Taking it too far!!

[admin_exported]

I have just been reading a few threads about everything from placebo effect to audiophile fuses and mains conditioning. Now I am going to sit on the fence as far as these are concerned as I have not tried them.

My only experience in how cables make a difference is when i changed my cheapo free interconnects to van den hul d103s. The difference to my ears was zero.

I am not saying that there was no difference but my ears clearly werent good enough to notice.

However I was chastised for having a couple of candlesticks on top of my speakers. The way it was said implied that this could in some way be detrimental to the sound. Now having put on some music and got my other half to take them off and on(i didnt know when they were on or off) there was no difference in the slightest. Not that I expected there to be.

My point is, I can understand people upgrading everything from cdp,amps,tt and speakers etc. I can even see that mains conditioning may make a difference, although I have no inclination aside from purchasing a tacima to try it. But are some people clutching at straws when trying to drag every last ounce of performance out of their system?

No doubt I will be shot down in flames for this post but I just find comments about candlesticks and fuses is taking it too far.

Personally I think the best system upgrade is more music!!

 

[Anonymous]

I think sometimes we are all so focused on "improving the sound" we don't appreciate what we do have and I agree, just appreciate the way your hi fi makes your fav music sound more than anything else.

 

[idc]

I would love to buy a practical classic like a Reliant Scimitar and and then have a thoroughly good time tinkering with it and maybe one day I will have a go. Meantime I enjoy tinkering with the hifi. So many of these threads go a bit pear shaped, but really where is the harm in a bit of audiophillia? There are much, much worse things to do, like golf.

 

[margetti]

I think each to their own - if upgrading to the nth degree makes you happy, then great. I have had my moments of "upgradeitis" and I enjoy those moments for what they are. I also enjoy moments like now when I'm 100% satisifed with what I'm getting out of my system, and just enjoying the music.

To be chastised for the candlesticks is OTT though, and the debate raging on the fuse thread is to my mind getting over-heated. But when people are passionate about something, and debate ensues, isn't that the very nature of the beast?

I often wonder if we conducted these "discussions" face to face, how the debates would differ - if at all!

 

[Anonymous]

Im not saying there is any harm in it. I respect others opinions but I just think if you were to really think about some of the more dubious upgrades you maybe would think twice. £16.50 for 5 fuses!That can buy a couple of second hand records or cds. I know this is a hifi forum but i just feel that sometime people are listening to their hifi and not the music. Some of the best info I have had from this forum isnt about hifi but on new films or music to check out.

If you are happy to spend money on these sort of upgrades aand they work for you then that is none of my business.

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting post....however......if I can get a bit more of the sound that I enjoy without having to go to the expense of a new piece of kit then thats what I will do. Part of the fun for me is experimenting with different tweaks here and there. Others may disagree and say the only way that you can upgrade is by spending loadsamoney on new gear. I dont have that option so have to make do with what I have. I also look round for interesting ad ons from Hifi dealers or manufacturers and then investigate other (usuallly much cheaper) options from other sources. FYI...I wont be going the fuses route anytime soon.

 

[Anonymous]

There is nothing wrong with it, I am just saying I think we all lose sight of what we do have at times (me included).

 

[The_Lhc]

idc: There are much, much worse things to do, like golf.

<SLAP>

Golf is the tinkerers dream sport! You can spend a lifetime tinkering with your swing and end up a worse player than when you started, so you just keep on tinkering!

I'm never going to say the word tinker again...

 

[Anonymous]

I suppose you could expand this argument to encompass almost anything. Take a car as an example....apart from wheels , brakes, engine and considering the English weather, maybe a roof, what else you really need. (ignoring the legal requirements for the minute). It will get you from A-B reasonably well. Some would argue for more comfort, others for more speed. You pays your money and takes your choice. My choice is not to own a car but thats neither here or there. Everyone is an individual, and in this context, they all hear differently and I am sure they all enjoy their HiFi and listening to music. Having a bit of not too expensive (in my case) fun trying out new ideas is part of the buzz.

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:
idc: There are much, much worse things to do, like golf.

<SLAP>

Golf is the tinkerers dream sport! You can spend a lifetime tinkering with your swing and end up a worse player than when you started, so you just keep on tinkering!

I'm never going to say the word tinker again...

You little tinker......

 

[Frank Harvey]

Audiophiles spend a lot of money on the kit they have, trying to reach audio nirvana. There are those little upgrades and tweaks that will give a fair difference, and some that will be more subtle. Sometimes many subtle differences can collectively make a big difference.

Having said that, there are those which are plainly loony. BUT, if these little tweaks don't really cost very much, why not enjoy ourselves and go ahead with them? If it makes an individual happier with their system (placebo or not), why shouldn't they be left to enjoy tinkering? Some may scoff and call them nuts, but it's the nuts that are probably more happy with their systems than those who bang on about silly, pointless and blind ABX testing etc (although the candle one seems a little wacky

)

For the record, this post isn't aimed at anyone here, it's just an observation I've made previously on another forum

 

[The_Lhc]

raym87: I suppose you could expand this argument to encompass almost anything. Take a car as an example....apart from wheels , brakes, engine and considering the English weather, maybe a roof, what else you really need.

<Harry Hill> Seats? </Harry Hill>

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi: Sometimes many subtle differences can collectively make a big difference.

I agree, sometimes we don't notice how much of an improvement we've made until we hear a lesser system, luckily I don't have fuses in our plugs here, but it's something I'd never do.

 

[Anonymous]

raym87:
I suppose you could expand this argument to encompass almost anything. Take a car as an example....apart from wheels , brakes, engine and considering the English weather, maybe a roof, what else you really need. (ignoring the legal requirements for the minute). It will get you from A-B reasonably well. Some would argue for more comfort, others for more speed. You pays your money and takes your choice. My choice is not to own a car but thats neither here or there. Everyone is an individual, and in this context, they all hear differently and I am sure they all enjoy their HiFi and listening to music. Having a bit of not too expensive (in my case) fun trying out new ideas is part of the buzz.

I was looking for a TT cartridge using google and the name was also the name of a type of wax used on cars,one site took me to an Audi TT forum with an 18 page thread on what was the best wax to use for polishing your Audi.

 

[Anonymous]

I am very happy with my system and no longer have the upgrade bug, its future proof, I think for a long time.

I notice in a lot of posts that people confuse " difference with improvement " not always the case as a difference can be detrimental to how a system sounds but because its different it does not mean better.

I am now buying and listening to more classical music, and realising that there is a whole new world out there in other genres, this to me is a far better way of enjoying my system.....

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:
raym87: I suppose you could expand this argument to encompass almost anything. Take a car as an example....apart from wheels , brakes, engine and considering the English weather, maybe a roof, what else you really need.

<Harry Hill> Seats? </Harry Hill>

Not necessarily!.....I have driven an agricultural vehicle whilst standing. No seats supplied.

 

[Anonymous]

It seems I maybe the worst offender of tweeking on this board. ;-)

To try to put things into context the better the equipment is to start with the less upside there is to Mods v The cheaper the unit is doesn't warrant the cost of many expensive parts.
On the other hand if something has well designed circuits and is made to price point comprimises have to be made in compenent choice.

Spend a little money on most systems can bring big gains which make them deliver well above the norm.

One thing is true, your system is only as good as its weakest link.
Mains conditioning is dealt with on High End equipment in its design. Take a look at Chord products for example.
Another thing because of the high degree of radiation off big Iron core transformers (as is found in AV amps and large Stereo) Pre Amps are housed in seperate boxes. Indeed even Cyrus do this using add on PSX units.

The main point is if you spend a little to get a lot you become satisfied with things, and are less likely to feel the urge to upgrade - Why?
Because what you end up with sounds better than off the shelf products costing much more money.

 

[crusaderlord]

Upgrading is fun - and usually successful and worthwhile in my experience.

Once you have your main separates bought (source/amp/speakers) it would usually take a substantial futher outlay to significantly improve the electronics side of things. But smaller upgrades to cables and conditioners can get you more out of what you have.

I have tweaked all sorts of things over the last 12 months, added speaker stands, isolation platform, upgraded speaker cable, added a tacima and now improved the mains cables. All have worked to a greater or lesser degree but all have made me feel happy to have done it. If i disconnect all the changes i made and go back to the original items i had there is a significant and percievable difference to where i started.

The case for using the money on more music is a good one, but many people (like me) already have a fairly substantial collection which is actually hard to get through it terms of quantity so i dont need to buy a lot of new music but i do like to upgrade the listening quality. But it is all about balancing the hobby out.

In the end you spend your money on what you prefer - to me spending a lot on say booze and smoking would constitute a waste, others will say buying cables are waste - my 20 year old son has an opposite perspective neither is right or wrong just different priorities (although of course im sure my son knows i am right really).

 

[Frank Harvey]

crusaderlord:In the end you spend your money on what you prefer - to me spending a lot on say booze and smoking would constitute a waste, others will say buying cables are waste....Well said - and only one of those perspectives do you actually gain anything for your money

 

[Alec]

FrankHarveyHiFi: (although the candle one seems a little wacky

)

No, wick-y.

 

[matthewpiano]

Give me good budget components, properly supported and using high quality cables, over expensive gear with cheap wires and poor support, any day of the week.

The hi-fi wise dredge the best out of the kit they have.

I do also agree, however, that you have to be careful not to spend more time listening to what the kit is doing than listening to and enjoying the music.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree, it is always the music I listen to.

The trouble is when you have enjoyed it played through really good systems over the years you never are satisfied with an inferior sound lacking that lovely presentation.

Thats the challenge I had with going onto an AV system playing music as well.
Couldn't afford a £5000 Denon AV amp so what do you do?

 

[The_Lhc]

raym87:the_lhc:raym87: I suppose you could expand this argument to encompass almost anything. Take a car as an example....apart from wheels , brakes, engine and considering the English weather, maybe a roof, what else you really need.
<Harry Hill> Seats? </Harry Hill>

Not necessarily!.....I have driven an agricultural vehicle whilst standing. No seats supplied.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to go on holiday in it though, would you?

 

[Anonymous]

the_lhc:raym87:the_lhc:raym87: I suppose you could expand this argument to encompass almost anything. Take a car as an example....apart from wheels , brakes, engine and considering the English weather, maybe a roof, what else you really need.
<Harry Hill> Seats? </Harry Hill>

Not necessarily!.....I have driven an agricultural vehicle whilst standing. No seats supplied.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to go on holiday in it though, would you?

Nope...but it will still get you from A to B. The same as the Tesco HiFi discussed on another thread will play music. It may not sound the best but it does what it says on the box.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Upgrades tend to work 'together'

If you only try an interconnect then the rest of the cabling might not be upto the job of allowing the extra detail through (Or indeed the components might not be very good anyways)

If you upgraded mains cable, interconnect AND speaker cable id be absolutely shocked if you couldnt tell a difference then (And question the overall setup and components in use)