Stereo amp advice needed to pair off with Q Acoustics 2050i

[davedotco]

"Tongue in Cheek" ;- Reasonable system :- Turntable £1000 CD Player £1000 Network Audio Player £1000 Amplifier £1000 Speakers £1000 Headphones £1000 !!!! Cables & Mains conditioning!!!! £1000 Total £7000 When my premium Bonds come up I will tell you what I have bought. Paul

Far to much spent on odds and sods.

Rip everything to a NAS drive, buy a Devialet 110 and a pair of Cremona Auditors (while the speakers are still available at a reduced price)

Far more effective way of spending that sort of money....... :cheers:

Nice gear!. Refering to the OP's question I will qualify my original answer in that the Marantz PM6004 works well with the Q Acoustics 2050i's up to 12 0'clock on the volume control with the speakers well away from the corners or walls of a room amout 5 meters by about 4 meters.You can always push the foam bungs in to tighten up the base. Above this it might struggle and in any case would be Just too loud for our terrace house!The Whathifi review of these speakers said that they were too polite for their taste and I understand that comment. My main genres I listen to are jazz, Swing- big band sound, pop/jazz (Caro Emerald ,Amy Winehouse Manhattan Transfer etc.) and Classical (Wagner) & Opera (Puccini).I usually have the volume at just over 9 o,clock and I am very happy with the sound from CD's , Vynil & downloads. If I had a bigger room then one of the bigger Marantz amplifiers with outputs more to the top end of the 25 to 150 watt speaker range say 100 watts per channel would presumably be more suited to the 2050i's or indeed another make of amplifier as you suggest .

Interesting post. Think about it for a moment.

The system goes loud enough but as you say, loses contol of the bass at higher volumes, typical of many budget systems.

You mention a bigger Marantz amplifier (for a larger room) but your existing amp is loud enough in a fairly decent sized room, what you need more of is refinement and contol.

You may get extra watts too, but that is irrelevant in terms of volume, it is all about control. Big band jazz is quite dense, complex stuff, a better amplifier will make it much easier to follow all the individual parts and allow the music to 'swell' and have real presence without sounding in the least bit loud.

Here endeth the lecture, sorry...... :silenced:

 

[Cypher]

But Dave, basically you are telling him there is room for improvement in his setup. I have a budget setup too and I'm perfectly happy with it.

You may think that budget setups are unlistenable but most people are happy with it I think

 

[tonky]

davedotco wrote:

ISAC69 wrote:

If you can sterch your budget the Roksan Kandy K2 will give better results . floorstanders are more demanding than standmounts in terms of power

I don't think the Marantz will fulfil the full potential of the Q Acoustics .

Probably not even close.

In line with my post above the K2 has a suitably large power supply so will not lack power.

I have not heard this particular model but over the years I have usually found Roksan amplifiers a bit forthright and lacking in refinement, that's my taste though. Sensible price so definitely worth a go.. - FROM PREVIOUS POSTS

ME - The earlier Roksan model was (from all accounts) somewhat forthright/bright but the Roksan K2 is a very powerful and well controlled amp - if that's what you are looking for go to richer sounds and compare it to marantz amps in the same price range

Tonky

 

[davedotco]

But Dave, basically you are telling him there is room for improvement in his setup. I have a budget setup too and I'm perfectly happy with it.

You may think that budget setups are unlistenable but most people are happy with it I think

This is a hi-fi forum and people are asking for advice.

I see no reason to recommend mid fi because some people 'are happy with it'.

Every system that I have ever heard is capable of improvement so it makes perfect sense to explain how these improvements can be made.

Happy with what you have? No problem, read the forum for entertainment purposes only.

 

[danbeatles78]

thanks guys for the responses much appreciated and enjoyed reading through and digesting the different opinions

yammy rxv673 does a decent job with music, but i definitely feel something is missing and have done so much reading in the last few days and appreciate opinions can differ to the extreme

was looking on ebay at NAD used amps, as I have read good things and alot of people say they are musical amps

just to also add the Q Acoustics 2050i are amazing speakers, the soundstage is top notch and also playing movies through them is a fantastic experience

these are currently the only speakers i own as i sold all the rest on ebay and wanted to go the Q Acoustics route, but the 2050i's filled the room with ease - amazing!

must admit i've owned marantz before , think it was pm6003 and wasn't overly impressed - abeit with different speakers at the time - bass was overpowering

but i'm open to the possibility it could have been the speakers it was driving.....haha although can't remember if it was Yamaha speakers i was using as iv'e chopped and changed a few times (driving the mrs mad in the meantime)

 

[Broner]

You could also opt for a secondhand amp with more power. NAD also has amps with plenty of power that are sold at reasonable prices.

 

[danbeatles78]

Yeah that's the route I will probably take, even if it's to tide me over until I can get better

 

[Broner]

"Tongue in Cheek" ;- Reasonable system :- Turntable £1000 CD Player £1000 Network Audio Player £1000 Amplifier £1000 Speakers £1000 Headphones £1000 !!!! Cables & Mains conditioning!!!! £1000 Total £7000 When my premium Bonds come up I will tell you what I have bought. Paul

Far to much spent on odds and sods.

Rip everything to a NAS drive, buy a Devialet 110 and a pair of Cremona Auditors (while the speakers are still available at a reduced price)

Far more effective way of spending that sort of money....... :cheers:

Nice gear!. Refering to the OP's question I will qualify my original answer in that the Marantz PM6004 works well with the Q Acoustics 2050i's up to 12 0'clock on the volume control with the speakers well away from the corners or walls of a room amout 5 meters by about 4 meters.You can always push the foam bungs in to tighten up the base. Above this it might struggle and in any case would be Just too loud for our terrace house!The Whathifi review of these speakers said that they were too polite for their taste and I understand that comment. My main genres I listen to are jazz, Swing- big band sound, pop/jazz (Caro Emerald ,Amy Winehouse Manhattan Transfer etc.) and Classical (Wagner) & Opera (Puccini).I usually have the volume at just over 9 o,clock and I am very happy with the sound from CD's , Vynil & downloads. If I had a bigger room then one of the bigger Marantz amplifiers with outputs more to the top end of the 25 to 150 watt speaker range say 100 watts per channel would presumably be more suited to the 2050i's or indeed another make of amplifier as you suggest .

My Tannoy DC6Ts have a lower sensitivity than the Q acoustics, but I'm not sure if I've listened to music with the volume knob of my NAD C356BEE at 12 O'Clock or higher. I know one thing for sure: that is pretty loud.

 

[davedotco]

"Tongue in Cheek" ;- Reasonable system :- Turntable £1000 CD Player £1000 Network Audio Player £1000 Amplifier £1000 Speakers £1000 Headphones £1000 !!!! Cables & Mains conditioning!!!! £1000 Total £7000 When my premium Bonds come up I will tell you what I have bought. Paul

Far to much spent on odds and sods.

Rip everything to a NAS drive, buy a Devialet 110 and a pair of Cremona Auditors (while the speakers are still available at a reduced price)

Far more effective way of spending that sort of money....... :cheers:

Nice gear!. Refering to the OP's question I will qualify my original answer in that the Marantz PM6004 works well with the Q Acoustics 2050i's up to 12 0'clock on the volume control with the speakers well away from the corners or walls of a room amout 5 meters by about 4 meters.You can always push the foam bungs in to tighten up the base. Above this it might struggle and in any case would be Just too loud for our terrace house!The Whathifi review of these speakers said that they were too polite for their taste and I understand that comment. My main genres I listen to are jazz, Swing- big band sound, pop/jazz (Caro Emerald ,Amy Winehouse Manhattan Transfer etc.) and Classical (Wagner) & Opera (Puccini).I usually have the volume at just over 9 o,clock and I am very happy with the sound from CD's , Vynil & downloads. If I had a bigger room then one of the bigger Marantz amplifiers with outputs more to the top end of the 25 to 150 watt speaker range say 100 watts per channel would presumably be more suited to the 2050i's or indeed another make of amplifier as you suggest .

My Tannoy DC6Ts have a lower sensitivity than the Q acoustics, but I'm not sure if I've listened to music with the volume knob of my NAD C356BEE at 12 O'Clock or higher. I know one thing for sure: that is pretty loud.

Broner, we have been through this many times before, the setting on the volume control is no indicator of the power the amplifier is delivering, none at all. Two thoughts for you, just two, its siesta time......

A lot of modern amplifiers have volume controls that 'get loud' very quickly, it is to impress the uninformed. The realisation that turning it up beyond (say) 12 o'clock sounds awful as the amplifier is in hard clip comes much later.

Your ears react in a strange way, they equate distortion with percieved volume. The more (harmonic) distortion the louder it sounds, this is why a 50 watt guitar amp can sound so incredibly loud, even in a large venue.

If a budget hi-fi system sounds really loud, it is almost certainly being overdriven. Good systems rarely sound loud until you walk out of the listening room and realise that you are disturbing the neighbours in the next street.

 

[Broner]

I know that the volume or loudness that I perceive with the knob at e.g. 9 O'clock is no indicator of power, so it is beyond me why I wrote what I wrote.

 

[BigH]

If you can sterch your budget the Roksan Kandy K2 will give better results . floorstanders are more demanding than standmounts in terms of power

I don't think the Marantz will fulfil the full potential of the Q Acoustics .

Is that right, I thought the floorstanders were generally more sensitive so would be less demanding?

 

[ISAC69]

Sensitivity is only one part of the whole picture , Usually floorstanders demands more power so for a low budget system it is better to use standmounts that can be move quite well even with modest power amps .

 

[ISAC69]

"Tongue in Cheek" ;- Reasonable system :- Turntable £1000 CD Player £1000 Network Audio Player £1000 Amplifier £1000 Speakers £1000 Headphones £1000 !!!! Cables & Mains conditioning!!!! £1000 Total £7000 When my premium Bonds come up I will tell you what I have bought. Paul

Far to much spent on odds and sods.

Rip everything to a NAS drive, buy a Devialet 110 and a pair of Cremona Auditors (while the speakers are still available at a reduced price)

Far more effective way of spending that sort of money....... :cheers:

Nice gear!. Refering to the OP's question I will qualify my original answer in that the Marantz PM6004 works well with the Q Acoustics 2050i's up to 12 0'clock on the volume control with the speakers well away from the corners or walls of a room amout 5 meters by about 4 meters.You can always push the foam bungs in to tighten up the base. Above this it might struggle and in any case would be Just too loud for our terrace house!The Whathifi review of these speakers said that they were too polite for their taste and I understand that comment. My main genres I listen to are jazz, Swing- big band sound, pop/jazz (Caro Emerald ,Amy Winehouse Manhattan Transfer etc.) and Classical (Wagner) & Opera (Puccini).I usually have the volume at just over 9 o,clock and I am very happy with the sound from CD's , Vynil & downloads. If I had a bigger room then one of the bigger Marantz amplifiers with outputs more to the top end of the 25 to 150 watt speaker range say 100 watts per channel would presumably be more suited to the 2050i's or indeed another make of amplifier as you suggest .

My Tannoy DC6Ts have a lower sensitivity than the Q acoustics, but I'm not sure if I've listened to music with the volume knob of my NAD C356BEE at 12 O'Clock or higher. I know one thing for sure: that is pretty loud.

Broner, we have been through this many times before, the setting on the volume control is no indicator of the power the amplifier is delivering, none at all. Two thoughts for you, just two, its siesta time......

A lot of modern amplifiers have volume controls that 'get loud' very quickly, it is to impress the uninformed. The realisation that turning it up beyond (say) 12 o'clock sounds awful as the amplifier is in hard clip comes much later.

Your ears react in a strange way, they equate distortion with percieved volume. The more (harmonic) distortion the louder it sounds, this is why a 50 watt guitar amp can sound so incredibly loud, even in a large venue.

If a budget hi-fi system sounds really loud, it is almost certainly being overdriven. Good systems rarely sound loud until you walk out of the listening room and realise that you are disturbing the neighbours in the next street.

:cheers:

 

[ISAC69]

^

:read:

 

[audioaddict]

as many people have said before more wats mean better control not volume

 

[PAULCHRISTOPHER]

From comments made on this thread I believe my amplifier may be underpowered for my speakers as in my signature.
OK I accept the argument and obviously ideally need a Marantz K1 Perlite or a Roksan Kandy K2 or something of this ilk eventually. I think my next upgrade will be my turntable however. If the above point is widely accepted why is whathifi coming up with following in its review of the PM6004?
"Works a treat with its partnering CD player
While the PM6004 is flexible enough to be partnered with other, non-Marantz electronics, as a pair they pull in the same sonic direction, and the resulting presentation is as fast-paced, detailed and dynamic as you could possibly hope for from a hi-fi pairing at this end of the market.

Add a pair of Tannoy Revolution DC6 T floorstanders (£800) and you’ll be especially happy, but B&W’s 685s (£380) or KEF’s Q300s (£450), both standmounted designs, are also highly recommended partners for what is a simply superb, affordable, hi-fi separates system. "
The DC6 t's have a power rating of up to 350 watts I believe. Surely the 45watts of the PM6004 would not be enough to drive them to their full potential. My Q A 2500i's are only up to 150 watts.

 

[Cypher]

Paul, if you like the sound of your system, why upgrade ? The PM6004 is a very nice amp and you can always upgrade later if you want.

Just enjoy your music

 

[davedotco]

Paul, if you like the sound of your system, why upgrade ? The PM6004 is a very nice amp and you can always upgrade later if you want.

Just enjoy your music

Absolutely agree, if your system is working well and giving you what you want, don't mess with it......

That is the straightforward 'music lovers' approach and has much to commend it.

If on the other hand you come onto a hi-fi forum and discuss your system and possible upgrades then, by definition, people are going to analyse your system, point out possible 'weak' spots and suggest improvements.

Much of the advice you will get will come from those who, by and large, follow the forum line and recommend all the 'usual' suspects but from time to time you will get 'advice' from people who simply think and believe differently.

Mostly I find myself in the second category and on this occasion I think the single biggest upgrade you could make is to replace your amplifier with a 'better' one, not necessarily more powerful, on paper anyway, but one that handles the requirements of playing real music with both grace and energy as required.

I have already suggested you investigate the Creek 50a, the Croft integrated and, budget permitting, the baby Sugden, all amplifiers that will, in my experience, lift your system to another level.

If you are interested in these options you have to make an effort, you are not going to find them in your local Richers or Sevenoaks which is why so few people have any idea of what they are capable of.

Appologies for the lecture and the 'know it all' attitude but i believe that their is a whole world of superior product out there, beyond the usual round of 5* favourites that, for the enthusiast, offers a completely different and superior level of musical enjoyment.

 

[PAULCHRISTOPHER]

Paul, if you like the sound of your system, why upgrade ? The PM6004 is a very nice amp and you can always upgrade later if you want.

Just enjoy your music

Absolutely agree, if your system is working well and giving you what you want, don't mess with it......

That is the straightforward 'music lovers' approach and has much to commend it.

If on the other hand you come onto a hi-fi forum and discuss your system and possible upgrades then, by definition, people are going to analyse your system, point out possible 'weak' spots and suggest improvements.

Much of the advice you will get will come from those who, by and large, follow the forum line and recommend all the 'usual' suspects but from time to time you will get 'advice' from people who simply think and believe differently.

Mostly I find myself in the second category and on this occasion I think the single biggest upgrade you could make is to replace your amplifier with a 'better' one, not necessarily more powerful, on paper anyway, but one that handles the requirements of playing real music with both grace and energy as required.

I have already suggested you investigate the Creek 50a, the Croft integrated and, budget permitting, the baby Sugden, all amplifiers that will, in my experience, lift your system to another level.

If you are interested in these options you have to make an effort, you are not going to find them in your local Richers or Sevenoaks which is why so few people have any idea of what they are capable of.

Appologies for the lecture and the 'know it all' attitude but i believe that their is a whole world of superior product out there, beyond the usual round of 5* favourites that, for the enthusiast, offers a completely different and superior level of musical enjoyment.

No need to apologise. I suppose a bigger amplifier is like having a bigger engine in your car. The bigger engine is far more useful even if you stick to the speed limits. I was just wondering why our hosts first speaker they mention is a floor stander with range up to 350 watts to be used with an amplifier of 45 watts per channel but it is probably wise to leave it there. I know who is right.;I have said that hi-fi is not my main hobby but I have definately got the bug. In an old post I mentioned that I started in the 1960's with a valve stereo amplifier, a turntable and home made speaker cabinets. The wooferswere 12inch and the tweeters 1inch and I made the crossovers myself. However the rating of the amplifier exceeded the rating of the speakers and one afternoon me and my brother were listening to his album "Deep Purple in Rock" at high volume when the left woofer blew up with a bang and a flash. So I have moved on just a bit since then!

Regards

Paul

 

[davedotco]

Paul, if you like the sound of your system, why upgrade ? The PM6004 is a very nice amp and you can always upgrade later if you want.

Just enjoy your music

Absolutely agree, if your system is working well and giving you what you want, don't mess with it......

That is the straightforward 'music lovers' approach and has much to commend it.

If on the other hand you come onto a hi-fi forum and discuss your system and possible upgrades then, by definition, people are going to analyse your system, point out possible 'weak' spots and suggest improvements.

Much of the advice you will get will come from those who, by and large, follow the forum line and recommend all the 'usual' suspects but from time to time you will get 'advice' from people who simply think and believe differently.

Mostly I find myself in the second category and on this occasion I think the single biggest upgrade you could make is to replace your amplifier with a 'better' one, not necessarily more powerful, on paper anyway, but one that handles the requirements of playing real music with both grace and energy as required.

I have already suggested you investigate the Creek 50a, the Croft integrated and, budget permitting, the baby Sugden, all amplifiers that will, in my experience, lift your system to another level.

If you are interested in these options you have to make an effort, you are not going to find them in your local Richers or Sevenoaks which is why so few people have any idea of what they are capable of.

Appologies for the lecture and the 'know it all' attitude but i believe that their is a whole world of superior product out there, beyond the usual round of 5* favourites that, for the enthusiast, offers a completely different and superior level of musical enjoyment.

No need to apologise. I suppose a bigger amplifier is like having a bigger engine in your car. The bigger engine is far more useful even if you stick to the speed limits. I was just wondering why our hosts first speaker they mention is a floor stander with range up to 350 watts to be used with an amplifier of 45 watts per channel but it is probably wise to leave it there. I know who is right.;I have said that hi-fi is not my main hobby but I have definately got the bug. In an old post I mentioned that I started in the 1960's with a valve stereo amplifier, a turntable and home made speaker cabinets. The wooferswere 12inch and the tweeters 1inch and I made the crossovers myself. However the rating of the amplifier exceeded the rating of the speakers and one afternoon me and my brother were listening to his album "Deep Purple in Rock" at high volume when the left woofer blew up with a bang and a flash. So I have moved on just a bit since then!

Regards

Paul

To continue the car analogy, it isn't just the size amd BHP of the engine (the rated power in hi-fi terms) that matters, refinement, sophistication, build quality and the rest all come into it.

None of the amplifiers I mention are significantly more powerful than 45 watts but the way they actually play music is in a different league, if you are at all interested I urge you to try them out.

I used to love building my own speakers, in my case I started with an 8 inch twin cone to which I later added a cone tweeter with a single capacitor as crossover and finished with my own active bi-amp version of the JBL 4320 series studio monitors. State of the art, in 1975.......

 

[gurjitsidhu]

firstly, congratulations on purchasing some great speakers!
I also have mine running with a Yamaha 673 in bi amp mode and it sounds very good.

I demod the pm6004 and i'll tell you now that I found it was struggling to power the 2050i compared to the AS500 amp so i went for an AS500 amp. my as500 is now powering b and w 684 speakers.

the point I would like to make is i dont think you will notice any improvement from going to the pm6004 over your curent setup

 

[audioaddict]

your amps not under powered .............when whf reviewed your speakers they recommended using rotel ra 10 which is a 40 watter plus also my tiny 603 powers my 84db cm1s :rockout:

 

[davedotco]

your amps not under powered .............when whf reviewed your speakers they recommended using rotel ra 10 which is a 40 watter plus also my tiny 603 powers my 84db cm1s :rockout:

Fair enough, but.......

Is the concept that a better amplifier (not necessarily more powerful) will produce a better sound and that some people will think it more than worthwhile somehow difficult to understand....... :?

No body is forcing anyone to buy anything, the OP asked for advice and advice was given along with an explanation of why those particularly products were recommended.

And somehow this is wrong........ :doh:

 

[PAULCHRISTOPHER]

I think that this has been mentioned before on this forum but budget amplifiers such as the PM6004 (High end Marantz about £2500 "Mid end" about £800 to £1200) are priced like basic Ford Fiesta's. That is the Titanium version might cost nearly twice as much but it doesn't IMHO have twice the value as Ford will make much more on a titanium version pro rata than a basic car. So again IMHO a budget amplifier that has it has to compete with other budget amplifiers which are usually bought by people who may have less knowledge of the hi-fi subject (like me) than pure audiophiles provide better value for money than more refined products which usually come at a premium. We all know that in most cases spending more money can provide a better SQ but if you don't demo or are unable to demo than you could spend a lot of money for an inferior sound. I played a few of my test tracks today at the highest volume my wife could stand!. Copeland's Fanfare for the common man (HMV Classics CD, DDD) was superb. It would be interesting to hear this on better equipment. JS Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor ,Great Organ Works,Carlo Curley, Decca CD DDD) is guaranteed to find anything loose in the room! There was a slight overblown bass in the right channel but that speaker is too near a corner of the room. Sorry to go on but you can see that I am happy with my setup for now. I have spent about £1500 on it so far (excluding pre -existing turntable) so not so bad.

 

[audioaddict]

.......ive stated a few time now that my previous system was very expensive and i wasnt happy and now ive found a much cheaper system and just happen to be happier ........the op could try ten amps and the cheapest one could be the one he prefered ..hifi is a funny ol thing