Test of Sony DA5400ES vs pricier rivals - is it worth a try?

[TKratz]

After my (turned out to be fake) Yamaha Z11 deal ran out the toilet, I am back in the more conventional physical stores looking for a receiver for my B&W XT-series.

Today I tested the Pioneer LX71 against Yamaha RX-V3900 and Z7. The shop unfortunately had no B&W speakers. The test therefore took place with KEF speakers instead.

I was frankly a little disappointed in Pioneer. Both Yamaha's performed much better in both stereo and surround in my opinion.

I was also amazed how much better the Z7 really was. With a good deal right now I have decided to bring home this amp for further testing in my own setup. I will test it against my brothers Denon 4308 for which there is also good deals around.

But now to the point. I have looked around without finding any dealers where I can test the Sony DA5400ES. But I have also slowly moved up to more pricier models and my question is, will it make any sense to test the Sony againt the Z7 and 4308 or are they simply better?

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

The 5400 is now the 6400 and we have just put it against the Z7. Between the two the Sony sounds like it doesnt have the power of the Z7 although on paper it has plenty. The sound just doesnt have the same impact as the Yamaha. That said the Sony is very good and compares with the 3900 very well indeed it is just that the Z7 is superb for the money.

If you can get a demonstration it will be worth it to hear the different presentation of each.

Nick

 

[TKratz]

Thanks for the reply!

Well, in Denmark you can purchase both the 5400 and the 6400, but the 6400 will cost you twice!!! (yes, double up and even more pricy than the Yamaha Z7) the price of the 5400. This makes it less attractive deal.

My only chance in demoing the 5400 seems to be bying it online, testing it and eventually return it if found inferior to the Yamaha or Denon. I do not like to do it this way as I doesn't find it very fair for the dealer, but one of the dealers I contacted actually more or less advised me to do just that.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi TKratz

Small world -i also live in Denmark , in the city (k›benhavn) i have had the Sony 5400ES for about a month now, driving a KEF speakers set: IQ7/IQ6/IQ1. and these togather with the sony 5400es sounds wonderfull!! before i bought the sony 5400es i have tested at home both Denon 4308 and onkyo 906, and yes the sony 5400es beat them both (Sonically) it,s that the sony 5400es got more refine sound -that make the hole soundstage more spacious -my room felt alot bigger than it,s , open and daynamic and very detailed, and at the same time it keep that touch of warmness to the sound that many of us would appreciate, and what also amazes me about the sony 5400es is how well it performed in stereo. i find that all what the experts here at what hi-fi and the eisa awards and many others reveiwers says and wroght about the sony 5400es it,s all true! it deserve that and more. i have never been a fan of Sony , so i didn,t believe much in what the experts said about the sony 5400es until the day i heard it my self...omg i was amazed by the sound quality and the effect that the sony produce! it,s nothing like u have heard before from sony, this,s by far the best AV/Receiver from sony.

You are wellcome if u live near for testing the sony over a cup of coffee at my place

 

[TKratz]

Hi Marco

Thanks a lot for your response and your warm invitation! I really appreciate that. And sorry about the late reply, I have been away for while.

I actually live in Copenhagen myself and is therefore very tempted by your offer. Unfortunately I saw this post too late and have meanwhile ordered the Sony online for testing in my home. Looking forward to the weekend!

 

[Andy Madden]

Just thought that i'd better point out that we've been told that the STR-DA5400ES hasn't been replaced by the STR--DA6400ES per se. The latter is aimed more at the custom install market and is based on a US model. We've been told by Sony that the '5400ES will run on into Q1 2010...

 

[TKratz]

That is also my experience when I search for the models. Both are available, but the DA6400ES is incredible expensive where I am living. So I have ruled that one out of the equation.

By the way Marco, I forgot to ask you one thing. Did you get a chance to demo the 5400 before you bought it? In this case I am very curious to know where you found a dealer willing to do so in the Copenhagen area. I have been seeking high and low without any luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Tkratz

Unfortuantly u won,t find a dealer that has one machine in the store ready for demo and that,s bcuz the model is totaly sold out including their demo once, so i didn,t get that chance either, and so it was a blind buy based on the experts and users reviews and to be honest i don,t regret it for one moment coudn,t be happier at this price point , and while there,s many danish online dealer announcing that they have it in store ready for delivery, i doubt that very much. i had to order it from 4 different online dealer before i found one that keeps his word,

anyway i wish u a good luck testing it but incase if u don,t get it my offer are still open!

By the way if u successfuly test the sony, would u care to post some feedback about the sound the quality compared to both the yamaha amps that u have tested before.....iam just curious

 

[TKratz]

Hi Marco

You did the same thing I am doing now then. I certainly hope the dealer is honest when stating the receiver is in stock with a delivery timeline of 2-3 days, otherwise I will not have it available for the testing this weekend.

And sure, I can write a short story about how I think the Sony performs against the Yamaha Z7 and Denon 4308 on my B&W speakers

 

[rajeeboy]

Tkratz

I'm interested in that- how do the amps compare with each other?

 

[Anonymous]

Ok cool topic is marked

 

[TKratz]

Well guys, sorry to dissappoint you, but I am afraid the feedback will get delayed as my Sony dealer has let me down. I will not have the Sony available for testing this weekend

But next weekend hopefully.

And please don't get too excited. I am no professional in this game. I can only give you my personal findings during a not very sophisticated testing.

 

[TKratz]

Here it is the (mighty) showdown in my (humble) living room between Sony DA5400ES, Denon 4308A and Yamaha DSP-Z7.

Once more I would like to stress, that I am not near experienced in this kind of testing, so please do not read this as the definite result. But it sure was a lot of fun!

Test conditions and environment:

The receivers were tested on my B&W XT 5.1 system. As I am still looking for the right Blu Ray player, I had to borrow one for the occasion. The one I could get was Samsung BD-P1000 and this unfortunately created some limitations to the test. We had planned to test HD audio decoding in the receivers, but we found out (afterwards) that this Samsung cannot bitstream HD-audio. This explains our difficulties in getting the right surround sound.

Auto setup of surround sound parameters went smooth, at least with the Yamaha and Sony... With Denon it was a longer and more complicated process. The all did a nice job on the set up even though the Yamaha was the only one to get the sub right. The others found it 1 meter further away than it actually was. Already here we got the impression of a greater precision of the Yamaha.

Besides Blu Ray movies we tested the musical capabilities, mostly in stereo with different genres like classical, rock, R&B and pop.

Results and findings:

Let me say first, that this was a much closer race than I had expected. This sure is 3 fine amp/receivers! You could also argue that the test is a bit unfair, as the Sony (1400£) is at another price point than the Denon (1630£) and Yamaha (1975£).

When it comes to movie surround sound, we all agreed Yamaha is the King! You just got a little more of that Cinema feeling when using the Yamaha. It wasn't by a great margin though, and this surprised us a bit, because when we tested it at the dealer it was by far superior to Yamaha RX-V3900 and Pioneer LX71. Maybe my room (4m x 4m) is simply not optimal for surround sound, or maybe this is just more stiff competition. Between the Sony and Denon I would say the Denon actually came in second.

With regard to the music, a lot comes down to personal taste and the type of music you prefer. We all agreed that Denon was the best match if you prefer classical. The Denon is a little lighter than the Sony, and a lot lighter than the Yamaha. It has an exceptional grip on the treble. Yamaha was not the best match here and came in last. With bass heavy R&B, the situation is reversed. Neither the Denon nor the Sony seemed to have sufficient bass control to avoid a slightly muddy sound in the lover range, but the Denon did better than the Sony. The Yamaha simply seemed one class better with exceptional bass control. With rock our opinions were divided. Some preferred the Denon, others the Sony. I still preferred the Yamaha, which I in general found to be a very good match for my B&W speakers (except for classical music which I am not listening to very often). This was no great surprise, as several kind members on this Forum has recommended that I invested in Yamaha for my speakers.

What surprised me the most:

One big surpirse was, that Sony seemed a lot less powerful than the other two. I did expect the others to be more powerfull, but not with this margin. It was almost like I start thinking; it is not powerful enough for my speakers, which seems very hard to drive!

Another big surprise was to experience that my aging Denon DVD-1600 by far had the superior DAC to all these receivers. I know this is not stereo devices and you shouldn't expect too much, but I had still hoped I would see similar performance of the receivers to my DVD. This would make my search for a Blu Ray player far easier. Now I am still in the situation where I need to find a profile 2.0 player with a good DAC implemented (or at least on par with my old Denon).

Conclusion:

As you might have guessed I went for the Yamaha, but it was no easy decision based on the price difference. If the Denon was not that annoying to operate (I really didn't like the user interface which I found complicated and counter intuitive), I could have been tempted to get this one. Also, if the Sony just had the network capability it would have been far more attractive for me. The Sony probably still is where you get the most for your money. I know you can get a box to fix this, but that is one additional box and that is against the house rules where I live...

 

[Tom Moreno]

Hi TKratz,

Thanks for your posting the results of what sounds like a really fun afternoon. It sounds like all the receivers you tested gave each other a pretty good run for their money and in the end you've probably chosen the one that best mates to your speaker system. What a great shout for getting your local dealer to give you an in-home demo. I have to say that your DAC findings surprised me as well. I own a Denon 3808 which uses the same SHARC ADSP-21366 DACs coupled with the AL24 Processing Plus as the 4808 and I find it very pleasant to listen to (I let my amp do all the DAC work, nothing's connected via analogue). Anyhow, thanks for the post I really enjoyed it.

 

[TKratz]

Hi Tom

It sure was two fun days! And as you say very much comes down to speaker parring. With other speakers you could get a completely different result.

I could add that we actually also - just for the fun of it - tested my old Dali 400 speakers and my brothers Schnell speakers. These Dali's are very bright and therefore the Denon was not a good match at all! Which makes me wonder how I survived 9 years with exactly this combination? Anyway, also here the Yamaha was a better match. With regard to my brothers Schnell they have a very dark sound and Yamaha in this case was definately not a good match. Here the Denon was the one to opt for. To make it even more funny, my brother have a NAD stereo receiver which is so dark that we probably had the worst match of the day! It was a depressingly dark listen. We decided that he could have my old Denon as the NAD will go to my parents with my old Dali's.

As for lending out the receiver this is unfortunately a bit more complicated than it might sound...

Only the Yamaha was lend at my local dealer. The Denon is my brothers and the Sony I actually bought online. The Sony has now been returned.

In Denmark it is pretty hard to make comparisons as some equipment are sold exclusively by one chain (Hifiklubben). They sell Dali, B&W, NAD and Denon as the largest brands. I have nothing against this chain as such. They are very qualified and provides excellent service. They also have wonderful test¡ng rooms. The only problem is, that they do not lend out epuipment. Therefore, the only reason I got the change to test the Denon was that my brother has just bought one. Next problem is that my speakers are bought the same place, and therefore none of the competitors sell them. This leaves you no chance of testing your future receiver with your speakers in the stores. Not optimal at all!

Your only chance is to find a nice dealer willing to loan you his equipment for home testing or bring along your speakers. In this case I had to run an exclusion race in the shop first on KEF speakers (which supposedly was the ones getting closest to my B&W speakers). Here I ruled out the Yamaha RX-V3900 and the Pioneer LX71. I would have liked to test Pioneer LX81 (instead of LX71) and Onkyo 906 as well, but these was not available.

 

[Tom Moreno]

Wow!

It sounds like you did your home work very thoroughly on this one! The best thing about that is that now whenever you sit back and listen to your system you won't have any lingering doubts about whether or not you've put together the best package- you have! My AVR-3808 won't be going anywhere anytime soon as I love it and it's less than a year old, but my Mordaunt-Short speakers could be bettered I think. So when this recession stops squeezing my business I'll be looking to find a better matching system. Luckily I live in South London and have a pretty good relationship with my local Sevenoaks so I look forward to being able to have a test like you've done when the time comes.

Enjoy your new AVR!!!

 

[TKratz]

Thank you Tom!

I sure will.

I cannot recommend highly enough that you go listen to any potential new equipment before buying it. It is a wonderful experience, and often you get very surprised about what you find. I at least found out that I do not always prefer what the majority do.

For ones I wasn't really impressed with the Pioneer LX71. Something that has really created heated discussions at Danish forums.

Good luck in your hunt for new speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

Tkratz

Thank's for posting your result , iam happy for you that u finally found the right amp. for your system

i do have a couple of comment about the test , so please allow me...first of all , u never want to put a samsung bd-player and sony amp. togather , that,s would be realy the worst match one can make , iam saying this because i have had 2 bd-player in my system , before i bought my current player (pioneer bd lx71) it was the samsung bd-1400 , and the sony bd-s350 ,and after an A.B test with both player sending a bitstream HD-audio signal to the sony 5400es , the different was like day and night! and iam not talking only in term of audio quality but also about the sound characteristics and tunnel , u would be realy surprise to hear how much of a different it makes to the sound , we carried the test with every audio format from dts-hd ma/dolby tru-hd to old school dts/dolby digital , no matter what the task , the different was all apparent. even my own freind who was at visit that day and didn,t know allmost nothing about sound , he felt something about the test , he just discribe that the sound was more pleasing and integrating to his ears when the sony bd-player was on

second, in term of the sony 5400es power , ok first thing first the sony 5400es might not be the most powerfull amp. at this price range, but it,s for sure got enough power and guts to drive allmost any speakers system on the market , unless u have a very huge and a very unsensitive speakers and live in a very huge room then maybe right then u will start having to worry about power problem with the sony , but if that is the case i don,t think any av/receiver at thise price point can do the task with enough power

i have my system in a room which,s 5-meter long and 4-meter wide ,with the kef iq7 floor standig speakers as my main front, the sony would drive them like a small baby's , just at moderate sound level it would fill up the space in my room with a pure powerfulll energatic sound while plenty and plenty still in reserve , now if i turn up a litttel bit more , just about 16-db before reaching to referernce sound level, then my speakers will begin to get a hell of a workout the sony would just drive every last bit out of them filling up the space with sounds and details like there was no speakers no border no walls left in the room, while still plenty of power in reserve.

With that being said befor -power is not everything in an amp. some times it,s quantity vs quality but if any one has big lust for power and power is the main concern , then i would truly recommend the onkyo av/receiver such as 906/905/876/875 they have muscles like a big house.

another thing about the sony , is that it realy demand alot more than auto calibrating in term of seting it up correctly and speakers placement and toeing in and out are all very crucial , but once all set up correctly the sony will reward.

again congratulation with your new amp. enjoy the system

 

[TKratz]

Hi Marco

Thank you very much for your comments. It is always nice to get feedback

And I fully agree, Samsung BD-P1000 is nowhere near the best Blu Ray player you can get! But it was unfortunately the only one I could get for the test. This may also explain why we didn't experience the same level of differences as we did at the dealer where the Panasonic BD60 was used. Clearly a much better player. At this point we didn't test the Sony and the Denon though, only the two Yamaha's (RX-V3900 and DSP-Z7) and Pioneer LX71. DSP-Z7 was clearly better than the others at this ocassion on KEF iQ50 speakers.

Whether bitstream from one player can be better than bitstream from another player is a very hot topic that often creates heated discussions. I do not have sufficient experience in that field to comment.

You can undoubtebly get better sound if you manually adjust a lot of parameters. With only 1« day we didn't have time to make too many of these manual adjustments, but I think you can argue, that the disadvantage is the same for all the receivers? It is quite funny, because I got a similar comment on a Danish forum when I told I preferred both Yamaha's before the Pioneer on the above mentioned KEF speakers. "Then you got the settings on the Pioneer wrong" was the comment. Well, if the skilled people in the shop cannot get the settings right, the chance I will be able to do it better is minimal, and then I am not interested.

Don't get me wrong, the Sony is an excellent receiver! Probably the best all-rounder in my test, and it got very close to the pricier rivals.

And then I might have been a little unclear with regard to power. I am not looking for the most powerful receiver, and I do not need louder levels than half of what these receivers can muster. Otherwise I should have gone with the Pioneer or Onkyo as you suggest (I would actually have liked to hear the Onkyo 906, but as described earlier this receiver was unfortunately not available). What I am looking for is control, and here it was very apparent that Yamaha simply was one class above the others. I don't know what it is with these speakers, although I love the sound, the bass has proven more than difficult to control. Yamaha was the only one to avoid a slightly muddy sound in the bass - even at modest sound levels.

Let me finally also point out, that I didn't use the Samsung for music. This was tested with my much more capable Denon DVD-1600.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Tkratz

please don,t get me wrong i wasn,t trying to refer to the sony that i should be the winner in thise test ,and whether if i like one and u like the another , the fact is still that all these 3 av/receiver are good and will offer a decent sound for the money! unfortunatly i didn,t have the luck to hear the yamaha , but it should be realy very good with the edge going to it in this test after what i have heard, but what i was referring to , it was that in direct comparion test Sony vs Denon . the sony was clearly a better preformer whether if it was in music or movie , it,s not that it offer alot of more sonic over the denon , but what i loved about the sony over the denon, is that the way it do,s bass , and got more of a self restrain.

As for auto calibration, it,s realy a hit and miss thing , what i ment some would have advantage and some would have even disadvantage.

about the bitstreaming thing, u are right it,s a hot topic and a hole new one

but personly speaking from my own experince , it make alot of a difference whether if are bit streaming from expensive player and or cheap one .

 

[TKratz]

Hi Marco

It sounds like you did a more thorough job comparing the Sony with the Denon. I of course trust you when you say the Sony offers better control and bass. I just cannot confirm these findings from my own test. I found a similar bass control from the Denon and the Sony. It might also come down to the speakers used in the test. Even though KEF and B&W are similar in many ways I am sure there are differences as well.

Finally, a lot depends on personal taste

 

[Anonymous]

Hi TKKratz

I agree with that some of it depand on a personal taste and alot of it depand on the room invaroment and the accustic phenomena that involved with it