SUGDEN a21a v Arcam FMJ A22

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I've been offered both these amps for a figure around £500.

Fair age difference but lot of good reports on the Sugden!

Any thoughts from those who may know.

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

This one is going to depend in part on the speakers you intend to drive.

 

[JoelSim]

semmie:

Hi,

I've been offered both these amps for a figure around £500.

Fair age difference but lot of good reports on the Sugden!

Any thoughts from those who may know.

Thanks

Can you get a long demo of each?

 

[chebby]

Yikes!

Sugden A21a for sure.

Even if you have to change speakers to more efficient ones.

(Envious)

 

[Anonymous]

The Sugden is pure class A goodness but is about 25W. The A22 is about 100W. If you have speakers of high enough sensitivity, think 88dB +, then the Sugden will work well and will give you a lush, sweet sound. The Arcam is capable of driving many more speakers with it's considerably greater grunt but will never sound as sweet in the midrange.

This also depends on what size you you need to fill with said speakers and what sort of sound you like. This isn't a straight forward like-for-like amp test.

 

[Anonymous]

No demo available with my own speakers - I'm needing speakers also due to damage to my equip.

Speakers I've looked at are B&W P6 or Tannoy revolution signature DC4T, both available for around £350...any thoughts?

 

[chebby]

Rega RS1 stand mounted. (about £384)

90db and 8ohm

Perfect match.

 

[Anonymous]

Good call Chebby. Sugden and Rega RS1. I reckon that could be sublime you know.

 

[Anonymous]

Prefer fllorstanders if poss...have large rooms.

 

[Anonymous]

Large rooms to fill with 25W amps means high sensitivity speakers. Sounds like the Arcam might float your boat more for this.

 

[chebby]

Semmie, do you want an amp for headbanging volumes in a large room? (And what is 'large'?)

If I was offered a Sugden A21a for £500 I think I would just get it anyway. (They are £1200 or more new.)

It is a pure class A design of some historical note. It is only 20 - 25 watts but supremely musical and probably without peer unless you get a much more expensive valve amp.

You will get usefully loud volumes with a 90db speaker but not party levels. What you do get is unique. Totally natural sounding music that is 'there' in the room a very uncanny way especially with acoustic or jazz, simply recorded material, live, and vocal. This is best achieved with stand mount speakers. They have less frontal area, better dispersion and imaging ability.

Forget about 'woolly', 'warm', 'soft' etc and think holographic.

 

[Anonymous]

H

Hmm, shame...liked the sound of the Sugden.

Have you any idea as to what possible speakers have the necessary high sensitivity ?

 

[Anonymous]

Semmie, do you want an amp for headbanging volumes in a large room? (And what is 'large'?)

If I was offered a Sugden A21a for £500 I think I would just get it anyway. (They are £1200 or more new.)

It is a pure class A design of some historical note. It is only 20 - 25 watts but supremely musical and probably without peer unless you get a much more expensive valve amp.

You will get usefully loud volumes with a 90db speaker but not party levels.

....would keep the neighbours happy and getting a bit old for headbanging!

Rooms are approx 20ft x 15ft

 

[chebby]

20 x 15 should be OK if you listen across the width of the room.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks for your help.....

Will investigate the speakers I have mentioned re. sensitivity and get back.

The speakers are about 10ft apart (on the 20ft wall) and 12ft from listening position (across the room)....any help?

 

[chebby]

Depending on the design of the speaker (and manufacturer recommendations) experiment with positioning.

Some speakers benefit from being pulled away from walls and all benefit from being away from corners. (18" from nearest corner a minimum). Some benefit from being close to a wall.

'Toeing in' the speakers at a slight angle towards your listening position is necessary with some speakers, and makes no difference to others.

Whether the speaker has a port on the rear or the front is not always a reliable guide as to best position with regards to distance from a wall. The Rega RS1's I mentioned earlier are a case in point. Rega state that they are not fussy about being close to a wall and they even make wall brackets for them despite being rear ported designs.

Some designs (like the PMC DB1a) are best at a specific distance from a wall (8cm I think) due to their particular design. (Transmission line in the case of the PMC DB1a's).

The key is to experiment. (Unless you use wall brackets. In which case use only models that are recommended as such by manufacturers.)

 

[plastic penguin]

I agree with chebby - I didn't realize the Sugden has a low output, so I think floorstanders will you higher db's. I've never heard the Sugden, but the Arcam would work well MA's, Kef's, B&W's and MS.

 

[seasiders rock]

i had an a21a for the best part of 10 years, a gem of an amp.

ok it,s only rated at 25 watts per channel but sounds more like 100, all down to the massive oversized transformer.

also dual mono, one transformer, but twin windings, each channel has it,s own power supply. the left and right boards are mounted directly onto the heat sinks at the sides....

bass to die for, sugden dont roll of the bass like a lot of other amp makers, it goes low.

dont forget it gets hot, i left mine on the whole time, no problems at all, probably best left on, it takes at least 30 to 40 mins to heat up and start to sing.. just make sure there is good air flow around and under the amp.

try the b & w 602 s3, discontinued but work very well, for the money they punch well above there weight, tweeter is excellent, not harsh at all. the bass with the 7" woofer is outstanding.

last sugden service is excellent, the a21a has been around since the early 90,s..

nearly forgot, there is a power amp version a21ap, same spec but will work with just about any quality pre...

enjoy..............a taste of the high end...cheap....

PS.

an a21ap power just finished on e bay for £275....pre from rotel or nad and sorted, bargain...you would have to spend a grand or more to better it....

 

[Anonymous]

I've owned a Sugden a21a, for over 15 years. But I've never been happy with the sound which is too warm, although details are all there.Sounds such as cymbals are just about discernible but not nearly prominent enough for my liking. I've recently been looking to change my speakers which I bought on offer a couple of years before the Sugden, but they partnered a different amp then.

I was recommended the B&W CM7 as a good match for the Sugden, but I read that these require a minimum input of a 30W anp, and the Sugden output is 25W. I was told that they would compensate for the Sugden's overly warm sound.

Any opinions or better suggestions welcomed.

Peter