switching cables round DOES make a difference!!!

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:
All metals have a 'grain' structure

Yes

aliEnRIK:

meaning its quite feasable that electrons would 'flow' one way easier than the other

Wow, quite a conclusion you arrived at there. If you were right so we better check all the high voltage power cables around the country to make sure they are drawn the right way around (from power plant to customer). Oh, hold on, the power grids mostly use three phase AC (alternating current), meaning the current actually flips direction at 50 or 60 times per second? Probably doesn't matter then (if your statement was ever true in the first place, which it isn't). Oh, hold on, HiFi interconnects and speaker cables work the same way (the AC bit - not three phase)? Hmmm....

aliEnRIK:My personal theory is that 'most' cables you wouldnt hear any difference one way or the other, unless it has been 'burned in' a particular way then you should continue to use that way (Which is why arrows are a good idea)

Interesting theory, where did it come from?

Perhaps I'm coming across a little too harsh here, but the pseudo science nonsense thrown around on this topic really is quite astonishing. I recommend anyone who cares about some factuals around this go and look up Wikipedia for "Metal" and have a good read. If you don't care - fine, but save us the attempts to explain a non existing phenomena using pseudo science.

 

[Anonymous]

bobbyg81:And it wasnt speaker cable!

Sorry you are right. Same argument though.

BTW, this was the friendly version.

 

[JoelSim]

Blimey. Some people just can't see past their Physics O-levels can they? Anything that anyone hears must be false because theory says so.

I'd rather trust my ears than a textbook.

 

[aliEnRIK]

storsvante:

Perhaps I'm coming across a little too harsh here, but the pseudo science nonsense thrown around on this topic really is quite astonishing. I recommend anyone who cares about some factuals around this go and look up Wikipedia for "Metal" and have a good read. If you don't care - fine, but save us the attempts to explain a non existing phenomena using pseudo science.

Wikipedia? Now YOUR having a laugh!

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:
Blimey. Some people just can't see past their Physics O-levels can they? Anything that anyone hears must be false because theory says so.

I'd rather trust my ears than a textbook.

You miss the point. You can trust your ears, fine with me. You may even be right that there is a real difference, Just do not expect other people to believe all the crazy assumptions put forward behind it,

 

[Anonymous]

Fahnsen:

Anyway, people should learn some basics about human perception. When one, accidentally or not, suddenly hears something that couldn't be heard if science were to be trusted, there's lots of things that explains this from the human angle.

In short: What we 'hear with our own ears' are not to be trusted, unless he do our hearing under strictly controlled circumstances: Instant switching between samples, no knowledge about what we actually hear etc.

Beside these human sources of error, there's also acoustic ones. Actually, if you move a speaker only a centimeter, this might cause an altered frequency response at your listening position. Same thing if you move your head. These are measurable facts that anyone with a mic and a computer can check for themselves.

Sound imaging placement is done by interaural time delay, which is sensitive to changes of less than 2 microseconds and interaural intensity difference down to below 0.5dB. It is also variable on frequency and volume. So you can hear minute differences. The ears are also quite wideband but the perception of sound is as you say channeled focused dependent on may things, if you listen to the same identical music twice even if you hear the same identical thing you may perceive different things. Remembering exactly what you heard and comparing to what you are now hearing is also vary unreliable. The ears/brain are even very good at filling in gaps, you can hear things that are not even present particularly when filling in human speach.

You missed the Fletcher-Munson effect. Equal loudnes curves. Different frequencies are perceieved as being more equal in loudness at higher volume and as being of different relative loudness at a lower volume. Increasing the volume increases the perceived clarity and quality of the music as long as it is not already too loud or inducing clipping. So small changes in volume can effect perceived sound quality even when you do not notice the change in volume, which is why in double blind testing equipment has to be level matched.

The moving you head thing is usually explained by Comb-filtering, the actual volume of different frequencies varies with your position in the room.

You also have physiological causes like blood pressure and emotional state.

The anti-difference brigade are often taken as questioning the validity of what people hear, but they do not trust their own eyes and ears aswell. Double blind tests are double blind and random, repeated many times, to remove chance. Hearing the difference has to be reliably repeatable, above pure coincidence. It is not so much questioning that differences are perceived but what they are attributed to. It is an attempt to stop people making false connections, people seek to make sense of the world and are prone to making connections and drawing conclusions, when the connection does not exist. If I change which way round the cables are connected and I hear a difference it must be because I changed the cables round, afterall that is the only thing I changed, double blind testing challenges this if it proves your own sense of hearing is not reliable at spotting the improvement and you are relying on other clues to not only reach the conclusion of why it sounded better but to even reliably hear the difference.

It is not natural to question the validity of your own senses - perceptions, and the conclusions you instinctively draw from them. Seeing is believing not doubting, but in your senses and brains efforts to make the world comprehendable they are not always correct.

Actually taking measurement is prefered because sensors are many times more sensitive than human hearing, double blind testing is only needed to identify if actual measured differences are perceiveable by listeners.

I think physical electrical differences in the cable dependent on which way round it is are possible, due to design in the case of the Supra sheilding earth, or imperfect connectors or cable. The difference could effect the cable core properities or the earth shielding and possibly be audible. Anything from altering the volume very slightly and so perceived clarity due to better electrical connection, to altering noise caused by ground loop induced magnetic coupling. Even unplugging and replugging in the cables could remove dust/corrosion or alter the connection, and how the cables are bent/curved or depending on shielding the proximity of other cables. I think physical electrical difference in the cable over time are also possible due to oxidizing.

The idea of inbuilt cable directionality giving superior performance when the right way round, when it does not change the cables measureable electrical properties, I find hard to believe. Burn in unless it involves actually melting the cable I also find hard to believe effects the molecular level.

Putting arrows on cables I expect is done because it causes no harm and stops people asking which way round the cables should go, and on being told it is irrelevant complaing they have read it is important, and so and so companys cables have arrows so why dont yours. I think most cable manufactures when asked to explain why their cables work better one way round than the other, hence the arrows, would admit it makes no difference, unless they sell high-end esoteric stuff with weird descriptions of how things improve sound.

 

[Anonymous]

Aaaah lovely. The old cable direction conversation. Honestly, has anyone superhuman hearing that they are able to:

a) memorise exactly how something sounds originally

b) recall that information and compare it to how something sounds at the very least shortly afterwards, to how the change in configuration sounds at the present time - regardless of it being cable direction, amp swap, new processor etc.

It's just as pointless as consumers demonstrating different kit in at least 2 different locations.

"Yea the Arcam sounded so much better than the Krell" "Ermm yea they were in two different shops with different source components/room size/furnishings etc."

First of all, all our ears are different so we hear things differently, just as each of our vision is unique. Secondly, and more importantly, the only true way to do a comparison is by doing a real-time switch a/b job.

I know it isn't exactly thread relevant, but it does tickle me how some 'audiophiles' claim that they preferred 'a component' compared to another, when they aren't even configured in the same setup at the same time in the same listening environment. But hey.....they're audiophiles lol !

 

[JoelSim]

THE_FORCE:
Aaaah lovely. The old cable direction conversation. Honestly, has anyone superhuman hearing that they are able to:

a) memorise exactly how something sounds originally

b) recall that information and compare it to how something sounds at the very least shortly afterwards, to how the change in configuration sounds at the present time - regardless of it being cable direction, amp swap, new processor etc.

It's just as pointless as consumers demonstrating different kit in at least 2 different locations.

"Yea the Arcam sounded so much better than the Krell" "Ermm yea they were in two different shops with different source components/room size/furnishings etc."

First of all, all our ears are different so we hear things differently, just as each of our vision is unique. Secondly, and more importantly, the only true way to do a comparison is by doing a real-time switch a/b job.

I know it isn't exactly thread relevant, but it does tickle me how some 'audiophiles' claim that they preferred 'a component' compared to another, when they aren't even configured in the same setup at the same time in the same listening environment. But hey.....they're audiophiles lol !

Is that why you chose the KEFs? Blindfold and pin?

Nice pics BTW.

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:
Is that why you chose the KEFs? Blindfold and pin?

Nice pics BTW.

Cheers Joel:

No it doesn't take a leap of faith to realise the Kef's are the mutts nuts. Anyone who hears them, in any environment knows that !

 

[tonky]

To - THE FORCE,

Do you have a spare room to rent please? (Any of those in the pictures will do!!)

 

[Anonymous]

tonky:
To - THE FORCE,

Do you have a spare room to rent please? (Any of those in the pictures will do!!)

Not at the moment I'm afraid Tonk, though I'll keep you in mind lol. As long as you don't come up here and think that the system will sound better once I change the direction of my cables pmsl.