plastic penguin said:
Sorry for not making it clear, but I was referring specifically to Acalex's personal dread of spending a lot of money unwisely.
Sorry for not making it clear, but I was referring specifically to Acalex's personal dread of spending a lot of money unwisely.
CnoEvil said:
Cno, thanks a lot, this makes me feel much better
By the way still I haven't managed to find the AMS35i, the one that was on demo has been sold and the shop is waiting for a new one...tomorrow I am going to listen to the Jadis D50 connected to my Silver RX6 and to Platinum PL200 speakers then.
Will be an interesting afternoon. I am also thinking to go for the pre+power amp way as I had a long talk with a friend of mine in Italy. Using a valve pre-amp and a solid state class A power amp like the Plinius...how do you see this solution?
CnoEvil said:Electro said:I think I said before on another thread that the most important think when trying to choose a new component or system is to know what you want from it , this is the key to everything IMO .
I guess that I am lucky that I have always known what I wanted from a HiFi system, even from an early age. When I hear that special quality I know almost instantly it is going to do what I want , I have made some mistakes but luckily very few.
The amp that I owned before my current Electro's was a Mission 776 / 777 pre / power bought in 1981 for £ 900 I got myself into debt to buy them with a loan I could only just afford but I knew as soon as I heard them that they were the best to be had at that time by a large margin and they gave me 20 years of pleasure, in fact I still have them in the loft !
Just because I have what I want now it does not mean that I do not have an eye , or should be ear out for something better, I still go to HiFi shows and I am a member of several forums , I still read everything I see about music and HiFi and if anything looks interesting I will give it a listen .
The only thing I regret is not being able to hear other peoples systems because I am the only person I know who is interested in music & HiFi , most of my friends think I am nuts !
Growing up with a musical background and/or having parents that had a good system, all help to fuel the passion, and know what "live" unmiked instruments and voices should sound like.
That's for sure. This is what I lack...but I am trying to catch up soon. Going to listen to the Carmina Burana in a week...looking forward to it!!!
I had an all-Linn system from 1993-2007 then thought I'd replace it with a one-box system (NaimUniti). However, at the latest count I now have five black boxes so the plan has gone horribly wrong...
acalex said:
....says a lot!
Edit. Sorry I've just spotted your question.
There is nothing wrong with the advice, but (imo) you need to hear just how good the Inpol and the 35i sound, before making the decision....I would be surprised if you needed more....but you never know (MF PRIMO + AMS 35P). >)
I moved house and thought I'd cut down the hi-fi real estate. However, buying the Uniti reignited an old passion that had lain dormant for many years. All I need now is an external power supply for my DAC and my system will be complete (maybe! . Also feeling a strange longing for vinyl...
. Also feeling a strange longing for vinyl...CnoEvil said:acalex said:
....says a lot!
Ahhh, temptations...a lot of temptations :wall: :rofl:
Well, basically what this friend was saying is that basically a power amp has the task to feed current to the speakers without introducing distorsions. For this reason it should be as much neutral as possible. Is then the preamp's task to shape the sound. He's an expert of electronics...of couse his explaination was a bit more detailed but I hope I got the main point. Is this reasoning correct?
He has a stunning system made of an Angstrom research pre + 2 Plinius SA-103 driving SF Amati futura. Needless to say how beautifully this system was sounding...
Both the preamp and the power amp should be neutral/linear. I always understood the preamp to be a voltage amp and the power amp to be a current amp, but don't take my word for it as I know nothing about analogue electronics.
acalex said:
pretty much correct. but the problem is you will not find a power amp which is simple current follower for the signal from the preamp. there'll always be a input/ driver stage for the power amp which essentially works as preamp, ie. responsible voltage gain. so, in this case you'd be better off with a passive pre and a superior power amp.
there's different story with integrateds though. many of them are voltage amps followed by current amps. this is true especially for tube gear.
and also there's an issue of what "as much neutral as possible" really means. an expert in electronics would certainly find an amp like Plinius or similar brands near perfect amp. negligible THD, low noise floor, flat freq response, low output impedance, and so on... but also loads of negative feedback. but there are of course SETs aficionados who would never trade their tubes for any SS muscles.
acalex said:Ahhh, temptations...a lot of temptations :wall: :rofl:
Well, basically what this friend was saying is that basically a power amp has the task to feed current to the speakers without introducing distorsions. For this reason it should be as much neutral as possible. Is then the preamp's task to shape the sound. He's an expert of electronics...of couse his explaination was a bit more detailed but I hope I got the main point. Is this reasoning correct?
He has a stunning system made of an Angstrom research pre + 2 Plinius SA-103 driving SF Amati futura. Needless to say how beautifully this system was sounding...
Your friend's system is stunning and should sound awesome (though I'm not familiar with his Pre)....what an expensive influence he could be!
I agree that you need to minimize distortion, and Class A eliminates "crossover" distortion, which is one reason it sounds so pure.
I hate the word "neutral", as it means different things to different people, and nobody except the recording engineer knows exactly how it should sound anyway (through whatever gear he was using at the time).
IMO The quality of the preamp is crucial in how well the system will sound, and can often be the section that fecks it up.
Having it in its own box, nicely isolates its sensitive components from the power amp, and using valves, usually bring a musicality that SS often finds hard to match.
There is the downside of more boxes, more expense/cables/isolation etc.
I have a very general rule of thumb which says, that to get a really worthwhile improvement, you need to double the cost. That means to totally outclass the 35i, you would have to spend around £12k. The Primo + 35P would do so, with little change from £14k...which would get you 35i + 205/2s.
As JD pointed out in a different thread, the law of diminishing returns, kicks in big time, and since the 35i gives a taste of highend, it takes a kings ransom to completely outclass it.
it's hard to answer your opening question. it really depends how a specific person is like. some will never stop looking for anything and will not be satisfied with anything (if that makes sense ). some will be happy with a Tesco value mini hi-fi. but there are those who join hi-fi hobby in search of as good sound as they can get and when they find it they quit searching. for instance, I heard of people living out 20 - 30 years, or even more, with original Quad ESL speakers, as they, despite passing time and apparent evolution in speaker design, can't be satisfied with other speakers! the same thing with amps. since mid 90-ties there were no inventions in this field (save maybe for Cambridge Audio's XD amp which, if it is what I think it is, would be a nice break through for class B amps). and all major development in amp design dates back to 50-ties - 60-ties. for instance, McIntosh's power amp MC275 is a vintage design from the 60-ties. same as Quad's Reference tube pre/power amps. I'd even go as far to say that all mass market amps manufactured today are based on transistor solid state amps from late 70-ties.
so, if you know what you want to get there are big chances that you'll find what you're looking for if you search long enough, or you're just lucky and don't have to look too hard. so yes, IMO it is possible to get a set up and live with it for 20 years.
). some will be happy with a Tesco value mini hi-fi. but there are those who join hi-fi hobby in search of as good sound as they can get and when they find it they quit searching. for instance, I heard of people living out 20 - 30 years, or even more, with original Quad ESL speakers, as they, despite passing time and apparent evolution in speaker design, can't be satisfied with other speakers! the same thing with amps. since mid 90-ties there were no inventions in this field (save maybe for Cambridge Audio's XD amp which, if it is what I think it is, would be a nice break through for class B amps). and all major development in amp design dates back to 50-ties - 60-ties. for instance, McIntosh's power amp MC275 is a vintage design from the 60-ties. same as Quad's Reference tube pre/power amps. I'd even go as far to say that all mass market amps manufactured today are based on transistor solid state amps from late 70-ties.so, if you know what you want to get there are big chances that you'll find what you're looking for if you search long enough, or you're just lucky and don't have to look too hard. so yes, IMO it is possible to get a set up and live with it for 20 years.
oldric_naubhoff said:it's hard to answer your opening question. it really depends how a specific person is like. some will never stop looking for anything and will not be satisfied with anything (if that makes sense
so, if you know what you want to get there are big chances that you'll find what you're looking for if you search long enough, or you're just lucky and don't have to look too hard. so yes, IMO it is possible to get a set up and live with it for 20 years.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thought on this!
CnoEvil said:acalex said:Ahhh, temptations...a lot of temptations :wall: :rofl:
Well, basically what this friend was saying is that basically a power amp has the task to feed current to the speakers without introducing distorsions. For this reason it should be as much neutral as possible. Is then the preamp's task to shape the sound. He's an expert of electronics...of couse his explaination was a bit more detailed but I hope I got the main point. Is this reasoning correct?
He has a stunning system made of an Angstrom research pre + 2 Plinius SA-103 driving SF Amati futura. Needless to say how beautifully this system was sounding...
Your friend's system is stunning and should sound awesome (though I'm not familiar with his Pre)....what an expensive influence he could be! I agree that you need to minimize distortion, and Class A eliminates "crossover" distortion, which is one reason it sounds so pure. I hate the word "neutral", as it means different things to different people, and nobody except the recording engineer knows exactly how it should sound anyway (through whatever gear he was using at the time). IMO The quality of the preamp is crucial in how well the system will sound, and can often be the section that fecks it up. Having it in its own box, nicely isolates its sensitive components from the power amp, and using valves, usually bring a musicality that SS often finds hard to match. There is the downside of more boxes, more expense/cables/isolation etc. I have a very general rule of thumb which says, that to get a really worthwhile improvement, you need to double the cost. That means to totally outclass the 35i, you would have to spend around £12k. The Primo + 35P would do so, with little change from £14k...which would get you 35i + 205/2s. As JD pointed out in a different thread, the law of diminishing returns, kicks in big time, and since the 35i gives a taste of highend, it takes a kings ransom to completely outclass it.
It's an Italian company that apparently makes beautiful preamps like this
...he loves the "made in Italy"!
He also spoke with a SF engineer during a famous hi-fi show in Milan...apparently the SF are tested with Plinius/McIntosh amps
acalex said:It's an Italian company that apparently makes beautiful preamps like this
...he loves the "made in Italy"!
Nice!....be careful, be very careful, or you will have lots of hifi and no money!
CnoEvil said:acalex said:It's an Italian company that apparently makes beautiful preamps like this
...he loves the "made in Italy"!
Nice!....be careful, be very careful, or you will have lots of hifi and no money!
Indeed!
Hopefully the business I am working on will be a huge success and I will have loads of both
! It's nice to dream... :cheers: I would happily settle for jaxxwired's system and never change again (in terms of sound).But I like buying things
IMHO it's like intimate relationships. Either you put up with the limitations of what you have, or give yourself a headache chasing around for an improvement that often turns out to be just a different set of compromises.
Though sometimes, when the new compromises are more to your taste than the old ones, it's worth it.
Most of the time you start off in good faith thinking "this will be your last..." but the end result is not always predictable...
Though sometimes, when the new compromises are more to your taste than the old ones, it's worth it.
Most of the time you start off in good faith thinking "this will be your last..." but the end result is not always predictable...
More than anything, I'm really with matthewpiano on this one; you can get on a treadmill with this thing and it becomes almost all consuming. Thankfully, I can give that a miss now that the Onkyo's arrived. Never had a stereo setup that could give me as much listening pleasure as the current setup does. Is it the definitive article? To most audio or hifi purists, it's probably quite far away from it, but it is to me which is what counts.
matthewpiano
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the record spot said:More than anything, I'm really with matthewpiano on this one; you can get on a treadmill with this thing and it becomes almost all consuming. Thankfully, I can give that a miss now that the Onkyo's arrived. Never had a stereo setup that could give me as much listening pleasure as the current setup does. Is it the definitive article? To most audio or hifi purists, it's probably quite far away from it, but it is to me which is what counts.
I was only thinking this myself tonight. I've always wanted to listen to 'Slowhand' by Eric Clapton but never quite got round to buying it. Tonight I streamed it from Spotify and thoroughly enjoyed it and felt it was really what the whole hi-fi thing is about - listening to and enjoying good music.
matthewpiano
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<In response to paradiziac> ...except a hi-fi is nowhere near as important as a relationship. IMO it's when it becomes more important than (or as important as) your relationship that things have gone too far.
matthewpiano said:
... I agree there are differences...you can normally recover a good proportion of the money you blow on hi-fi :twisted:
[where's the tongue-in-cheek emoticon?]
matthewpiano said:
That's the thing that gets me about it too. I've yet to hear something on it I don't like - films/TV sounds good (or as good as the soundtrack is), music is great across the board, whereas I've fiddled around with amps, or CD players, or whatever.
The point about hifi for me was not to spend weeks and months trying to find a holy grail with different bits of kit, that got further away from it into the realms of obsession. It was to get something that made listening to music as enjoyable for me now as it was when I couldn't give two hoots what it sounded like listening to Radio Luxembourg in the late 1960s.
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