I'm interested in your thought on streaming. I've just started having traded in separates for the Arcam solo music, that allows this facility. I've started subscribing to Quboz and have gone for the £10 a month service of MP3 @ 320. The cd quality service costs £20 per month. I thought initially that I would be happy with the MP3 version and also thought that £20 was rather expensive. Having listened for a couple of weeks I would say that it is definitely inferior to listening to CDs and inferior to fm radio, but better than dab. Not sure whether to upgrade or not. I'm listening via Bluetooth and at times it has blips or nano-second breaks. Any thought appreciated. I'm subscribing in order to stop buying so many CDs. Also, it's definitely put me off the idea of downloading, I'm sick of being on the iPad!
Streaming
- Thread starter cse
- Start date
Firstly you need to know that Bluetooth is not implemented particularly well on iThings, Apple would prefer you to use their propriatory Airplay.
The simple solution may be to get a Chromecast Audio device, ideally with an outboard dac (if you do not have one that suits) and use the iThing purely as a remote.
I use Spotify Connect on a cheap Raumfeld Connector 2 (£120), directly into a pair of active speakers, (though you can use the amp/speaker of your choice) sound quality is on a par with CD.
The simple solution may be to get a Chromecast Audio device, ideally with an outboard dac (if you do not have one that suits) and use the iThing purely as a remote.
I use Spotify Connect on a cheap Raumfeld Connector 2 (£120), directly into a pair of active speakers, (though you can use the amp/speaker of your choice) sound quality is on a par with CD.
cse said:
I would check Auralic Aries Mini.. support for lossless streaming services from tidal and qobuz, optional hdd/ ssd, lovely app and lots of other things.. very well made too..
lpv said:
Thanks for the reply. What is the purpose of another app, if you don't mind me asking, I already have the Quboz player app.
Thanks for your reply. I don't, unfortunately, follow your advice. Why do I need chromecast audio and a dac, I've just spent £1500 on a one- box solution. My criticism was the blips that occur during streaming and whether anyone had compared the MP3 streaming service to a cd quality one. Another question I had was whether u should use the volume via your iPad or amplifier in sound quality terms.
as a apple user you should be looking rather to stream via airport express or apple tv.. I do, no single dropout... unfortunately arcam lacks airplay so the easiest solution is to invest £79 for a new AEX or less for used one.. plenty of them on auction site...
it doesn't matter where you control the volume, iPad or amp
ps. what's put you off the idea of downloading?
it doesn't matter where you control the volume, iPad or amp
ps. what's put you off the idea of downloading?
Dave_
Well-known member
There's absolutely no point or benefit to paying a premium for a 'CD quality' service if you're then going to send it over lossy Bluetooth link...
lpv said:
I think that with downloading I'm going to have to keep using a screen to locate my music. That isn't something I would enjoy.
Dave_
Well-known member
cse said:
Aside from the fact iOS devices don't support aptX, even if they did it still uses lossy compression
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/can-aptx-give-you-better-sound-over-bluetooth/
daveh75 said:
some people just wrongly think aptX is lossless
airport express is the best way for the masses to send data wirelessly, without loss.
Dave_
Well-known member
I disagree with that on several countslpv said:
Airplay, like BT, uses a 'device' as a server. I don't like that. I prefer the Spotify Connect/Chromecast approach, and they're cross platform.
Airplay on the other hand is proprietary Apple, and intended primarily for use with Apple products and with less than 20% mobile market share, and 5% desktop OS share the 'masses' aren't using Apple products.
Apple just aren't and never have been very good at networking. Their network products are overpriced, always underperform and are always outdated because they're so slow to refresh them
You also have the issue of adding 'hops' to Wi-Fi networks.
daveh75 said:
could you take your time and explain how their products always underperform please?
true, I was a bit too optimistic with ' for the masses' one... any android and windows will beat apple in ' for the masses' departmnet.
chris_bates1974
Well-known member
I use an airport express, and stream from mine, and my families, iDevices a lot... To the extent that my wife has asked if I am going to sell the CD player!
one thing I've found, to answer one of your questions, is that I prefer to have the volume on the device at max, and then control the volume on the amp. I don't know why!
one thing I've found, to answer one of your questions, is that I prefer to have the volume on the device at max, and then control the volume on the amp. I don't know why!
The 'one box solution' aquired by the OP is not good enough by his own admission, several reasons for this has been given and they are 'limitations' rather than 'faults' that can actually be fixed.
The simplest solution is to use Airplay rather than Bluetooth, for the reasons already given but that implies a correct setup network wise, something that can be quite difficult with non Apple computer/network.
It is also an additional expense, £79 new, £59 refurb but the ChromeCast Audio is only £30 and connects directly to your Solo via Toslink. This means minimal network issues and no dropouts as the music signal is not sent over Airplay or Bluetooth.
It does complicate the control situation though, switching from app to app to do different things could get quite tedious, though maybe you can control everything from the CCA app...*unknw*
The simplest solution is to use Airplay rather than Bluetooth, for the reasons already given but that implies a correct setup network wise, something that can be quite difficult with non Apple computer/network.
It is also an additional expense, £79 new, £59 refurb but the ChromeCast Audio is only £30 and connects directly to your Solo via Toslink. This means minimal network issues and no dropouts as the music signal is not sent over Airplay or Bluetooth.
It does complicate the control situation though, switching from app to app to do different things could get quite tedious, though maybe you can control everything from the CCA app...*unknw*
Paul.
Well-known member
lpv said:
Im a card carrying Apple fanboy and will admit Apples networking gear is sub par. Look at some of the webpages like small net builder at throughput tests etc and you will see they do not perform as well as others. The older airport extremes were competitive at the time but Apple seem to have lost interest. I rate Asus routers highly but have not looked recently so dont know who is most competitive.
I do like Airplay for simplicity but it is very resourse heavy on a network.
ok, off the subject again.. I think we need another thread " airplay/ airport express alternatives"
I used to experience a similar issue with Airplay, with occasional fits and starts. I now tether my iPad directly to my AV receiver, which is much much better. No dropouts ever, even though my iPad is still pulling the signal wirelessly of course from my network.
A way you could do this by using a Dragonfly DAC, which I understand you can now connect an iThing to one end. I think it has RCA outs the other end, which presumably you can plug straight into your Arcam.
A way you could do this by using a Dragonfly DAC, which I understand you can now connect an iThing to one end. I think it has RCA outs the other end, which presumably you can plug straight into your Arcam.
BigH
Well-known member
Your problems are probably due to mixing Apple with bluethooth. I think you would be better off streaming via an Apple device such as ATV or AEX, you can buy these for about £50 refurb or used. Really there should not be much difference between mp3 and cd if its the same master, I have done comparisons and can't really tell the difference. You can have a trial of the cd quality service?
cse said:
I understand your confusion, caused I think by people trying to be helpful and trying to find ways round your issues.
There is of course another, more brutal way of looking at your situation, put simply you have spent rather a lot of money on the wrong equipment. It really is not at it's best working the way you want it to
The real solution is a setup with onboard support for Qobuz, so that you can use a wired connection for transmitting music data avoiding any kind of wireless connection with the possibility of dropouts at peak times and additional compression cycles that may reduce sound quality.
WRT the Bluetooth connection, as explained in my first post, Bluetooth is not well implemented on Apple products, no AptX codec so a mediocre performance. You should have bought a unit with Airplay, which the Arcam does not have, if you want to stream hi-fi quality from an iPad.
Thanks daveteco for your response. I would be happy with the Arcam even without streaming though. Do you think I would benefit from buying an airport express ( at the moment I have no idea what it is, or where it plugs into) to remove dropouts. Would it improve the streaming quality (which is already very good) do you think? Obviously Arcam were happy with the Bluetooth option. Or could I just buy a tablet that has Bluetooth aptx?
I for one am completely lost now. To recap, I am essentially happy with new Arcam solo music and think Quoboz is amazing. However, I stream via my apple mini to the Bluetooth of the Arcam and have experienced some dropout issues. The sound quality with the MP3 320 service is good, but noticeably lacks definition compared to when I play CDs. My listening preferences are in this order: cd, fm, radio streaming, dab. What I don't want is IT issues when I listen to music. It all sounds a bit complicated, with multiple solutions. I might just continue with the current set up and put up with the occasional dropouts, rather like the scratches that enhance LP listening! I'm listen to to Colin Davis Sibelius on Quoboz in perfectly acceptable sound with no dropouts, but last night plenty. Still haven't found out if cd quality streaming will sound noticeably different to MP3 320 streaming. Also does the unit your streaming from ie the apple have to have aptx Bluetooth as well the unit receiving it ie the Arcam. I know that the Arcam does, but I'm not sure if the apple mini 4 does, as it only says Bluetooth. Does an apple airport express have to connect to your phone or route? I hope not.
cse said:
The Arcam is a very decent piece of kit, just not very suitable for your current requirements.
To be honest, I think that an inexpensive Tablet, dedicated to Qobuz and any other music apps that you might want might be the best bet. Just make sure you get one that supports AptX.
Before you do, it might be a good idea to see if you can resolve the dropout issues. If possible, simply connect the iPad to the Solo via the headphone output. Try it like this and also via Bluetooth at a time you are getting drop outs, this should tell you if your Bluetooth connection is the culprit. If it is, take advice from Arcam in how to maximise the Bluetooth connection, it isn't quite as 'plug and play' as the manufacturers claim.
If you can resolve the Bluetooth connection issue, then the dedicated tablet solution may well be the way to go.
It you cannot maintain a clean connection, then it is time to think of another solution. A Chromecast Audio is perhaps the way to go, use it to connect to Qobuz, then into the toslink on your Arcam, your iPac acts as a remote only, no music data is transmitted. With the volume in the Qobuz at maximum, set the volume on the Arcam to the loudest setting you would normally use, then forget it. Use the volume in Quoboz which should then be towards the top of its range for normal use. If you find you are regularly playing music with the setting at 75% or better you are doing fine.
The Airport Express and Apple TV are network devices for the wireless transfer of music or video from a hand held device to your system, they work well and are easy to set up in an Apple based network, but if you are PC based, then I am not so sure, you will probably need some third party expertese.
But I can't agree ever that 320 mb/s mp3 is indistinguishable from cd. Part of the requirements of the op relate to obvious differences he hears. It might be close - but it is obviously discernible.
wiggy
wiggy
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