Specific Amp for KEF LS50s

[antskip]

I've been driving my 50's with the UnitiQute2 for about 6 months now and love it. I know...I know...they recommend more power, but the combination has been terrific for me, plus I get the connectivty I need. For reference, I've used Parasound, NAD, Bel Canto, Van Alstine, Vincent Audio and a kit tube amp with them and so far I'm happiest with the little Qute2.

It is amazing that the LS50's can satisfy with much less then ideal gear! I found similar with the Rega Brio-R. They do provide a little more power than the Uniqute2 , but it took more than a year before I felt limited. Until then I was in heaven every day with the LS50's and the Brio-R (and some care with cables and the power supply!). Now I have the Rega Elex-R the LS50's are giving a new world of music I didn't have before. Every CD demands a re-listen. Actually, it is like having a new collection of CD's! The LS50's are truly amazing speakers! I think in the Rega line the next machine up from the Elex-R, the Elicit-R, would finally produce the utlimate LS50 sound - but that is also a whole new level of cost! For me, for now, the Elex-R and the LS50's are a delicious matching.

 

[davedotco]

I told you......

Currently using an A19 with Kef LS50. Generally sounds very good, plenty of power in the A19 to drive the speakers. Sound quality doesn't change too much at high or low volumes. Very detailed combo and not too warm or not too bright. The problem for me is the sound is too refined and smooth bordering on dull. Great with acoustic or slower paced music but lacks excitement with rock,metal or electronic. It's not too bad but could be better I felt.

I too decided on an Elex r. Demo was very positive, retained the positives of the A19, soundstage, detail etc, but with much more bass weight and better punch. I wouldn't rule out a Brio r demo either, I enjoyed the demo and nicely within your budget too.

Just as Thompson predicted.

Have you tried overdriving the pre-amp?

*lol*

Anyone who does a bit of proper research knows the LS50s are regarded as needing a powerful amp to drive them well, I had been well warned of this in advance. The A19 does work well enough with them however, it would suit most people who hear it perfectly. The lack of punch and excitement also came through using the A19 with B&W 685 S2s which shouldn't be difficult speakers to drive. A Rega brio r demo gave the LS50s the extra lift that I was looking for despite it only being as powerful if not less so than the A19. Probably just coming down to a personal preference thing. How difficult the LS50s are to drive is being very exaggerated in my opinion having heard them with several amps during demos. Sure, maybe electronically they are not being driven to full potential, but if it sounds nice to the listener it sounds nice. When somebody doesn't like the sound of their amp with the LS50s, it might just be a personal preference thing and not because they blindly bought 5 star products without any thought or research. Demo and trust your own ears, advice regularly given on here.

It was a joke that was sort of transfered from another thread, perhaps the transfer was not effective.....*unknw*

I simply refered to the fact that a lot of modern amplifiers are deliberately voiced to sound loud and impressive, this is particularly effective on a lot of up tempo rock music.

The Arcam A19 does not do that, you are probably getting a more accurate portrayal of the music as recorded, which may or may not be to your taste.

In general terms I agree that the LS50 is not that difficult to drive, though it does improve with better amplification. To be honest it is pretty much the same as most quality compacts at a comparable price. They all respond by simply getting better and better as the quality of the signal and the amplification gets better. The control that better amplification brings to such speakers can be surprising.

The modern trend of spending more on the speakers means that a lot of very good compact speakers are never heard at their best, it is only a handful of speakers that, because of their 'difficult reputation' get to be heard driven by better amplifiers.

 

[Fujee]

Which is why I am going for the Rega Elex R instead of the Arcam. The Rega is of a calibre similar to the KEFs if the qualities are relatable. It looks beautiful.

 

[davedotco]

Which is why I am going for the Rega Elex R instead of the Arcam. The Rega is of a calibre similar to the KEFs if the qualities are relatable. It looks beautiful.

Rega amplifiers have always had a sharper, more focussed sound than many other models. This may well give the 'edge' required for a lot of uptempo rock and similar material.

I am not that up to speed with the latest Rega models, but the older versions of the Brio and Elicit were certainly 'exciting', I spend quite a lot of time with them.

 

[Fujee]

Thing is, I heard while the KEFs are initially bright they do mellow, and I was anticipating the Rega will give it that bite well into middle age and beyond..

 

[davedotco]

Thing is, I heard while the KEFs are initially bright they do mellow, and I was anticipating the Rega will give it that bite well into middle age and beyond..

It is probably your ears that do the mellowing but if the modern rega amplifiers are anything like the ones I have used, then they will certainly 'bite' through a speaker as transparent as the LS50.

BTW what source are you using?

 

[plastic penguin]

Thing is, I heard while the KEFs are initially bright they do mellow, and I was anticipating the Rega will give it that bite well into middle age and beyond..

I'm sure the Rega is everything the review says. That, however, doesn't guarantee it being right for your ears and system. I've always found Arcams slightly laid back sig to be great for long sessions.

Great synergy = fabulous system, not reviews.

 

[Vladimir]

Is Chris hearing the extra 22Wpc in the Rega (72Wpc) as extra punch over the Arcam (50Wpc), or is it the input sensitivity of 164mV versus 1V that gives "the edge"?

And yes please. Lets "voice" the system with some cables.

 

[antskip]

Thing is, I heard while the KEFs are initially bright they do mellow, and I was anticipating the Rega will give it that bite well into middle age and beyond..

If you want to bring in a bit more "dark" to the Kef LS50 plus Rega Brio-R or Elex-R relationship, then one way is to replace the default power cable with a better one - e.g. Rega's very own "Reference Mains Power Lead" (with specific plug for US, UK, Europe, Switzerland or Australia). For me, this gave an immediate "darkening" / enriching of the LS50 sound. I also experimented with different speaker cables and interconnects. The LS50's respond readily to component change. Part and parcel of being so sensitive / transparent / honest.

I agree with Plastic Penguin's comment that LS50's are perhaps not such good "laid back" speakers - I guess one cannot have it both ways...?

 

[drummerman]

Is Chris hearing the extra 22Wpc in the Rega (72Wpc) as extra punch over the Arcam (50Wpc), or is it the input sensitivity of 164mV versus 1V that gives "the edge"?

And yes please. Lets "voice" the system with some cables.

One of the most enjoyable sessions I had was with a Naim system. I admit that the 'up and go' energetic presentation tickles my fancy. Perhaps one of the reasons I like cyrus too.

If it takes a little overload to achieve this 'musicality' as opposed to a more laid back approach, then thats fine by me.

I will, over the weekend, try out the input sensitivity adjustment on the cyrus and see what difference it makes.

regards

 

[Vladimir]

Is Chris hearing the extra 22Wpc in the Rega (72Wpc) as extra punch over the Arcam (50Wpc), or is it the input sensitivity of 164mV versus 1V that gives "the edge"?

And yes please. Lets "voice" the system with some cables.

One of the most enjoyable sessions I had was with a Naim system. I admit that the 'up and go' energetic presentation tickles my fancy. Perhaps one of the reasons I like cyrus too.

If it takes a little overload to achieve this 'musicality' as opposed to a more laid back approach, then thats fine by me.

I will, over the weekend, try out the input sensitivity adjustment on the cyrus and see what difference it makes.

regards

I sympathize with your experience.

I was most happy when I was in early 20s, had 2 pairs of Cerwin Vega AT-12s, a Pioneer DJ mixer, two Technics SL1200mkII, two Denon DJ CD players, various japanese amps, everything connected in a rented 100 sq. ft. room. At that age I couldn't sleep more than 8 hours per week.

Now at 31, already an old git.

 

[davedotco]

Is Chris hearing the extra 22Wpc in the Rega (72Wpc) as extra punch over the Arcam (50Wpc), or is it the input sensitivity of 164mV versus 1V that gives "the edge"?

And yes please. Lets "voice" the system with some cables.

One of the most enjoyable sessions I had was with a Naim system. I admit that the 'up and go' energetic presentation tickles my fancy. Perhaps one of the reasons I like cyrus too.

If it takes a little overload to achieve this 'musicality' as opposed to a more laid back approach, then thats fine by me.

I will, over the weekend, try out the input sensitivity adjustment on the cyrus and see what difference it makes.

regards

i don't think anyone is suggesting that it is somehow 'wrong' to like a bit of excitement in your music, just that if you have some idea of how that 'excitement' is achieved, then you can bring a more selective approach to selecting your equipment and, should your requirements change, have a better understanding of the changes you need to make.

Clearly some manufacturers go to extremes with their 'voicing' of their amplifiers and we have a thread that highlights some of the pitfalls that occur when this happens, any enthusiast reading and digesting these threads may well find them helpful.

 

[Fujee]

Interesting, though 100 pounds for a mains cable is steep.. I can understand spending that cash on speaker cables but is the mains cable with the amp all that bad to begin with? I will keep it in mind.

As for my ears mellowing, I think I need to still be a bit careful brightness wise as I am only 23 currently, but then again I really like the sound of Grado headphones, so brightness might not be a huge issue.

Anyone know of any decent DACs which would compliment this amp and speaker combo? I am pretty interested in the Rega CDP and the DAC tbh.

 

[davedotco]

Interesting, though 100 pounds for a mains cable is steep.. I can understand spending that cash on speaker cables but is the mains cable with the amp all that bad to begin with? I will keep it in mind.

As for my ears mellowing, I think I need to still be a bit careful brightness wise as I am only 23 currently, but then again I really like the sound of Grado headphones, so brightness might not be a huge issue.

Anyone know of any decent DACs which would compliment this amp and speaker combo? I am pretty interested in the Rega CDP and the DAC tbh.

Rega's digital components tend to be voiced towards warmth and an 'analogue' sound. Given that Rega's record players are quite dark, this helps maintain consistency within their systems. This is particularly noticeable at the lower end of the range.

Compedent dacs really should all sound the same, some minor variations from the more unusual filter topologies, but that is about all.

But, as we all know they don't, once again delberate voicing is used to make the dac confirm to the designers whims or to a particular 'house' sound.

 

[ChrisIRL]

Is Chris hearing the extra 22Wpc in the Rega (72Wpc) as extra punch over the Arcam (50Wpc), or is it the input sensitivity of 164mV versus 1V that gives "the edge"?

And yes please. Lets "voice" the system with some cables.

Hearing extra punch with the Rega Brio r which is only 50wpc, the same as the A19. Any idea of the input sensitivity difference between the Brio and A19?

 

[davedotco]

The Rega Brio-R has a sensitivity of 210mV, the Arcam 900mV. Big difference.

There are two factors at play here that have been discussed, mainly in the 'How loud......' thread.

Digital sources output 2 volts, amplifiers with high sensitivity inputs, such as the Rega, will be driven hard by this.

This causes the amplifier to 'get loud' very quickly, cramping the range on the volume control, making small volume adjustments virtually impossible and operating in a range where channel imbalance is often an issue. This may make the amplifier seem very powerful but full output power is reached very early, usually before 12 o'clock.

This in itself is really only a matter of convenience and some users will be more bothered by it than others, but that is not the whole story.

There appears to be some correlation between high input sensitivity amplifiers and the kind of driving, exciting sound much loved by many audiophiles. The suggestion is that the input section of the amplifier is being driven very hard, maybe even over driven and that this is responsible for the characteristic sound of this type of amplifier.

Amplifiers with much lower sensitivities, such as the Arcam, do not suffer from these issues and produce a more refined 'laid back' sound that might be more accurate to the original recording, but lacks excitement.

 

[Vladimir]

There appears to be some correlation between high input sensitivity amplifiers and the kind of driving, exciting sound much loved by many audiophiles. The suggestion is that the input section of the amplifier is being driven very hard, maybe even over driven and that this is responsible for the characteristic sound of this type of amplifier.

Amplifiers with much lower sensitivities, such as the Arcam, do not suffer from these issues and produce a more refined 'laid back' sound that might be more accurate to the original recording, but lacks excitement.

My reply in the other thread so we don't derail this one. Clicky

 

[Fujee]

Well I went in to demo the Elex R and I absolutely loved it. Think I have chosen my amp!

 

[antskip]

Interesting, though 100 pounds for a mains cable is steep.. I can understand spending that cash on speaker cables but is the mains cable with the amp all that bad to begin with?

That's what I felt until I took advice and bought a pair of 100 pound mains cables to replace the stock cables for the Rega amp and cd player. The change was like 25% better, to my ears. No downside. Money very well spent, I thought. Then I got an electricain to make the mains a dedicated line to its own fuse - another 25% improvement (subjectively speaking!). When I then upgraded from Brio-R to the Elex-R it was another 100% improvement - but at a much higher price, of course. Gradually the amazing LS50's are nearing their potential...

 

[Esra]

Interesting, though 100 pounds for a mains cable is steep.. I can understand spending that cash on speaker cables but is the mains cable with the amp all that bad to begin with?

That's what I felt until I took advice and bought a pair of 100 pound mains cables to replace the stock cables for the Rega amp and cd player. The change was like 25% better, to my ears. No downside. Money very well spent, I thought. Then I got an electricain to make the mains a dedicated line to its own fuse - another 25% improvement (subjectively speaking!). When I then upgraded from Brio-R to the Elex-R it was another 100% improvement - but at a much higher price, of course. Gradually the amazing LS50's are nearing their potential...

Wow a total of 150% improvement,subjectively.Objectively your prior System must have sound really sh***?I believe your system sounds now a lot better due to your better amp with more omph.

 

[antskip]

[/quote] Wow a total of 150% improvement,subjectively.Objectively your prior System must have sound really sh***?I believe your system sounds now a lot better due to your better amp with more omph.[/quote]

No, I began with LS50's and a stock Brio-R. They made a beautiful sound. That sound improved further by replacing the stock mains cables; further still by separating the power supply to reduce interference. Finally I replaced the Brio-R with an Elex-R. At no stage was it sh***.

 

[Fujee]

Where did you purchase those mains cables from out of interest?

 

[occamsrazor]

No, I began with LS50's and a stock Brio-R. They made a beautiful sound. That sound improved further by replacing the stock mains cables; further still by separating the power supply to reduce interference. Finally I replaced the Brio-R with an Elex-R. At no stage was it sh***.

Would you mind commenting in a bit more detail on the differences between the Brio and Elex? Thanks...

 

[Fujee]

The guys at the store I demoed at said the Elex is far more powerful than it is officially rated, the same goes for most of Naim and Rega apparently.. not too sure if that is true but wouldn't be surprised.

 

[antskip]

Where did you purchase those mains cables from out of interest?

Carlton Audio Visual in Melbourne. They ordered them in from the local Rega supplier.