate about is playing vinyl so the turntable would probably be the starting point and money is virtually no object ... BUT ... he doesn't believe in wasting money so am trying to find something at the cusp of diminishing returns i.e. a cost point where you notice a considerable difference from the price bracket below but hardly any difference in the price bracket above.


The room is fairly modern and clutter free so ideally something in keeping which probably suggests no external phono stage, it’s about 25 x 15 feet, the worst part it’s fairly sparsely furnished and tiled floors which is unlikely to change but may possibly look at some acoustic treatment later on.


After the turntable will be looking for an amp / speakers so any suggestions for those known to pair well appreciated, a very approximate price range is 2/3k for an amp and £3/4k for speakers but I don't play vinyl so have no idea what price range a turntable that correlates would be.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Personally, with that budget, my starting point for demoing would be as follows:

Clearaudio Concept or Pro-ject Classic turntable
New Exposure 2510 amp or Marantz 30
Q Acoustic Concept 50

Demoing any product around that price is essential.

 

[Amormusic]

There's a Koetsu Urushi Vermillion cartridge for sale on the Wam, which has to be near the holy grail of carts. I've heard this actual one on his Notts Analogue Spacedeck with a superb valve phonostage in front of it. It sounds truly amazing.

That's quite a bargain.

 

[Nico69]

If I was in that position and was after the best turntable for my (large) budget, then the first port of call would be to a company called Cymbiosis. The owner, Peter Swain is a very well respected turntable guru especially in Linn LP12 circles. https://www.cymbiosis.com/

I personally would get an LP12 but not neccesarily a new one. Peter would discuss your requirements and possibly build you a deck from previously owned parts where his clients have traded in to upgrade or change whatever. It would be to what your particular requirements are and what your budget allows. He also deals in all phono stages, amps, speakers etc. He has an extensive listening room and a good selection of chin straps to stop yours from hitting the floor.

If you are spending a large wad of cash then you want to get it right. So go to the right place to start.

Hope this helps.

 

[Clarkey_71]

If I was in that position and was after the best turntable for my (large) budget, then the first port of call would be to a company called Cymbiosis. The owner, Peter Swain is a very well respected turntable guru especially in Linn LP12 circles. https://www.cymbiosis.com/

I personally would get an LP12 but not neccesarily a new one. Peter would discuss your requirements and possibly build you a deck from previously owned parts where his clients have traded in to upgrade or change whatever. It would be to what your particular requirements are and what your budget allows. he also deals in all phone stages, amps, speakers etc. He has an extensive listening room and a good selection of chin straps to stop yours from hitting the floor.

If you are spending a large wad of cash then you want to get it right. So go to the right place to start.

Hope this helps.

+1 for the LP12 shout!

 

[Witterings]

A big thank you to everyone for their input ... as much as anything it's helped open my eyes as to what I need to find out about.

As I'm sure he'll want it to be fairly minimalist I'm tempted to suggest he looks at a Pro-ject turntable and an amp with built in phono stage and see how he gets on for a period of time knowing if he wanted to he can upgrade at a later stage.

If anybody know of other amps apart from the Rega with a decent phono stage I'd be interested to hear what they are but at least I feel I have a starting point / clearer direction now!

 

[twinkletoes]

If you want real honest analogue hifi id look to Sugden. Amps of all sorts to suit any wallet size, you may find the simple A21 is all they need but the a21se is simply a superb piece at around the 3-4k mark. but they have their masters series if you want to go really mad.

Speakers for me, if they can accommodate them klipsch cornwall ( They will blow your socks off), you will literally want for nothing sound-wise as long they suit your tastes if you/he can't fit them in forte 4's or even the heresy 4, heresy's are around the 4k mark with the Cornwalls around 6k mark

If money really is no object and they really want to push the boat out the la scalas are exceptional pieces that will probably end up making you money in the future (that's right a rare investment piece), they sound like no other, I couldn't fit them in that was sad day.

I would say the Tannoy legacy line but with the price hikes in recent years the simple Eaton's now sit at the 6k mark but they do sound awesome and a stunning match for Sugden.

As for turntables, if there is truly no budget the Technics 1000r would be where it's at job done for a lifetime (again a rare investment piece), but let's bring it down to earth a little and say the 1200g with a cart of your choice. Sudgen will do matching phono stages. I use a chord Huie for better or worst, but I like it.
I use a Nagaoka mp 150 cartridge but the 500 would be pretty special, with carts the sky is the limit and spending more here is truely "you get what you pay for".

What I like about the above items are they all handmade (minus the turntable and carts maybe ) and for me that brings extra value to the table. The speakers are things of beauty and can be had in any finish you like you just have to ask.

 

[plastic penguin]

There's a Koetsu Urushi Vermillion cartridge for sale on the Wam, which has to be near the holy grail of carts. I've heard this actual one on his Notts Analogue Spacedeck with a superb valve phonostage in front of it. It sounds truly amazing.

That's quite a bargain.

No good without a turntable. How much is a Notts Analogue Spacedeck?

If it's near the Holy Grail of cartridges, why's he selling it?

 

[WayneKerr]

If anybody know of other amps apart from the Rega with a decent phono stage I'd be interested to hear what they are but at least I feel I have a starting point / clearer direction now!

I'll chip in with Marantz, generally damned good phono-stages in them... there are others brands of course

 

[plastic penguin]

I'll chip in with Marantz, generally damned good phono-stages in them... there are others brands of course

Given the OPs friend has tiled flooring, Marantz should have the tonal richness to counter a reflective room, along with a very good built-in phono stage.

 

[hifi]

At this amount of money I am sure most dealers and brands would be more than happy too set up free home Demos ...No Brainer ! What is your friend using too play vinyl ,Who has this much passion for vinyl?

 

[Al ears]

No good without a turntable. How much is a Notts Analogue Spacedeck?

If it's near the Holy Grail of cartridges, why's he selling it?

The Spacedeck is not cheap (around £2400), presumably the Koetsu is second-hand but, as no price was quoted here, it;s difficult to say.
Anyway it's way above and beyond what your friend would need particularly when diminishing returns are taken into account

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Anyway it's way above and beyond what your friend would need particularly...

....in a sparse, reflective room.

 

[Al ears]

....in a sparse, reflective room.

that as well...

 

[plastic penguin]

The Spacedeck is not cheap (around £2400), presumably the Koetsu is second-hand but, as no price was quoted here, it;s difficult to say.
Anyway it's way above and beyond what your friend would need particularly when diminishing returns are taken into account

I looked up the retail price of the cart. It is 5k (all by the shouting). That's in a very different league. I know it's used but you never know how long the person has had it or how it's been treated.

Koetsu Urushi Vermillion Moving Coil Cartridge

Koetsu Urushi Vermillion Moving Coil Cartridge The name Koetsu has long been held in high regard by audiophiles. Almost mystical attributes have been associated with the name. The Red was one of the early examples of a high-performance audio device that had some obvious shortcomings, but...

www.analogueseduction.net

Anyhoo, the OPs friend needs to source a table first that'll suit his needs.