The WHF Film Club

[strapped for cash]

Has everyone got a copy of 13 Tzameti?

I have a copy; though I haven't watched it yet.

As film club boss, what do you think of the preamble suggestion above?

 

[strapped for cash]

It's called Breathless, not Sh*tless.

Though there's sometimes a relationship between the two.

 

[expat_mike]

Perhaps members aren't interested in film history.

I don't know if that is the case. It is difficult to cover all the tens of thousands of films in film history, within a club that focuses on one selected film per month. I shall watch Un Chien Andalou on YouTube as well, and I think some of the other members (probably not BBB) will as well. So we will probably discuss this film within the club anyway.

As for 8 1/2, I can get a copy via Amazon.fr, but it is 20 euros and french subtitles, so from a practical point of view, it is the hardest film to watch and understand.

That leaves Mulholland Drive, which I have been curious to watch, given the number of times that it gets mentioned within the club, so I am happy to watch it next month.

I'd be contravening film club rules, but in this case I think some preamble would be useful. What do others think? (I'd wait until we've watched Tzameti.)

Possibly a good idea - I have already bookmarked a few webpages in case I need help, but you are our expert on this film.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Has everyone got a copy of 13 Tzameti?

I have a copy; though I haven't watched it yet.

As film club boss, what do you think of the preamble suggestion above?

Not sure about the boss description Strapped.

Do you think a preamble would help with Mulholland Drive.

Personally speaking, I'd like to keep it as it is at the moment, then maybe look at changing a few things after all 6 members have chosen a film.

 

[expat_mike]

Has everyone got a copy of 13 Tzameti?

Yes, but I have only watched 20 minutes of it so far.

 

[strapped for cash]

Not sure about the boss description Strapped.

Sorry, that does make you sound rather authoritarian. (You're not.)

Do you think a preamble would help with Mulholland Drive.

I really do. It isn't possible to understand the film following a single viewing. I think a few pointers (rather than spoilers) would be useful for anyone unfamiliar with the film, and for others who have seen it and felt perplexed or frustrated.

I'm not giving anything away by stating that I think Mulholland Drive is an extraordinary film; though it repays careful and repeated attention.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I really do. It isn't possible to understand the film following a single viewing. I think a few pointers (rather than spoilers) would be useful for anyone unfamiliar with the film, and for others who have seen it and felt perplexed or frustrated.

I'm not giving anything away by stating that I think Mulholland Drive is an extraordinary film; though it repays careful and repeated attention.

Well, I do suffer occasionally from mild stupidness, so if everyone's in agreement, we'll take a little preamble down Mulholland Drive once we've all seen and discussed 13 Tzameti.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Do you mean the Belmondo film? Saw it in a film club in Northern Vic - stunning film.

Had had a couple of beers, though.

 

[BenLaw]

8 1/2 (1 point) (sorry but hated this when I watched it)

Perche?

I found it egotistical and arrogant, probably narcissistic, as a result of which (mostly) I found it aggravating. It seemed to think it / the director was important and that its message was profound, whereas I found it's message to be narrow and not widely applicable. I'd have loved to have watched it a few times, and I'm sure there'd have been more in it if I had but I just couldn't bring myself to. I have several other Fellini films on my list to watch and hope I will enjoy those more.

 

[BenLaw]

Do you mean the Belmondo film? Saw it in a film club in Northern Vic - stunning film.

Had had a couple of beers, though.

The one with the Korean chap on the DVD cover? I don't think so. There was a discussion about the one you're thinking of a few pages back.

 

[BenLaw]

I really do. It isn't possible to understand the film following a single viewing. I think a few pointers (rather than spoilers) would be useful for anyone unfamiliar with the film, and for others who have seen it and felt perplexed or frustrated.

I'm not giving anything away by stating that I think Mulholland Drive is an extraordinary film; though it repays careful and repeated attention.

Well, I do suffer occasionally from mild stupidness, so if everyone's in agreement, we'll take a little preamble down Mulholland Drive once we've all seen and discussed 13 Tzameti.

I agree some preamble would be helpful. I think it's a good idea more generally at least for nominations to have a short bit about them. I prefer not to pick off imdb or amazon as the ratings are not reliable and the summaries risk spoilers.

I don't have a copy of Tzameti yet but it's ready to promote to the top of my lovefilm list any time it looks like everyone's about there with it. Seems we're pretty close to that?

 

[expat_mike]

I don't have a copy of Tzameti yet but it's ready to promote to the top of my lovefilm list any time it looks like everyone's about there with it. Seems we're pretty close to that?

There is also this option:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkxwNv-0JGM

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Yes I do have a copy of 13 Tzameti. Only watched 10 min or so...

will try to watch this week.

 

[strapped for cash]

I found it egotistical and arrogant, probably narcissistic, as a result of which (mostly) I found it aggravating.

Self indulgent, perhaps; though I'd argue that 8 1/2 is Fellini's message-to-self to grow up.* In this sense the film is far from narcissistic.

The film is also fantastic commentary on creative process and crippling self-doubt.

* This statement sidesteps questions of film authorship; though in this case one might reasonably argue for Fellini's primary authorship.

 

[strapped for cash]

I do suffer occasionally from mild stupidness, so if everyone's in agreement, we'll take a little preamble down Mulholland Drive once we've all seen and discussed 13 Tzameti.

I was genuinely perplexed upon first watching Mulholland Drive. (It's probably more middlebrow than highbrow, though it takes some work.)

I didn't mean to suggest that other film club members might not be smart enough to understand the film. Rather, I think it's impossible to fit the pieces together on a single viewing.

 

[BenLaw]

I found it egotistical and arrogant, probably narcissistic, as a result of which (mostly) I found it aggravating.

Self indulgent, perhaps; though I'd argue that 8 1/2 is Fellini's message-to-self to grow up.* In this sense the film is far from narcissistic.

The film is also fantastic commentary on creative process and crippling self-doubt.

* This statement sidesteps questions of film authorship; though in this case one might reasonably argue for Fellini's primary authorship.

You're right about the self doubt, and therefore narcissistic isn't the word word, certainly not for all the film. I still felt that self doubt was very specific to the (all important) auteur. If the film wasn't soley about Fellini's own self doubt, self importance, creative troubles, mid life crisis then it all seemed applicable only to people in a very similar position. It certainly didn't seems terribly applicable to me - which may be unimportant but does risk failing to engage me.

 

[strapped for cash]

If the film wasn't soley about Fellini's own self doubt, self importance, creative troubles, mid life crisis then it all seemed applicable only to people in a very similar position. It certainly didn't seem terribly applicable to me - which may be unimportant but does risk failing to engage me.

Though the film is also about the juvenile nature of patriarchal fantasy. (The personal can also be political.)

As for authorial process, I'm not a film director, or arguably an artist in any sense of the word, though I've certainly experienced creative doubt as a writer.

I guess none of that means you have to like the film.

 

[BenLaw]

If the film wasn't soley about Fellini's own self doubt, self importance, creative troubles, mid life crisis then it all seemed applicable only to people in a very similar position. It certainly didn't seem terribly applicable to me - which may be unimportant but does risk failing to engage me.

Though the film is also about the juvenile nature of patriarchal fantasy. (The personal can also be political.)

Which unfortunately I found to be juvenile!

As for authorial process, I'm not a film director, or arguably an artist in any sense of the word, though I've certainly experienced creative doubt as a writer.

I don't think I'm very creative, maybe that was the reason I was devoid of empathy.

I guess none of that means you have to like the film.

I'm well aware I'm in a pretty small minority, so I'm working on the basis it's my defect. Maybe I'll like it if I watch it again in a few years; if not there's plenty of other films out there.

 

[strapped for cash]

Which unfortunately I found to be juvenile!

Though that's kind of the point.

If we accept that Guido is a cipher for Fellini himself, the film operates as frank self-criticism. This self-criticism also works as broader commentary on patriarchal society.

Rather than juvenile, I'd argue that Fellini's unflinching self-reflection and preparedness to expose his (shameful) inner self shows artistic maturity.

Fellini doesn't seek to absolve himself, or to deny the more troubling aspects of his psyche. As a confessional piece, I think it's brave. Not all artists are willing to reveal deeply uncomfortable personal truths.

 

[strapped for cash]

I don't think I'm very creative, maybe that was the reason I was devoid of empathy.

I didn't mean to imply this. Why don't you think you're very creative?

 

[strapped for cash]

there's plenty of other films out there.

I'm hoping you'll enjoy Mulholland Drive more. (Enjoy is probably the wrong word, since it's quite a downer.)

 

[BenLaw]

I don't think I'm very creative, maybe that was the reason I was devoid of empathy.

I didn't mean to imply this. Why don't you think you're very creative?

Some mid-morning edits I see! You didn't imply it, I was just musing. Do you mean, 'what about me causes me not to be creative?', or 'on what basis do I draw the conclusion that I'm not creative?' I don't think I have a good answer for either....

 

[BenLaw]

there's plenty of other films out there.

I'm hoping you'll enjoy Mulholland Drive more. (Enjoy is probably the wrong word, since it's quite a downer.)

I own it and have seen it, and remember enjoying it (even if it's not the right word) a lot - so I'm looking forward to seeing it again a little older, wiser and with more info.

 

[BenLaw]

Which unfortunately I found to be juvenile!

Though that's kind of the point.

If we accept that Guido is a cipher for Fellini himself, the film operates as frank self-criticism. This self-criticism also works as broader commentary on patriarchal society.

Rather than juvenile, I'd argue that Fellini's unflinching self-reflection and preparedness to expose his (shameful) inner self shows artistic maturity.

Fellini doesn't seek to absolve himself, or to deny the more troubling aspects of his psyche. As a confessional piece, I think it's brave. Not all artists are willing to reveal deeply uncomfortable personal truths.

All true. I readily accept that there is a great deal more artistic merit in the self-reflective juvenileness (bad word, sorry) of 8 1/2 than that in, say, The Hangover. Nonetheless, it's a realisation / life lesson that if the viewer hasn't gone through I imagine they won't recognise or 'get', whereas if they have gone through it, like me, they may find the images of someone else going through it, writ large, rather tiresome. It's also not wholly self-critical, or at least not portrayed as entirely negative, in that he's still SO damn attractive to so many damn attractive women. I don't have much interest in that kind of person. As I say, I'm willing to accept this is my flaw rather than that of the film, as it is widely acclaimed.

 

[strapped for cash]

Some mid-morning edits I see!

Minor edits. Most for clarity. (One with diplomacy in mind.)

You didn't imply it, I was just musing. Do you mean, 'what about me causes me not to be creative?', or 'on what basis do I draw the conclusion that I'm not creative?' I don't think I have a good answer for either....

I had the latter question in mind.