Thoughts?: Moving from budget to mid-range (order of upgrade)

[admin_exported]

Hi all.

Any thoughts on the question below greatly appreciated!

I believe I’ve finally got my budget system just about as good as I think I can get (at this price group) for my sound preferences and room characteristics. Current set up listed in bio.

I really love my set up, but know if I can jump up to a mid-range system I will be able to get more. I don’t ever have the sort of money available for an upgrade of all components at once, so it will have to be a slow process of doing it bit by bit (and not shying away from second hand).

I’m interested to hear peoples thoughts on the order of doing this (bearing in mind it might mean mismatching for around a year or so). CD based music is at the heart of my system and I want this format to remain at the focus.

My head says, ‘new source first’

My heart says, ‘new amp first’

My fear is you may say, ‘new speakers first’

I know people often say that even a great amp and speakers can’t make a poor source great, but in general will a mid-range source make much of a difference through a budget amp? Any golden rules I’m not aware of, or is it the good old ‘depends on the characteristics of the individual set up’?

Should it help - Currently for a small room 2.5m x 4m. I have an exceptionally broad music taste. Prefer a detailed sound that doesn’t get overly bass dominant.

Cheers.

 

[plastic penguin]

What do you like about your current system? and do you want a better sounding version of your current system or a completely different sound? What is your budget per item? Your current system is made of?

Apologies for all these questions, but I think it would be advantagous to know more about your system and your expectations for the new one.

 

[crusaderlord]

As outlined by the first reply it may well depend most on what kit you are starting from. Some budget items are well known to punch high for their relative cost while others quickly show their limitations.

When i upgraded from budget to mid-range i found the amplifier and cd probably made a bigger difference then the speakers.

I found though that the sum of replacement of the 3 cd, amp, speakers seemed greater than the individual elements if that makes sense - it needed all to become rebalanced to get the best out of them.

 

[staggerlee]

You will be lucky if you are going to get a consistant reponse. My view is source first, get the best yoiu can afford and then over time you can build the rest. Sometimes it doesn't work that way as you may see some equipment an offer, ex demo etc that you can buy.

As you are looking for a Cd based system get a better Cd player and then build your system around that.

Actually my advice would be don't upgrade, as once the bug hits there is no cure.

 

[John Duncan]

Depends on what your current equipment is. All being equal I;d tend to go amp or speakers first, but some of your existing stuff might be punching above its weight already and more benefit might be had elsewhere.

 

[Anonymous]

This question is what we unwittingly addressed in our blind test in WHF's Big Question - as appeared in the Feb issue.....

I preferred things with a CD player upgrade, but think the other 2 guys mainly got more from a speaker upgrade first.

I guess a speaker upgrade can change the bass depth and scale of the presentation, which may be what some people wish to enhance if they have smaller speakers previously. To me, this would be a change of presentation, without necessarily 'improving' the whole ...

a) a better speaker will highlight any deficiency in what goes before it...

b) garbage in / garbage out - as they say - so the amp and/or speakers cannot provide anything that's missing from the original source.

As already suggested by others, this can depend on the strengths of what you already have in your system - so it is usually down to system matching as much as anything.

... that said - I still feel the improvement of your CD will add improved musicality and timing [important to me, but some may prefer the overall 'presentation' to be enhanced first] and so would be my choice....

As always - it could be a case of try for yourself and see !

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, should have been clearer - system is listed in my bio. Signature now adjusted!

I would definitely say I want a similar sound to current set up - detailed and dynamic and not dominated by boomy bass. I love my current system, but obviously like all budget systems it has
limitations, balance for one, and can get overly lean occasionally (even for
my taste). I think I can get a more complete better balanced sound that suits my preferences by moving up into midrange gear.

Budget
would be around £700-900 per component. Not discounting second hand.
The door is still very much open about specific brands and models, as I
need to do some saving first.

I suppose my question was more to
do with if there was any particular 'in principle' rules about the best
way to move up in steps. From your helpful comments so far it appears
it is the 'depends on the characteristics of the individual set up'
rather than a common rule. The reasons behind my question were:

1) Trying to avoid a horrible mismatched interim sound whilst I'm gradually switching up. Trying to optimise each stage.

2) Wanting to know if it won't be until everything is upgraded that I
will really see the benefit.

crusaderlord:

I found though that the sum of replacement of the 3 cd, amp, speakers
seemed greater than the individual elements if that makes sens

Yes that makes sense, each
one adds something but it's not until they are matched up that the
total 'team work' of all three is much greater value than the sum of
each individual effort added. Does that mean you heard hardly any
benefit during the interim stages - so I may be waiting some time until
I reap the rewards of my hard earned cash?

staggerlee:

You will be lucky if you are going to get a consistant reponse.

Yeah I'm kind'a expecting that. Ultimately it will be down to auditioning where I can, once I have put aside enough for the first shiny metal (or wooden) box. But it's nice to get some pointers and have an image in my mind of what I'm saving for.

Cheers BigAir, interesting stuff. I think I gave my Feb issue to my brother, so that'll be coming back when I see him this weekend - the swine!

Again, many thanks for you comments.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmm... my attempt at adding pictures just seems to have screwed up my text!

How about now...

Abra Kadabra, Alakazam

 

[John Duncan]

Hang on, will edit...ooo, witchcraft.

Anyway - the least good bit of your setup is the amp, and I'd replace that first

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:Hang on, will edit...ooo, witchcraft.

Anyway - the least good bit of your setup is the amp, and I'd replace that first

Well I never was one for magic. 'I'll break my staff, bury it certain fathoms in the earth, and deeper than did ever plummet sound I'll drown my book.'

Cheers John. Much appreciated. Any ideas what I was doing wrong? I use Firefox if that's anything to do with it?

 

[Anonymous]

Are you utilising your dac magic to play wav music (lossless) also? if not then you might even find that is a notable upgrade.

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds a bit backwards, but I'd start with the speakers. Conventional wisdom has it that you should buy your speakers last in order to match them to you separates. HOWEVER you won't hear much improvement from your upgrades if your speakers are strangling the end result, and you'll be put off pouring more £££ into the black hole that hi-fi can become.

Decide whether you want floorstanders or stand-mounters then buy the best you can afford. Audition a few pairs coupled, quite possibly, to sources slightly beyond your price range. Then try and find a pair on EBay or "ex demo" and save some cash. I bought my ProAc Studio 140s as "ex demo" from a reputable dealer chain last Xmas and saved over £400 in the process. The dealer essentially ran the speakers in for me, and the only compromise I had to make was taking black ash finish instead of a more "real wood" finish I (or maybe the wife) would have preferred. The other advantage of buying used or ex-demo is that you can probably punt the speakers on if you decide they don't really suit the separates you end up with.

If your stated budget is, as I think you posted, in the £700-900 per box range, and you're not looking for bass-heavy delivery, I would look at Cyrus sources and amps, but avoid Tannoy speakers (which can sound shrill with bright sources, apparently) and Mordaunt-Short, which, from experience with my old Mezzo 6's and Cyrus kit, can sound a bit thin, especially at sensible volume levels.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm in agreement with Darren - speakers first. My main reason for saying that is they generally impart the strongest sonic characteristics upon a system, and so if you get somewhere near the sound you like by demoing speakers, you can then finetune the sound through the components you add to them. Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Seeing what you have now i would say amp, speaker and then source much later but thats my opinion. You could also go speakers, amp and then source but i tend to see amps as the engine of a system and then use speakers to tweak the sound to the way I like it.

 

[chebby]

I have learnt from the last couple of system changes that changing speakers makes the most difference of all.

I have also observed this in a friend's system, where changing from large Focal floorstanders to ATM SCM11s brought about the biggest improvement of any change he has made for years.

This all goes against everything I had believed previously from the 'received wisdom' of source-->amp-->speakers being the 'correct' order of precedence/importance.

I even managed to find a speaker (during a Spendor S3/5R demo) that made a Nait 5i/CD5i combination sound soft, warm and flabby (!) despite being a similar price/size/type of speakers as my N-Sats.

Rega RS1s at half the price sounded better than the Spendors so I am not necessarily saying the importance of speakers is always down to cost. My friend's SCM11s were about the same price as the big Focals they replaced but are profoundly better.

Once you have found the right voice for your system in your room, changing the amp and source are refinements.