trying to attain the best possible equipment for trance/progressive and house music

[clinton333]

I'm wondering if it is my choice in music that is leaving me feeling unsatisfied with my setup... regarding music playback.

I@m using the Pure i20 as a transport (Iphone) and letting the Rotel RSP1570 handle the digital to analogue conversion, but i feel it isn't quite how it should be in my mind.... My listening room is about 6mtres square with wooden floor and two exposed brickwork walls, which I believe doesn't serve me well, but looks quite nice.

I am considering a move towards an Arcam processor to see if I can acheive a "sweeter" sound as far as music is concerned...

any suggestions or comments would be much appreciated

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Clinton333

You have a very capable system there for AV...but, as you have mentioned, not so geared towards two channel. My thoughts would be as follows:

- You need a much better source...mabe a streamer from the likes of Olive, Naim or Linn

- The only Arcam stand alone processor is the AV888 @ £4500....which is truely outstanding, works best with P777 and is still a little "buggy".

- You could get the AVR400 and use the pre-outs to the Rotel 1575...but it's possible that you may prefer the sound of this receiver on its own.

- Sell the Rotels and get the AVR600 - utterly brilliant for both (I'm biased as I own one), but still a little buggy)

- Use the pre-outs from the Rotel into a new Stereo amp, for left and right. Your source is then plugged into this...the Rotels are turned off for stereo, and the stereo amp provides left and right for AV).
This option allows gives great flexibility for 2 channel...what's your budget?

-With wooden floors, speakers/sub need isolated from it. Use Auralex Gramma for sub and Granite (Argos/Tesco worktop savers) for speakers.

-Look to room acoustics...rugs, bookshelves, tapistries/drapes etc on brick walls and soft furnishings.

- Speaker positioning (distance from walls, toe-in etc.)

- Mains cables from the likes of Clearer Audio, especially on the amps. This is contraversial on here, but in my case it gave a clearer, more detailed and less grainy sound. The likes of CA allow a good trial period, so you can see for yourself.

Sorry for the long reply, but at the level you're at, mistakes can be very expensive.

 

[Anonymous]

What format are you ripping your music in, is it compressed in any way?

 

[clinton333]

No worries with the long reply, you've covered all the things I'm learning more about as I go along.

I had thought about getting the audiolab 8200cd to utilise its higher quality DAC's, than in my Rotel; and having the option to use the cd player for critical listening... As I understand it , I'd have to get stereo amp with a home cinema/processor bypass to use the same front speakers for both setups... please advise if I'm wrong...

I would prefer not to spend £4500 on the av888, especially whilst the bugs are still apparent; the Rotel RMB 1575 I have is a class D amp with loads of power offering great headroom and although not traditonally best suited to stereo it would be a shame to see it go as I feel it makes home cinema sound so effortless; especially compared to my old Marantz one box system;

do you think that with my choice in music (also Jazz/Electronic/RnB when the other half is around) the AVR 600 would be a good choice? that way I could keep the power amp ,especially at first and use the pre outs... Am i right in thinking i could drive the fronts with the Arcam to give a different sound in stereo and make a seven channel system...

The AVR600 would be the limit on my budget for a replacemnt really or similar if i were to have two separate systems for both hifi and home cinema...

I will have a look at the products you mentioned for "room eq"... I also bought an spl meter and DVessentials blu ray so will have a go with that also...

And i'll check out some of the mains you suggest... thanks for the advice so far... would have been easier I feel if my dealer had been a little more helpful,not just here you go and come back when your ready to spend some more!

 

[clinton333]

I use apple lossless... don't get me wrong it sounds ok, but somehow not how I want it to...

there are so many variables I just need a bit of steering in the right direction as far as system matching is concerned... and I realise listening is the only real way to decide but home demos on all the alternatives I'm considering are hard to come by...

thankyou for your help and advice

 

[CnoEvil]

Right...I'll do my best with your questions, but please bear in mind my taste in sound (musical/natural/class A etc), which taints my advice slightly (IMO for the better).

- If you get the right streamer, it will make a CD reduntant eg Linn Sneaky (£800) will match most £2k CD players and exceed them in 24 bit.

- A stereo amp with HT by-pass makes life easier as it turns it into a power amp...but it is not essential. You can take any integrated amp, and when using for AV, set the volume to a fixed position (say 12 o'clock), and then match the other channels to this (sound meter) - then do the EQ as normal. When using for AV, just return the volume to 12 o'clock; when using for stereo REMEMBER TO TURN VOLUME DOWN BEFORE SWITCHING OVER..this is the downside. There are lots of good amps with a bypass.

- Oxford Audio has an Arcam A38 for £1185 and Primare I30 for £1250 - I believe both have a by-pass. Musical Fidelity M3 and M6 also have. This route would keep the sound you like for AV, and allow a more musical sound for 2 channel.

- The AVR 600 should be excellent for those genres of music...especially as you can bi-amp the front L+R. I would expect it to beat the Rotel for AV and trounce it for stereo, which is why I suggested selling them.

- If you want to keep the Rotel power amp, you should consider getting the AVR400 to do the processing and use the money saved to get a good streamer.

I would be surprised if all the staff in the dealer are bad, look for the boss/most knowledgable member of staff, but if the service isn't up to scratch...vote with your feet and go elsewhere.

FWIW Your problem is two channel, so money focused there will yield most benefit ie A good source and a musical integrated amp...and with a £3.5k budget that is more than possible.

Do your own demoing of various options, and you should get a listen to both AVR600 and AVR400,
as well as different streamers (Linn Sneaky/Majik DS get my vote). Its about getting synergy with your speakers.

Keep in touch

Cno

 

[Anonymous]

I listen to a lot of the same genres and in my experience I hated my parents b and w cm1's and much prefered my much cheaper wharfedale valdus 500's. (The comparison was done on armin van buuren's asot 2008...yes i know its mainstream...) they seemed to give much more "energy" to the treble in a way I can't quite describe, wasn't simply bright. Not going to pretend the valdus tweeter is better but I preferred it. I later replaced them with some second hand £2k (retail) active studio monitors and these sound a lot better than the valdus' did. My point is maybe trial differnet speakers and don't be surprised if you sometimes prefer cheaper models. In the end its about the sound YOUR looking for.

I would not recommend b and w for trance from my experience. Heard a will holland mix on a b and w 805 and GENUINELY preferred it on a pair of monitor audio rx2's.

May seem like madness to some people but I use a £30 soundblaster as a dac. Why? Becasue I would prefer to spend the £200 I could on an entry level hifi dac on some passive radiators for my 18inch subs because it makes more difference to the listening experience than a better dac would. I'm not advocating this as good advice generally but its to illustrate a point, that the most important thing is the experience the music leaves on you, not the quality of the equipment.

 

[Craig M.]

stick a big rug on the floor if you don't already have one. all hifi will sound bad in an overly reflective room.

 

[clinton333]

Just a quick update; I have managed to demo an Arcam AVR400 and was impressed but not quite what I'm looking for regarding movies or music but only tested on MA Apex so not really fair for Hifi...

Then had a chace with Musical Fidelity M6i and M6CD with a pair of B&W CM9's, which are obviously a step up from my XT8's but I think retained the same character sonically, and was thoroughly impressed. I tried with my Ipod dock into Musical Fidelity M1 DAC also and after a/b tests found that the M6CD won me over everytime with all genres tested... which leads me to think that I need to look at a decent two channel setup...CD player,Amp (int or pre/power)

I would have preferred to go with "one box does all " like the Arcam AVR600 as suggested by cnoevil but I'm not comfortable with potential niggles.... it would be fine if I lived without others but the thought of all the questons and phone calls whilst I'm not home rules it out...

I'm getting a demo of the Audiolab 8200CD and possibly some Primare amps at home so will keep anyone interested up to date...

I have added some system pics by the way, not sure if I have done it correctly though so any suggestions would be appreciated

 

[CnoEvil]

In case it's of interest (depends where you live), Kronas AV have ex-dem M6i (£2499) for £1499 and the M6 CD (£2000) for £1350......IMO The MF M series is great kit.

EDIT: Having looked at your pics (very nice by the way), you may need a home demo to see how your room effects the sound.

Cno

 

[clinton333]

Thanks again cnoevil... I will check out the M6 gear you mentioned...

It's so true regarding home demo's... in my case it plays as critical part as any other equipment I think...

I nearly went for an AVR600 ex demo from SSAV but decided I needed to actually hear and see one before comitting...

I keep wondering if they will bring out any more additions to the FMJ range as I really liked my brother's AVR350(boxed up in his loft)...

I will try to stick with the separate AV and Hifi paths though as it just gets too complicated otherwise...

 

[clinton333]

I went against my last thoughts and have just set up my new Arcam AV888... and I love it!

Most of my problems before were the way I had set up the Rotel and always listened in 5ch stereo which wasn't really doing my rips justice from the dock... but after hearing this processor I was hooked... I have kept my Rotel amp for now as my credit card couldn't take anymore damage... but it sounds great, so rich and informative and lower level listening is in a different league even with my XT8's which prefer to be driven hard and LOUD!

I have dug out my old Marantz cd player also and am currently using it as a transport, but feel to get the best from the Arcam I should be using a decent cd player and feeding an analogue signal into it.... I will try and get a demo of the Audiolab 8200cd when the finances are adjusted...

thanks for the advice and btw I haven't witnessed any niggles I have read about so far and have all my gear hooked up; and the remote seems to comprehensively control most of my devices out of the box... my harmony 900 is almost wasted now...

 

[CnoEvil]

Clinton, it's good to hear back from you.

Dangerous game this hifi lark....for relieving you of your hard earned cash. IMO. The AV888 is one of the very best processors out there, and very capable with 2 channel (stereo direct). Did you by any chance hear it with the P777 (very "wallet hazzardous"). A much cheaper (but slightly less good) option is the P7, which were kicking about at low money.

I think that I mentioned it above, but I believe CD is on the decline and so something like a Linn Sneaky is more future-proof. I have heard Linn DS + AV888 + P777, and it sounds fantastic.

Delighted you are on the right track.

Cno

 

[busb]

... Primare I30 for £1250 - I believe both have a by-pass...

Rang Oxford Audio - the i30 went a few weeks back - I was distraught when I heard Primare had discontinued it - I was contemplating buying one just for the looks! Still, their new i32 does sound a bit special to my ears even if the appearance is less spectacular.

 

[CnoEvil]

... Primare I30 for £1250 - I believe both have a by-pass...

Rang Oxford Audio - the i30 went a few weeks back - I was distraught when I heard Primare had discontinued it - I was contemplating buying one just for the looks! Still, their new i32 does sound a bit special to my ears even if the appearance is less spectacular.

Sorry to hear that.

I preferred the I30, but it's a personal thing....... the only Class D that I like, is the Bel Canto stuff.

If you are in the mood for changing, you should get a listen before deciding......at the end of the day, you like what you like - discovering that isn't easy (mistakes are expensive).

Cno