To upsample or not to upsample? Any experiences?

[acalex]

Just ordered an USB isolator...hopefully I can play with it this weekend!

Now just mains needs to be sorted out to close the circle of possible side improvements. I already installed a Belkin extreme series main blocks. It is supposed to have an RFI filter...I think sound improved a little bit but maybe a conditioner would improve it more.

 

[CnoEvil]

Just ordered an USB isolator...hopefully I can play with it this weekend!

Now just mains needs to be sorted out to close the circle of possible side improvements. I already installed a Belkin extreme series main blocks. It is supposed to have an RFI filter...I think sound improved a little bit but maybe a conditioner would improve it more.

Be careful with conditioners. Cheap ones tend to make the sound worse (especially on amps). If spending a lot more, I think you probably get better results from mains regenerators or balanced mains transformers.
Controversially, I think the place to start is with mains cables...from companies that you can try and return if they don't work eg. Clearer Audio.

 

[paradiziac]

Just ordered an USB isolator...hopefully I can play with it this weekend!

Now just mains needs to be sorted out to close the circle of possible side improvements. I already installed a Belkin extreme series main blocks. It is supposed to have an RFI filter...I think sound improved a little bit but maybe a conditioner would improve it more.

- good luck with the isolator, if it doesn't improve the sound you'll know with confidence that your computer's USB is well isolated. Some are, some aren't. You don't know unless you try!

- mains, I think the guy who posted the other day has the right idea--get the electrician in to do your mains! Otherwise it's hit and miss, though as Cno suggests, try-before-you-buy mains cables are always worth a try.

 

[paradiziac]

16/44 only dac is pretty useless considering that some of the people here (most I would say) buy music on Linn records or HDTracks in Studio Master quality (24/96 or 24/192).

The majority of music is still on cd though

.

I think pro-ject have a DAC which is true 16/44.1 . http://box-designs.com/main.php?prod=dacboxsfl&cat=digital&lang=en looks like it can take the higher res stuff but I imagine it will probably downsample.
Also regarding the hi-res stuff it's hard to say how much benefit is really from the high resolution of the music when it most likely comes from a completely different/probably newer and better remaster.

There's quite a few TDA based NOS DACs, Terradak Chameleon being one of the highest specced examples with no less than 16 paralleling TDA1543 + external PS. Popular with DIY-ers. Would love to hear one, these kind of DACs are reputedly more musical but less detailed than their oversampling brothers. Too bad they're not in hifi shops for us all to go listen to.

Hi-res: one reason I started this thread is that I too am deeply skeptical about hi-res except in the case of a better/different studio master. But weirdly, hi-res did seem to sound a bit better on my system. However, once I upsampled the 16/44 files in software to 24/96, the difference in quality of FLAC v Hi-res completely vanished.

That said, overall the 24/96 files sound no better than the same 16/44 files fed by a CD transport instead of a computer. So with my setup, I just think upsampling to 24/96 somehow got around some of the limitations of computer audio and brought the computer up to the level of a CD transport of comparable cost.

 

[acalex]

Be careful with conditioners. Cheap ones tend to make the sound worse (especially on amps). If spending a lot more, I think you probably get better results from mains regenerators or balanced mains transformers. Controversially, I think the place to start is with mains cables...from companies that you can try and return if they don't work eg. Clearer Audio.

Thanks Cno, as usual! What's the difference between conditioners, mains regenerators and balanced mains transformers?

Unfortunately I can't redo my main cz I am renting...not sure the landlord would appreciate

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks Cno, as usual! What's the difference between conditioners, mains regenerators and balanced mains transformers?

Unfortunately I can't redo my main cz I am renting...not sure the landlord would appreciate

A balanced mains transformer splits the mains and joins it up again without the noise see here:
http://www.atlascables.com/1.0-kva-balanced-transformer-line-conditioner.html

The regenerators live up to their name, see here:
http://www.psaudio.com/products/power/power-plants-2/control

 

[acalex]

A balanced mains transformer splits the mains and joins it up again without the noise see here: http://www.atlascables.com/1.0-kva-balanced-transformer-line-conditioner.html The regenerators live up to their name, see here: http://www.psaudio.com/products/power/power-plants-2/control

Thanks a lot Cno, very interesting articles...quite expensive as solutions I must say...thought it will be much cheaper!

Regarding Clearer Audio, do you think an inexpensive Copper-line Alpha One power cable at 30 quid (with Shuko plug) + shipping would be a nice upgrade already over a standard power cable?

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks a lot Cno, very interesting articles...quite expensive as solutions I must say...thought it will be much cheaper!

Regarding Clearer Audio, do you think an inexpensive Copper-line Alpha One power cable at 30 quid (with Shuko plug) + shipping would be a nice upgrade already over a standard power cable?

Yes, decent mains solutions are expensive, and that includes conditioning.

Mains leads are a trickier one to answer, and the effect is situation and component dependent.

I'm a big fan, and provided they can be tried and returned if necessary, are well worth trying. The biggest gains I've achieved have been on amps, subs and sky box ( Furutech F8 ). They have had little effect on my Linn DS, but I put that down to their well sorted Dynamik power supply.

There was an improvement to the Plasma, and others on here have reported gains on CDPs.

Give Darren a ring, and you should find him knowledgeable and helpful..they are having a clearance sale at the moment: http://www.cleareraudio.com/onlinestore/Copper-line_Alpha_Clearance_Cables.html

So my advice is to get one or two of them and try. If you get an expensive amp, I would get the Copperline version for it.

Cno

 

[krazy_olie]

I think the benefits of hi res are more practical than theoretical, i.e it is easier for a real DAC to accurately produce an analogue signal from hi-res data than low res. So by upsampling you give the DAC an easier ride so to speak, although it probably won't be quite as good as a true hi-res master as upsampling won't be perfect

 

[acalex]

Yes, decent mains solutions are expensive, and that includes conditioning. Mains leads are a trickier one to answer, and the effect is situation and component dependent. I'm a big fan, and provided they can be tried and returned if necessary, are well worth trying. The biggest gains I've achieved have been on amps, subs and sky box ( Furutech F8 ). They have had little effect on my Linn DS, but I put that down to their well sorted Dynamik power supply. There was an improvement to the Plasma, and others on here have reported gains on CDPs. Give Darren a ring, and you should find him knowledgeable and helpful..they are having a clearance sale at the moment: http://www.cleareraudio.com/onlinestore/Copper-line_Alpha_Clearance_Cables.html So my advice is to get one or two of them and try. If you get an expensive amp, I would get the Copperline version for it. Cno

Again, thanks a lot! Pity their sale do not include any EU plug but UK plugs only

I will for sure get a new amp (when I do not know...have to find time to demo...hopefully I will demo mid december-beg January 2012) so it maybe be worthwile trying it. Did you get the copper line for your lovely MF AMS? Did you notice any sensible improvement on amp only?

 

[CnoEvil]

Again, thanks a lot! Pity their sale do not include any EU plug but UK plugs only

I will for sure get a new amp (when I do not know...have to find time to demo...hopefully I will demo mid december-beg January 2012) so it maybe be worthwile trying it. Did you get the copper line for your lovely MF AMS? Did you notice any sensible improvement on amp only?

I have a Cardas cable on the amp, and it made a good difference. I have "Copper Line Alpha+" on TV and Sub; Copperline on Skybox (was on sale)

IMO Power hungry devices benefit from a good cable. Less power hungry ones (CDP/DVD/BDP) are fine with a cheaper cable. The main thing is to try in your own situation, and be able to return if not convinced.

 

[Laurier]

Hello, the short answer IMHO is YES! But I can do even better to answer this!

Try different programs on your Mac like Amarra, Pure Music, Audirvana, Fidelia and others. In the order listed, I have tried all of these and find some very interesting results in terms of the sonic signature.

With the Audirvana program, there is a Mode switch (Mode 1 or 2) that allows selection of Transparency or Smoothness that really has a startling effect. The Transparency setting is a To Die For setting in my opinion for really well recorded tracks. The Pure Music allows to Upsample even Internet Radio (with Premium accounts like SKY.FM, Pandora and JAZZradio) that is a distinct improvement and sometimes 128K AAC is good enough for hours of backgroung listening to music you may not have as CDs.

I am using 2X Upsampling whenever possible and for the record, I have a Mac Mini USB connected to my NAD C390DD but also have an AES/EBU and Optical connection from my Logitech Transporter to the NAD as well as a Mark Levinson No.39 Transport to the NAD that I use for comparisons. I have 1900+ CDs (Classical, Jazz and Rock) AIFF ripped to a 2TB FireWire connected drive to the Mini. My speakers are 20 year old (mint) Aerial Acoustics 10Ts that I simply cannot live without! And by the way, cabling does have a profound influence on the sonic character as well!

I truly believe I hear a distinct improvemt using Upsampling but as I said even more with the selection of which UpSampler code (Pure Music's own filter versus the MIT created iZotope SRC which has claims of being the most Transparent) can only be demostrated to believe!

We are getting to the stage where we will be able (and now are) able to dial up the sonic signature desired for any music track equivalent to changing the entire system components for their specific sonic signature characteristics!!! Like what a Wadia, Mark Levinson and Krell for example sound like. Of course, a flat and detailed capable system and the flat room response is required to do this. I have my room response compensated for using the Room EQ capabilities of the NAD C390DD as assited by my BSR 4000Xr Real Time Analysis component. Amazing how the bass is cleaned up using this NAD filterring capability.

These are definetely FUN times with plenty of future opportunities on the Horizon.

BTW -- 2X Upsampling uses much less computation and really doesn't destroy the music in my opinion.

Have Fun and enjoy the High Tech side of being an Audiophile (Digital Rules!),

Laurier

Izotope SRC

 

[paradiziac]

Wow, back from the dead!

I eventually settled on a rare vintage DAC I loved the sound of (with the "legendary" TDA1541 S1 chip), and paired it with a 16/44 only USB converter and posh cabling. The end of my computer upsampling experiments!

It sounds great, but then so does my iPod touch with Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10 IEM's.

So I guess the answer to my original post is that there are several ways to skin a cat—"it depends".

Now back to the music...