Ok been doing some testing with my Logitech Duet, and a new version of a Harmony DA9 DAC. I have the Beresford DAC also to compare. Well the duet receiver is useful as it can output 2 digital signals and an analogue signal, at the same time, so both DACs and the RCA outs are connected to my amp. The amp helps too as there isn't much of a sound when switching sources. My conclusion about the duet analogue out...poor. An initial enthusiasm has been proved wrong. It's dreadful. But then the receiver is a £100 player. Switch to the Beresford, and everything literally opens up. Smoother, rich and far more detailed sound.Like opening the curtains on a sunny morning! Then I switch to the Harmony...through balanced XLR connectors. Wow. I didn't expect this much difference, but the soundstage expands further. It sounds airy, and really quite organic. And this is FLAC files I'm playing. It's a no brainer. I shall be making a purchase next week. Shall just listen a little longer... :=)
-
When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Testing my logitech squeezebox duet with a new DAC.
- Thread starter fr0g
- Start date
I wouldn't say the Receiver analogue output is terrible. I tested it this week and found it to be okay. A little soft, but ragged on the edges - maybe like an old Arcam CDP!
When I used my (AVI) DAC the sound was better, obviously. The main improvements were in clarity and dynamics. I'd personally rate it as a lot better, but I wouldn't say the Duet was dreadful.
What's your system?
When I used my (AVI) DAC the sound was better, obviously. The main improvements were in clarity and dynamics. I'd personally rate it as a lot better, but I wouldn't say the Duet was dreadful.
What's your system?
[quote user="darrenwm1"]I wouldn't say the Receiver analogue output is terrible. I tested it this week and found it to be okay. A little soft, but ragged on the edges - maybe like an old Arcam CDP!
When I used my (AVI) DAC the sound was better, obviously. The main improvements were in clarity and dynamics. I'd personally rate it as a lot better, but I wouldn't say the Duet was dreadful.
What's your system?[/quote]
Heh. Well at the moment the duet receiver feeds a Harmony DA9 DAC, which feeds a Lyngdorf SDAI2715 amplifier through a balanced XLR connection, which in turn runs a set of Dali Ikon 6 speakers.
It's only when you do the direct comparison that you realise how average the analogue out is on the duet.
Through your ADM9's digital in, I am sure it sings though. I was tempted by them a while back, but no local dealers...(I'm in Sweden)
The duet really does benefit from an external DAC. I am sure Stanley Beresford will make quite a bit of money as the duet flys off the shelves. The TC-7510 is a perfect upgrade.]
When I used my (AVI) DAC the sound was better, obviously. The main improvements were in clarity and dynamics. I'd personally rate it as a lot better, but I wouldn't say the Duet was dreadful.
What's your system?[/quote]
Heh. Well at the moment the duet receiver feeds a Harmony DA9 DAC, which feeds a Lyngdorf SDAI2715 amplifier through a balanced XLR connection, which in turn runs a set of Dali Ikon 6 speakers.
It's only when you do the direct comparison that you realise how average the analogue out is on the duet.
Through your ADM9's digital in, I am sure it sings though. I was tempted by them a while back, but no local dealers...(I'm in Sweden)
The duet really does benefit from an external DAC. I am sure Stanley Beresford will make quite a bit of money as the duet flys off the shelves. The TC-7510 is a perfect upgrade.]
chebby
Well-known member
When I ripped my entire CD collection (only a few hundred) I had a production line going, but I'm a geek and enjoyed it.
My advice to normal people would be to simple rip your CDs as you go along. i.e. when you want to listen to a CD pop it in the computer and it can rip for a minute, then listen. Once it's on the harddrive it's immediately accessible
For vinyl it is a slightly longer process, but if you're listening to the entire album simply record it as you go again!
My advice to normal people would be to simple rip your CDs as you go along. i.e. when you want to listen to a CD pop it in the computer and it can rip for a minute, then listen. Once it's on the harddrive it's immediately accessible
For vinyl it is a slightly longer process, but if you're listening to the entire album simply record it as you go again!
[quote user="darrenwm1"]Oh I thought those Lyng's had a digi in?[/quote]
Nope this is the cheaper 'semi digital'. Its a class D amp, but uses an analogue input stage. The TDAI 2200 and Millenium have digi in. But then they are quite a bit more expensive...
Nope this is the cheaper 'semi digital'. Its a class D amp, but uses an analogue input stage. The TDAI 2200 and Millenium have digi in. But then they are quite a bit more expensive...
[quote user="chebby"]A little of topic but assuming you all have hundreds (or thousands) of CDs/LPs then how on earth do you get enough time to download them all to your music library without sacrificing major chunks of your life in doing so?
I have thought of doing this (Apple itunes in lossless on my iMac then via my Extreme base station to some Logitech or similar gizmo) but even being selective I just cannot contemplate the workload involved. Music is a leisure thing to me. I either relax to it or have it as background whilst working. I don't want to make it into a 'work' like activity.
I don't totally lack the 'protestant' work ethic with my leisure time. My primary hobby is photography (digital and film) and as you imagine that involves a lot of time, travel and 'work' both in the field and at home. HiFi to me is something that should be bought then enjoyed. Downloading the contents of hundreds of CDs sounds incredibly wasteful in time. (Or did you employ someone to do it for you?)
p.s. I borrowed the entire collection of 3 boxed sets of Simon Schama's A History of Britain on CD from our library (the unedited versions not the condensed ones you get in the bookshops) and the whole collection of the BBC 20th Century Eyewitness series of CDs and loaded them all onto my iTunes so I could have them all on my iPod. This is how I know how much time would be involved. Those boxsets took a long time (especially the labelling/indexing/descriptions etc and were very tedious to download even in AAC at spoken word quality level. It was worth doing to save myself hundreds of quid in not having to buy them but copying stuff I already own does not save any money at all.[/quote]
I ripped about 50 to start with. Since then I do it as I browse. The actual time I need to spend on each CD is less than 20 seconds. EAC does all the naming and tagging. Then everynow and then I simply move the newly created folders to my NAS. Simple. It helps that a big chunk of my music listening is done on headphones, on the laptop.
I have thought of doing this (Apple itunes in lossless on my iMac then via my Extreme base station to some Logitech or similar gizmo) but even being selective I just cannot contemplate the workload involved. Music is a leisure thing to me. I either relax to it or have it as background whilst working. I don't want to make it into a 'work' like activity.
I don't totally lack the 'protestant' work ethic with my leisure time. My primary hobby is photography (digital and film) and as you imagine that involves a lot of time, travel and 'work' both in the field and at home. HiFi to me is something that should be bought then enjoyed. Downloading the contents of hundreds of CDs sounds incredibly wasteful in time. (Or did you employ someone to do it for you?)
p.s. I borrowed the entire collection of 3 boxed sets of Simon Schama's A History of Britain on CD from our library (the unedited versions not the condensed ones you get in the bookshops) and the whole collection of the BBC 20th Century Eyewitness series of CDs and loaded them all onto my iTunes so I could have them all on my iPod. This is how I know how much time would be involved. Those boxsets took a long time (especially the labelling/indexing/descriptions etc and were very tedious to download even in AAC at spoken word quality level. It was worth doing to save myself hundreds of quid in not having to buy them but copying stuff I already own does not save any money at all.[/quote]
I ripped about 50 to start with. Since then I do it as I browse. The actual time I need to spend on each CD is less than 20 seconds. EAC does all the naming and tagging. Then everynow and then I simply move the newly created folders to my NAS. Simple. It helps that a big chunk of my music listening is done on headphones, on the laptop.
Well. I am amazed. More testing tonight. And I was listening to Air - Premiers Symtomes on 175 Kbps VBR MP3!!! and it has never sounded so good. I must go and rip the CD to FLAC!
I love this DAC so m£ch!
Cant wait to own it now, and it has shifted my opinion on digital sources a little. Its so good. Well done Harmony!
I love this DAC so m£ch!
Cant wait to own it now, and it has shifted my opinion on digital sources a little. Its so good. Well done Harmony!
I agree. Some MP3s sound fine when fed to a DAC. Against the perfect file they'll fall down, but sometimes they can be great!!
[quote user="fr0g"]The actual time I need to spend on each CD is less than 20 seconds. EAC does all the naming and tagging.[/quote]
I did most of my collection that way. I have however been told that the way red book CD's are read are different to data CD roms in that the data discs have full error correction/detection contained as coding in the sector headers. This allows the PC/reader to detect a badly read sector and re read it. Makes sense if the data is a program
Music CD don't have this level of error correction. As a result they can hold more music data.(746M as opposed to 650M in data CDs).
Music CDs are about "error concealment" and statistically guessing what error correction is necessary.
As a result of this, high speed ripping may not be a good idea as the chances of miss reading bytes are greatly increased. So it doesn't matter how good your HD (or solid-state memory) is if it has these original read errors embedded
To reduce this, I was recommended to do real time rips. I now have 500+ hours work awaiting me !!!
I did most of my collection that way. I have however been told that the way red book CD's are read are different to data CD roms in that the data discs have full error correction/detection contained as coding in the sector headers. This allows the PC/reader to detect a badly read sector and re read it. Makes sense if the data is a program
Music CD don't have this level of error correction. As a result they can hold more music data.(746M as opposed to 650M in data CDs).
Music CDs are about "error concealment" and statistically guessing what error correction is necessary.
As a result of this, high speed ripping may not be a good idea as the chances of miss reading bytes are greatly increased. So it doesn't matter how good your HD (or solid-state memory) is if it has these original read errors embedded
To reduce this, I was recommended to do real time rips. I now have 500+ hours work awaiting me !!!
[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="fr0g"]The actual time I need to spend on each CD is less than 20 seconds. EAC does all the naming and tagging.[/quote]
I did most of my collection that way. I have however been told that the way red book CD's are read are different to data CD roms in that the data discs have full error correction/detection contained as coding in the sector headers. This allows the PC/reader to detect a badly read sector and re read it. Makes sense if the data is a program
Music CD don't have this level of error correction. As a result they can hold more music data.(746M as opposed to 650M in data CDs).
Music CDs are about "error concealment" and statistically guessing what error correction is necessary.
As a result of this, high speed ripping may not be a good idea as the chances of miss reading bytes are greatly increased. So it doesn't matter how good your HD (or solid-state memory) is if it has these original read errors embedded
To reduce this, I was recommended to do real time rips. I now have 500+ hours work awaiting me !!!
[/quote]
Irrelevant if you use EAC in secure mode with Accuraterip. Let it rip as fast as it wants... The result is a bit-perfect copy. (It does take quite a bit longer than a crappy WMP rip, or even an iTunes with error correcttion rip...)
I did most of my collection that way. I have however been told that the way red book CD's are read are different to data CD roms in that the data discs have full error correction/detection contained as coding in the sector headers. This allows the PC/reader to detect a badly read sector and re read it. Makes sense if the data is a program
Music CD don't have this level of error correction. As a result they can hold more music data.(746M as opposed to 650M in data CDs).
Music CDs are about "error concealment" and statistically guessing what error correction is necessary.
As a result of this, high speed ripping may not be a good idea as the chances of miss reading bytes are greatly increased. So it doesn't matter how good your HD (or solid-state memory) is if it has these original read errors embedded
To reduce this, I was recommended to do real time rips. I now have 500+ hours work awaiting me !!!
[/quote]
Irrelevant if you use EAC in secure mode with Accuraterip. Let it rip as fast as it wants... The result is a bit-perfect copy. (It does take quite a bit longer than a crappy WMP rip, or even an iTunes with error correcttion rip...)
A lot of my itune stuff is badly ripped into lossless or 320. Lots of clicks and crackles. What is EAC??? How can I get my cd's onto my ipod without the errors?? Should I be using something other than itunes?
[quote user="fr0g"]Irrelevant if you use EAC in secure mode with Accuraterip. Let it rip as fast as it wants... The result is a bit-perfect copy. (It does take quite a bit longer than a crappy WMP rip, or even an iTunes with error correcttion rip...)[/quote]
Its what I use when ripping. I also include a test read which then compares the results from the two reads to ensure that the error correction works ok but the process takes a little more that 20 secs (usually a couple of minutes or so) ... how do you get it down to 20 secs? What drive are you using?
Its what I use when ripping. I also include a test read which then compares the results from the two reads to ensure that the error correction works ok but the process takes a little more that 20 secs (usually a couple of minutes or so) ... how do you get it down to 20 secs? What drive are you using?
[quote user="Grimaldi"][quote user="fr0g"]Irrelevant if you use EAC in secure mode with Accuraterip. Let it rip as fast as it wants... The result is a bit-perfect copy. (It does take quite a bit longer than a crappy WMP rip, or even an iTunes with error correcttion rip...)[/quote]
Its what I use when ripping. I also include a test read which then compares the results from the two reads to ensure that the error correction works ok but the process takes a little more that 20 secs (usually a couple of minutes or so) ... how do you get it down to 20 secs? What drive are you using?[/quote]
Ahh.. You misunderstand. I meant 'my physical input' takes no more than 20 seconds (ie It isnt exactly hard work). The computer works for quite a few minutes on each CD, But I continue to browse, and listen to other music on my headphones often
Its what I use when ripping. I also include a test read which then compares the results from the two reads to ensure that the error correction works ok but the process takes a little more that 20 secs (usually a couple of minutes or so) ... how do you get it down to 20 secs? What drive are you using?[/quote]
Ahh.. You misunderstand. I meant 'my physical input' takes no more than 20 seconds (ie It isnt exactly hard work). The computer works for quite a few minutes on each CD
, But I continue to browse, and listen to other music on my headphones often[quote user="fr0g"]Irrelevant if you use EAC in secure mode with Accuraterip. Let it rip as fast as it wants... The result is a bit-perfect copy. (It does take quite a bit longer than a crappy WMP rip, or even an iTunes with error correcttion rip...)[/quote]
How does the accuraterip work ?
How does the accuraterip work ?
[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="fr0g"]Irrelevant if you use EAC in secure mode with Accuraterip. Let it rip as fast as it wants... The result is a bit-perfect copy. (It does take quite a bit longer than a crappy WMP rip, or even an iTunes with error correcttion rip...)[/quote]
How does the accuraterip work ?
[/quote]
EAC is pretty secure without accuraterip, as it in secure mode it reads each sector of the CD 2 or more times cross checking the results..When an error occurs, it rereads over and over until it gets a certain percentage of reads identical
look it up on Hydrogen Audio for more detail.
. But with AccurateRip, it essentially tests the rip you just did, with other peoples rip of the same track... Its explained on the website http://www.accuraterip.com/
How does the accuraterip work ?
[/quote]
EAC is pretty secure without accuraterip, as it in secure mode it reads each sector of the CD 2 or more times cross checking the results..When an error occurs, it rereads over and over until it gets a certain percentage of reads identical
look it up on Hydrogen Audio for more detail.
. But with AccurateRip, it essentially tests the rip you just did, with other peoples rip of the same track... Its explained on the website http://www.accuraterip.com/
[quote user="fr0g"][quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="fr0g"]Irrelevant if you use EAC in secure mode with Accuraterip. Let it rip as fast as it wants... The result is a bit-perfect copy. (It does take quite a bit longer than a crappy WMP rip, or even an iTunes with error correcttion rip...)[/quote]
How does the accuraterip work ?
[/quote]
EAC is pretty secure without accuraterip, as it in secure mode it reads each sector of the CD 2 or more times cross checking the results..When an error occurs, it rereads over and over until it gets a certain percentage of reads identical
look it up on Hydrogen Audio for more detail.
. But with AccurateRip, it essentially tests the rip you just did, with other peoples rip of the same track... Its explained on the website http://www.accuraterip.com/
[/quote]
I like what I am hearing (reading). I have been using dBpowerAMP Music Converter. I will EAC a go. Cheers!
How does the accuraterip work ?
[/quote]
EAC is pretty secure without accuraterip, as it in secure mode it reads each sector of the CD 2 or more times cross checking the results..When an error occurs, it rereads over and over until it gets a certain percentage of reads identical
look it up on Hydrogen Audio for more detail.
. But with AccurateRip, it essentially tests the rip you just did, with other peoples rip of the same track... Its explained on the website http://www.accuraterip.com/
[/quote]
I like what I am hearing (reading). I have been using dBpowerAMP Music Converter. I will EAC a go. Cheers!
[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="fr0g"][quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="fr0g"]Irrelevant if you use EAC in secure mode with Accuraterip. Let it rip as fast as it wants... The result is a bit-perfect copy. (It does take quite a bit longer than a crappy WMP rip, or even an iTunes with error correcttion rip...)[/quote]
How does the accuraterip work ?
[/quote]
EAC is pretty secure without accuraterip, as it in secure mode it reads each sector of the CD 2 or more times cross checking the results..When an error occurs, it rereads over and over until it gets a certain percentage of reads identical
look it up on Hydrogen Audio for more detail.
. But with AccurateRip, it essentially tests the rip you just did, with other peoples rip of the same track... Its explained on the website http://www.accuraterip.com/
[/quote]
I like what I am hearing (reading). I have been using dBpowerAMP Music Converter. I will EAC a go. Cheers!
[/quote]
To be fair, a quick check tells me the one you mentioned uses Accuraterip too and its got some good comments on HydrogenAudio (might be worth a look see)... But other than that I have no knowledge of it
If you do decide to try EAC, take a look at this guide...http://www.lunetta.net/lossless/#eac-config
How does the accuraterip work ?
[/quote]
EAC is pretty secure without accuraterip, as it in secure mode it reads each sector of the CD 2 or more times cross checking the results..When an error occurs, it rereads over and over until it gets a certain percentage of reads identical
look it up on Hydrogen Audio for more detail.
. But with AccurateRip, it essentially tests the rip you just did, with other peoples rip of the same track... Its explained on the website http://www.accuraterip.com/
[/quote]
I like what I am hearing (reading). I have been using dBpowerAMP Music Converter. I will EAC a go. Cheers!
[/quote]
To be fair, a quick check tells me the one you mentioned uses Accuraterip too and its got some good comments on HydrogenAudio (might be worth a look see)... But other than that I have no knowledge of it
If you do decide to try EAC, take a look at this guide...http://www.lunetta.net/lossless/#eac-config
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