Tannoy Canterbury, KEF Reference 5, Fyne Vintage Twelve, SF Serafino

[km.ipj]

Hi guys,

So I currently have a setup with KEF R900 + NAD T758 + Musical Fidelity M6PRX amplifier and a KF92 sub. I also added a KEF center channel directly wired to the NAD (speakers are wired to the musical fidelity amp).

I'm looking to upgrade as I'm moving to a new apartment soon. The space is 21x13 with a lot of glass windows and is assymetric shaped.

A few questions:

1. Stick with a high quality 2 channel integrated amp like NAD M33, or worth upgrading the NAD to a higher quality AVR (and still using the musical fidelity m6prx for the speakers). I do enjoy the clarity of audio from the center channel when watching movies or Netflix. Also, feel given the room layout, a DIRAC might be helpful.

2. I narrowed it down to four speakers - really based on reading reviews and aesthetics. Love the vintage Tannoy / Fyne look, but also love the SF aesthetic. KEF is different but also looks amazing - very clean looking for a NYC apartment. I'll try to listen to the sound before buying, but unsure if I'll be to demo all four. Any thoughts on speaker choice, esp given the assymetric room with lots of windows?

Really appreciate the help!

 

[12th Monkey]

I would doubt you'll be getting the benefit of such expensive speakers on the end of amps like the MF & NAD. Spending £30k on speakers and £3-4k on amplification doesn't seem to make much sense. Even if you went down the high end AV amp route, such as Anthem, there's still going to be a disparity between amp and speakers.

At the rarefied speaker level you are talking about, I very much doubt anyone here has much experience (if any), and I'm certain no-one will have any comparative experience. If I were spending that much, I'd want an at-home demo.

 

[jjbomber]

If I were spending that much, I'd want an at-home demo.

Exactly that. A lot of glass will give a very bright sound, so invest in a lot of curtains! Home demo is vital.

 

[davidf]

If I were spending that much, I'd want an at-home demo.

I hope the apartment building has adequate lifts - IF he can find a dealer with all models and willing to offer home demo...

 

[davidf]

Whether a system is two-channel or multi-channel, the amplifier/speaker pairing needs to be very carefully chosen. If only changing the speakers, they need to be suitable for your amplifier/amplifiers to drive, and to get the best out of them. If you're under-driving an expensive loudspeaker, you're only getting a fraction of your investment, and you'll actually be better off with a cheaper alternative. The quality initially comes from your source (if you purely watch Netflix, you're barking up the wrong tree), then your pre-amplifier has to pass on the signal without touching it - your speakers being at the end of the chain are reproducing what they're given. The sound quality of Dolby Digital Plus is 30 year old tech, and in my opinion, while it can sound good, it shouldn't have any place in modern, quality home theatre systems.

And that's before you even consider choosing the right speaker for the room. If the speaker doesn't work in your room, again, you're only getting a fraction of the potential of your investment. A suitable £5,000 speaker will sound better in any room than an unsuitable £30,000 pair. And you can't and shouldn't rely on digital room correction to force a speaker to sound good. That won't end well. I don't care how good the correction is, there's no substitute for a speaker that works well in any room as a good base to work from. A more suitable speaker means the correction system isn't stressed and having to make huge corrections, potentially ruining the overall sound and changing their sound, removing the very characteristics you bought the speaker for in the first place.

And never choose a loudspeaker on looks alone, unless of course that's your main priority of over sound quality in your listening space, or you want to impress your mates. You're the one who has to listen to them - what anyone else thinks of their looks is irrelevant. And that's before we get into hi-fi loudspeakers suitability for high quality home theatre.

 

[jjbomber]

And never choose a loudspeaker on looks alone, unless of course ...

you're married and wish to remain so!!!

 

[km.ipj]

I would doubt you'll be getting the benefit of such expensive speakers on the end of amps like the MF & NAD. Spending £30k on speakers and £3-4k on amplification doesn't seem to make much sense. Even if you went down the high end AV amp route, such as Anthem, there's still going to be a disparity between amp and speakers.

At the rarefied speaker level you are talking about, I very much doubt anyone here has much experience (if any), and I'm certain no-one will have any comparative experience. If I were spending that much, I'd want an at-home demo.

Thank you! That makes sense. So it seems those speakers are not really meant for any AVR system, and only for a stereo system?

And thank you for pointing that there is no skipping pre-amp, DAC, amp...

 

[km.ipj]

Whether a system is two-channel or multi-channel, the amplifier/speaker pairing needs to be very carefully chosen. If only changing the speakers, they need to be suitable for your amplifier/amplifiers to drive, and to get the best out of them. If you're under-driving an expensive loudspeaker, you're only getting a fraction of your investment, and you'll actually be better off with a cheaper alternative. The quality initially comes from your source (if you purely watch Netflix, you're barking up the wrong tree), then your pre-amplifier has to pass on the signal without touching it - your speakers being at the end of the chain are reproducing what they're given. The sound quality of Dolby Digital Plus is 30 year old tech, and in my opinion, while it can sound good, it shouldn't have any place in modern, quality home theatre systems.

And that's before you even consider choosing the right speaker for the room. If the speaker doesn't work in your room, again, you're only getting a fraction of the potential of your investment. A suitable £5,000 speaker will sound better in any room than an unsuitable £30,000 pair. And you can't and shouldn't rely on digital room correction to force a speaker to sound good. That won't end well. I don't care how good the correction is, there's no substitute for a speaker that works well in any room as a good base to work from. A more suitable speaker means the correction system isn't stressed and having to make huge corrections, potentially ruining the overall sound and changing their sound, removing the very characteristics you bought the speaker for in the first place.

And never choose a loudspeaker on looks alone, unless of course that's your main priority of over sound quality in your listening space, or you want to impress your mates. You're the one who has to listen to them - what anyone else thinks of their looks is irrelevant. And that's before we get into hi-fi loudspeakers suitability for high quality home theatre.

Thank you for your thoughts here.

I thought the musical fidelity amp with 250wpc power would be sufficient to drive most of these speakers, which are pretty efficient to begin with. Is there a big quality mismatch given the price difference?

Agree that the NAD is the weak link in the system.

Re Pairing or amp with speakers probably would need to work with a dealer - just don't have the knowledge for that.

Regarding suitability for the room, I agree - seems a in home demo is the only way to test it out. I'll start looking for dealers in the city who would do it.

Thanks again.

 

[davidf]

Thank you for your thoughts here.

I thought the musical fidelity amp with 250wpc power would be sufficient to drive most of these speakers, which are pretty efficient to begin with. Is there a big quality mismatch given the price difference?

The power should be fine, although I haven't been able to pull up any 4ohm (or less) ratings, which will be the likely scenario for most high-end loudspeakers. Big MF stuff has always been high current with a lot of power and big soundstage, but I've always felt they're a little too soft and warm in the bass, and not enough overall "bite" for my personal liking (I prefer their older stuff). I don't suspect it will suit all of your shortlist, but then, it's all personally, I guess.

 

[Integralista]

Hi guys,

So I currently have a setup with KEF R900 + NAD T758 + Musical Fidelity M6PRX amplifier and a KF92 sub. I also added a KEF center channel directly wired to the NAD (speakers are wired to the musical fidelity amp).

I'm looking to upgrade as I'm moving to a new apartment soon. The space is 21x13 with a lot of glass windows and is assymetric shaped.

A few questions:

1. Stick with a high quality 2 channel integrated amp like NAD M33, or worth upgrading the NAD to a higher quality AVR (and still using the musical fidelity m6prx for the speakers). I do enjoy the clarity of audio from the center channel when watching movies or Netflix. Also, feel given the room layout, a DIRAC might be helpful.

2. I narrowed it down to four speakers - really based on reading reviews and aesthetics. Love the vintage Tannoy / Fyne look, but also love the SF aesthetic. KEF is different but also looks amazing - very clean looking for a NYC apartment. I'll try to listen to the sound before buying, but unsure if I'll be to demo all four. Any thoughts on speaker choice, esp given the assymetric room with lots of windows?

Really appreciate the help!

Hi,

speaker like Kef Ref 5 is real high ender with full range and very powerful bass. So it needs acoustic treatment etc. to sound right. This will be not easy in glassy department. You may otp for Kef Ref 1 but with adequate amplification (Naim Audio etc.). Also Sonus Faber is good. They have reached big sonical improvements overal. So it is not just nice italian face. Tannoy is oldstyle box for oldstyle home and maybe an old man. Fyne Audio is for sure better sounding. Think twice if HQ Theater option is not better for Netflix etc.

 

[twinkletoes]

if I had 30k to spend of speakers Id making the sure room is sorted acoustically before doing anything and spend 10k of that budget doing so, Considering everything after a certain amount of money will be marginal gain, without acoustic treatment you're quite literally throwing money down the drain.