streaming and the slow death of disc article

[lee37]

posted this on the forums so more people can see and air there views

this article is a load of garbage its just hype from samsung.

so at the moment more people are watching films on download or streaming, why because they are cheaper eg blockbuster instore rental £3.50 stream from xbox £1.20, this is mainly due to us being in a recession.

the same reason why download games are more popular ie xbox 360 arcade games cheap to buy.

there are plenty of reasons why sales are down mainly its all about money people only have so much to spend
and cash is now spread out between more things itunes, x360, ps3 cd, dvd, blu ray etc etc, so sales may be down in one area but going up in others. look at all the triple a games that have been released in the last 3 months for example.

so for the short term sales may be down but do people really want to give a download as a present or a physical disc.

according to samsung and some others cd was supposed to die out 3 years ago, so why is hmv, play and amazon still selling them if no one wanted them they would not sell them, do you see psone games on play or amazon no!

you have been able to stream form your pc for years so why all the hype now it will not take of, not for another 5 or so years at least.
this is due to broadband and bt and using 20 year old techonology with new bits added on it just cant cope.

in 2-3 years when the 4k tv are mainstream, do you really think you will be able to download a 4k film with hd sound approx 60gb via broadban, NOT A CHANCE
give me the 4k blu ray disc instead

if you want to watch a h.264 film on sub sky hd quality with outdated dolby sound then streaming is great

but if you want to watch 1080p with dts master hd sound then grab that blur ray disc

what hifi should be ashamed of printing this article they are just pandering to samsung

its strange that samsung release digital streamer then slag of blu ray players, maybe its because there players are crap and panasonic and sony have the market cornered

 

[fr0g]

I tend to download albums now. Usually FLAC.

I have a PS3. If the download was the same price, never mind cheaper , I would opt for that. Much quicker and no need to swap disks and no worry of damage or loss, they are there to be downloaded again if anything happens.

Short term, streaming is not as good quality for video, a major upgrade of the internet infrastructure is needed first.

But it is certainly only going one way.

You should be ashamed at saying WHF should be ashamed at reporting the news.

(But I agree that Bluray wees all over any streaming solution for the moment).

 

[rjb70stoke]

If you think that discs are still the future then you may want to take a peek from under the rock you have been hiding under for sometime now.

The only things holding back the extinction of disc based systems are Internet Bandwith, suitable devices for decoding the content and techniques for delivering the best quality content available, such as uncompressed audio and full HD movies. Once these are available (and it won't be long) the days of popping into HMV etc. will be history.

Take a look at the latest Apple TV, if ALAC was available on iTunes would you need the CD to enjoy the best possible sound? No. If the 1080P movies on offer matched a Blu Ray would you need the disc? No. But you could as a gift hand somebody an iTunes gift card for which they can't just buy the latest tracks, albums, movies they wish for, but also apps and even newer devices to enhance their experience. What will they do with the disc? Rip it then put it up the loft before selling it to Music Magpie, or eBay for a pittance.

Regrettably technology WILL march on and as we've seen with many (great) formats in the past CD's, DVD's and BluRays will become a niche market, possibly even more than Vinyl. Kodak probably thought the same as you about Digital Photography and look where they are now.

 

[lee37]

If you think that discs are still the future then you may want to take a peek from under the rock you have been hiding under for sometime now.

hiding under a rock HA

i can stream all my stuff if i wanted to but i dont.

i have a ps3, 2x xbox 360, 2x sony bdp 380. sony bdp 185, wd live, nds, 4 x wd my passport 500gb, every console in my loft dating back to the commodore 64 ( except the mega drive that was dross).

2 pc which i built myself one is a intel 2700k o/c to 4.2, 16gb ram, 8tb hdd all linked to my ps3 xbox etc

the main reason i dont stream is the fact that the quality is rubbish.

nothing at the moment can beat a 1080p film with true hd soundtrack.

the rest of my stuff i transfer to my wd passport and watch through my blu ray player which is a lot easier and better than streaming.

The only things holding back the extinction of disc based systems are Internet Bandwith

did i not say that is why optical disc which still be made bt is years off bandwith of a 4k film with hd sound especially if everyone want to watch on at 8pm on a saturday, try downloading a 1gb file with decent speed on a saturday at 8pm no chance.

my comments are vaild for now not years in the future with a crystal ball

Take a look at the latest Apple TV, if ALAC was available on iTunes would you need the CD to enjoy the best possible sound? No

maybe not but cd is 30 year old technology at 700mb a disc

If the 1080P movies on offer matched a Blu Ray would you need the disc? No

agreed but that is a few years away and i mean at least 4-5 years

but you could as a gift hand somebody an iTunes gift card for which they can't just buy the latest tracks, albums, movies they wish for, but also apps and even newer devices to enhance their experience

not everyone has itunes, everyone has a cd player

What will they do with the disc? Rip it then put it up the loft before selling it to Music Magpie, or eBay for a pittance.

ripping discs is illegal shame on you, no wonder the cd industry is dead you are killing it

Regrettably technology WILL march on and as we've seen with many (great) formats in the past CD's, DVD's and BluRays will become a niche market, possibly even more than Vinyl.

yes it will march on but you can still and people do still buy vinyl (not me)

you forgot to mention dat, minidisc, betamax, hd dvd

cd are still available and if they didnt sell why would play, amazon and even hmv still sell them and there 30 years old

in 10 years from now streaming may be the norm but until bt get it head into gear and replaces all is current tech no chance in hell

bt infinity would still not be able to cope with people streaming a 40gb blu ray 1080p film with full hd audio, compression is not a compromise and that is about 2 years away in my area

I tend to download albums now. Usually FLAC.

I have a PS3. If the download was the same price, never mind cheaper

yes i download my albums and i transfer to my iphone , i then also write them to a cd to play in my cd player which is a lot better quality than my iphone, i compared them as my amp has a mp in socket also i have a dock conect to my amp and both sounded worse than my cd player, sony es cd player connect to a nad 355e amp via chord chameleon plus cables

You should be ashamed at saying WHF should be ashamed at reporting the news.

at reporting the news no, at them writing a pr news bulliten for samsung new media streamers then yes and speculating that all the optical media will be dead when in fact they are not

 

[rjb70stoke]

ripping discs is illegal shame on you, no wonder the cd industry is dead you are killing it

Just a small point here, I know full well that ripping CD's and not retaining the original disc is illegal and in my comment neither say I practise that or condone it. In fact for all the well pubicised chest beating from Record companies, I'm quite amazed that they allow music magpie to exist at all, because I agree with you, it promotes piracy. Actually I'm not killing the music industry, for my opinion they are doing that quite nicely themselves. Disc (and download) prices are still too high, as shown by the crazy reductions we see just a few weeks after an albums release (when I buy them, after listening first on Spotify). If they started off a third cheaper I'm fairly certain they would sell many more than a third extra. Their other problem was not to embrace the Internet when Napster etc. started up. A spotify like service owned and maintained jointly by the record companies offering quality services would in my opinion have made this discussion about piracy a moot point years ago. The other reason for sales being down may well also be down to the dearth of real talent and originality that exists these days, but thats another discussion for another day. Just out of curiosity, have you tried Apple Lossless files on your iPhone? I find they sound stunning, especially when heard through decent earphones.

 

[manicm]

rjb70stoke - by your logic turntables and vinyl should be dead, and yet they exist. Labels could kill CDs but they haven't. Not everyone has enough affordable bandwidth. Funnily enough people do care about quality, and right now no video streaming compares to the blu-ray disc.

 

[rjb70stoke]

rjb70stoke - by your logic turntables and vinyl should be dead, and yet they exist. Labels could kill CDs but they haven't. Not everyone has enough affordable bandwidth. Funnily enough people do care about quality, and right now no video streaming compares to the blu-ray disc.

If you ask the vast majority of the public, Vinyl has been dead for years. It continues as a reasonably successful niche market, however the perception of most people would be that they remember it fondly from their youth, or they are from the generation that doesn't realise that there used to be an analogue world.

As somebody who has worked in the photographic trade for over 20 years, I well remember having professionals saying they'll never switch to digital from film, especially wedding photographers. Funny how they never come in with their film cameras for service anymore, turns out digital can do the same, and more, with less waste, less time, and the images (not pictures) are just as good, and now better.

All on here know what's happening, the hardware manufacturers know what's happening, but, some people don't / won't accept change. I believe and have seen, most people care about quality, however convenience and style are as important now, and those two factors will determine the rise of streaming and downloads.

I like it no more than anyone on here, but it's here to stay.

 

[lee37]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried Apple Lossless files on your iPhone? I find they sound stunning, especially when heard through decent earphones.

yes but unfortunately my 20 year old cd player that cost £600 and my nad amp when played through my speakers is still better quality, (i dont listen to headphones) the circitry and d/a converters must account for something and i cant see it changing anytime soon. (for me anyway)

dont get me wrong im not slagging of streaming totally, in the future it will be the main souce for games and maybe media in about 10 years.

thats why the next gen ps4 and xbox 720 which have a life span of about 6 years are all being released with optical drive, for the moment its here to stay and then you will have 8k blu ray films requiring even more bandwith.

10 years or so may give enough time for the broadband companies to update all there hardware and get the speeds needed.

and in 15 years when you can download a 8k film onto your ssd credit card with 20tb storage from a cashpoint in 5 secs and plug it straight into your tv then great

The other reason for sales being down may well also be down to the dearth of real talent and originality that exists these days, but thats another discussion for another day

i agree totally they compare sales between 2007 and 2011 but look at all the triple a films released in 2007 and the rubbish that was released in 2011, there was about half as many AAA films no wonder sales are down.

they just look at the figures and them blame piracy what a joke.

i read an article recently that they lost 320m on a film due to people downloading it, but how do they know that everyone that downloaded it would have bought it, i wouldnt because it was garbage i wouldnt even rent it, the same applies to games, music and everything else

its like all the voilence in kids is down to videogames, you dont see 35 years old being violent because they played GTA on there ps1 do you!!! i could rant on for hours LOL

 

[rjb70stoke]

Ha Ha, Thats true, but you dont see gangs of Hare Krishna's trotting along the pavement anymore do you. :rofl:

Loved that game when it came out, top down seemed retro then, let alone now. I never really got into the later games, they didnt have the same fun factor for me.

 

[manicm]

rjb70stoke - has it ever occurred to you that although CDs are in decline they still outsell downloads? That's a fact you conveniently ignore. CD sales are still not that bad to be labelled a 'niche' sector.

 

[lee37]

i just read an article from the bbc jan 2012

"CD album sales fell by 13% to 86.2 million discs

CD download sales were four times that of 2007 to 24.8 million discs

However, shoppers still showed a preference for CDs, buying more than three times the number of albums on disc than downloads.

The BPI said that "physical ownership" still played an important role, but said "a backdrop of chronic piracy" posed risks to the music industry"

so there you go the facts speak for themselves downloads are on the increase but only slowly.

thats why i was having a dig at what hifi the original artile was very misleading when it fact even though sales of physical media was down it was still selling 4 times as much as downloads

so the cd is not dying not yet anyway

 

[lee37]

after reading the original article again who really care about stalwart Linn not making cd players anymore, there are plenty of other big players in the market that are still making them to fill that gap.

cyrus, naim, classe, moon, plinius, marantz etc

not that many people can afford a £3000 cd player

when the big companies stop making cd players then we know the format is dead

for example, SACD, minidisc, dvd audio, DAT, tape

i know a few people still make and support sacd and dvd audio but that is now a niche market as they never really took off even though the quality is excellent and virtually nothing is ever released on those formats

 

[The_Lhc]

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else. Why are you worried? Nobody's stopping you from continuing to buy and play CDs, so what difference does it make?

 

[strapped for cash]

The BPI said that "physical ownership" still played an important role

I agree that "physical ownership" remains an important factor for many consumers, particularly collectors that like to accumulate shiny cases to show off to friends and family.

Collecting is as much about displays of taste as actual use of the items gathered. It's about defining who you are by showcasing your preferences, and this remains an important factor for musos and cinephiles.

Yet convenience is king for other consumers who, as pointed out above, perhaps place less emphasis on quality.

There's no right or wrong here. Both types of consumer are catered for in the current market, and these categories are by no means exclusive.

A vinyl enthusiast might like to show off rare sleeves and album pressings. But this same collector may be just as happy to download films in lesser quality. It's about defining what's most important to you. Trying to predict if or when physical media will be obsolete seems an exercise in futility. Quite frankly, who knows how things will play out.

In short, access your media in the way that suits you best, and accept that everyone else will do the same. As for the rest, time will tell...

 

[rjb70stoke]

rjb70stoke - has it ever occurred to you that although CDs are in decline they still outsell downloads? That's a fact you conveniently ignore. CD sales are still not that bad to be labelled a 'niche' sector.

Are we still talking about the future, or have I mis-typed everything and / or missed something. The fact that I conveniently ignored actually proves what I am saying. CD sales are declining, Fact. Downloads are increasing Fact, in much the same way that 30 years ago the sales of vinyl decreased and sales of CD's increased. The same was also true of VHS and DVD sales. Do you still have a VHS machine?

And if we are talking figures, check out this report (if the link is allowed) http://www.4rfv.co.uk/industrynews.asp?id=141971. Not a renowned site granted, but I have seen the same reports on other sites. The crux being that if the States are switching to streaming in such a big way, quality or not, we WILL follow suit.

I think you have me wrong on all this. I neither wish for or support the idea of CD's or DVD/BluRay dying out, I still buy both, especially 3D Blu Rays. However tech will always move on and I for one will and do embrace it, or we could still buy 78's and play them on an old Gramophone, or go to the cinema to watch Pathe news, or wear red and blue goggles for 3D.

 

[lee37]

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else. Why are you worried?

im not convincing anyone of anything my main point was the original article was misleading saying discs are dying now when they are clearly not.

cd sales are four times higher than download Fact

so cd is not dying not yet anyway, read the rest of what i have said downloads etc will happen just not as quick as the original article was implying.

how can you compare the US to us, they had HD tv 5 years before we did, there broadband cable techonology is at least 10 years ahead of us ( you can blame BT for that)

i prefer quality and the sad thing is there are a lot of muppets out there who will swear that mp3 is better quality than cd just cos there mates say it is and cant make there own mind up.

cd wil die off eventually im not denying that at all, i just think it will take a longer than what people are making out and blu ray/dvd will take a lot longer

and when 4k tv is mainstream in a couple of years and they bring out 4k blu ray which you will not be able to stream due to the bandwith physical media will back as the main usuage ( that is unless people are happy watching a 720p picture on a 4k tv)

 

[satycool]

I do stream and store of HDD/NAS, but if buying I always find physical format a lot more appealing then a bunch of pixels or data sitting on my Ipod/HDD or on PC the screen. I also find browsing through my collection brings curiosity about the movie, artist, label, music that never occur with my media by Digital Streaming or PC/NAS folders - I usually am selectively to what I listen and watch without really acknowledging the mass collection as with Physical Format. They just feel souless/worthless compared to physical as you do not owe anything! The reason I rarely buy download only!...If your collection is clutter, to me mine is art. Its the whole package from the artwork to the info contained and the format itself, and even the case. I do find digital is easily forgetable and just becomes careless clutter data that has a souless empty feeling too. A feeling of ownership, collection, history, memories, curiosity and value for now and future will always be there with physical format - sure I will store them on my pc or nas, but they are nothing compared to having the real thing. Just like books its not same as with a Kindle.

And I find receiving coupons for digital data is cheap lazy and can feel offensive just like email cards!

 

[Anonymous]

time will tell!