Speakers - is there always a compromise?

[Pickledonion]

Can you have it all (or as near as damn it) on a working man's budget? I've gone through speakers like they were about to go out of production the last couple of years (since the kids have stopped trying to demolish them). All of them have been rather modest affairs. 684s had great mids (sort of) which really brought out vocals enough to make you stop whatever you are doing and pay attention. My wife adored them, but it was all a bit too much sometimes. All the finer detail and definition was lost at the bottom end. Epos m15.2 absolutely amazing rhythm and timing, but insubstantial bass. B&W p5 were a big let down. Fantastic kick in the balls for rock fans, but very dead otherwise. Goes to show how memory can deceive. Boomy as hell. Spent hours making bass traps etc, but to no avail- shows what difference the box makes (same drivers as matrix but I presume matrix sound like a completely different fish). Kef q55 - not actually so bad when they didn't rattle - so badly made. Q500 not much better. The list goes on. And then celestion a2.. Still being surprised track after track. They have taken a LOT of messing about with room treatment and propping them to bring the tweeter on axis, but make a pretty decent job of whatever I give them. I can't imagine doing better this side of a grand.

Will I ever reach the promised land on a modest budget?

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi-fi is always a compromise. We all try and reach the Holy Grail but the closest one can get is a happy compromise, regardless of budget.

 

[JMacMan]

Hi-fi is always a compromise. We all try and reach the Holy Grail but the closest one can get is a happy compromise, regardless of budget.

Very true.

With entry level kit, the compromises are mostly with the kit - at the costlier end of the spectrum, the compromises are mostly with ones wallet - albeit the law of diminishing returns kicks in especially with electronics, less so with speakers.

Think about what you are trying to achieve.

The closest approach to the original sound, or a sonic flavour that strongly appeals just to you.

For the former, active is a generally an upfront rather expensive, but ulitmately very satisfying and balanced way to go, and with the latter mix and match away to your hearts content - be aware though that mixing and matching to try and achieve a sonic flavour, or your concept of the 'closest approach to the original sound', is a journey that's likely to be much more ruinous on your wallet than the upfront initial high cost of entry to go to a fully matched active system.

Happy New Year to All

JMac

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Damn. Post gone. Breifly - the room will always set a limit to any system.

 

[Pickledonion]

Yes. I have found room treatment to be the most cost effective upgrade there is. There really is no need to spend a fortune on the studio foams. With a bit of reading up on the subject and a few hours in the garage (or kitchen floor if 'the boss' is reasonably tolerant), a few quids worth of materials can make a massive difference. I reinstated my home made bass traps last night after rescuing them from a pile of stuff ready to go to the tip. I can't remember why I decided to get rid (oh yes I can- they look 'untidy' apparently).

 

[Ambrose]

Can you have it all (or as near as damn it) on a working man's budget? I've gone through speakers like they were about to go out of production the last couple of years (since the kids have stopped trying to demolish them). All of them have been rather modest affairs. 684s had great mids (sort of) which really brought out vocals enough to make you stop whatever you are doing and pay attention. My wife adored them, but it was all a bit too much sometimes. All the finer detail and definition was lost at the bottom end. Epos m15.2 absolutely amazing rhythm and timing, but insubstantial bass. B&W p5 were a big let down. Fantastic kick in the balls for rock fans, but very dead otherwise. Goes to show how memory can deceive. Boomy as hell. Spent hours making bass traps etc, but to no avail- shows what difference the box makes (same drivers as matrix but I presume matrix sound like a completely different fish). Kef q55 - not actually so bad when they didn't rattle - so badly made. Q500 not much better. The list goes on. And then celestion a2.. Still being surprised track after track. They have taken a LOT of messing about with room treatment and propping them to bring the tweeter on axis, but make a pretty decent job of whatever I give them. I can't imagine doing better this side of a grand. Will I ever reach the promised land on a modest budget?

This is an interesting one and guess there is always a compromise, although more budget will achieve something closer to what you want.

Maybe something like used Neat Motive 2 which are supposed to have the benefits of standmounts and floorstanding speakers without the negatives. My Motives 3 are very very good indeed and would love to try out motive 2s but cannot use floorstanders.

Epos ES 14???

Just a couple of ideas

Ambrose

 

[Covenanter]

These things are partly a matter of taste. My Q500s are great in my opinion but if you don't like them that's fine too. I listened to some Dali's and thought they were poor and MAs I thought were ok on rock but poor on classical (but got better the more you spent). Others like these speakers.

Chris

 

[Pickledonion]

I think my next inexpensive upgrade will be to have my ears syringed (or irrigated as I think they call it now) -seriously. Of course, I may not like the results. I will report back if or when I have had it done! (I'm not posting any pictures).

 

[Superaintit]

There is always a compromise to be made. Tell me about it...been through 3 different amps, 2 dacs, heard at least 10 different makes of speaker.

Finally found what I was looking for: active speakers. Just like stated earlier, what kind of sound you like is most important.

IME spending most on speakers gives the best result and speaker price point of 1500- 2000 is most value for money. PMC gb1i is one of my personal favorites of passive speakers. Db1 will probably carry those same traits. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Pickledonion]

Superaintit - which active speakers did you buy? I keep thinking I need to explore the active route, if or when I can get a more serious amount of money together.

 

[Superaintit]

Superaintit - which active speakers did you buy? I keep thinking I need to explore the active route, if or when I can get a more serious amount of money together.

I chose Beolab 9; mainly because of their sound signature, looks and ease of integrating in an airplay & dnla setup. It was a bit expensive, but hassle free and enjoying them daily now.

EDIT: pmc do also have speakers with built in amplification. Might be well worth auditioning. Also Dynaudio 110A is very good value for money IMO. The Dynaudios are a bit *dark* in presentation; I expect the pmc to sound clearer, given it's sound signature as a passive speaker. Just audition and see what you like.

 

[Rethep]

It could be that you are looking for the real thing now: a tube-amp, instead of changing speakers again and again.

 

[Anonymous]

I would say its more about discovering what you like as you've probably not heard what you like. So we keep searching for something we like more. I think you can be perfectly happy on a small budget if it makes you smile. The problem with hifi, is you find ways to scratch away more of what you like and more what you don't . hifi is so accessible to us all.

There is no perfect system, becuase even if it were, you still may want more bass, or clearer vocals etc. Hence Gigs even have PA systems to "optimise" the sound.

 

[Pickledonion]

I wonder if maybe it's the thrill of the chase perhaps? One day I may settle down (still talking speakers here, incase my wife picks up my phone and reads this). I think there's always a compromise, at any budget. Anyone that disagrees surely won't be reading this, having reached the promised land?

 

[Overdose]

Superaintit - which active speakers did you buy? I keep thinking I need to explore the active route, if or when I can get a more serious amount of money together.

Active speakers come in a wide range of prices, but the choices are more varied if you look at the pro audio market. Home audio actives are generally thin on the ground and relatively expensive though, but there are a few exceptions.

If you are going with a typical active speaker set up, ie withouth integrated preamp and DAC, then you will need some form of preamp. Some actives are available that have a DAC/preamp integral in the design.