Speakers for Marantz M-CR610.

[matthewpiano]

Morning Dave.

Actually it was you 'banging on' about this sort of thing that made me stop and think about approaching things in a different way. I'll report back as I gradually build the system. When I get to the speakers Dave from Audio Counsel is actually going to come and set them up and make sure everything sounds as it should - something else you have been advocating.

Thanks for the inspiration. I hope more people take your advice. :cheers:

 

[the record spot]

To the OP, I'd suggest you also add Tannoy's excellent DC4 to your list. Very non-hifi, deeply engaging and a bargain at their original RRP never mind the prices they go for now. A must audition IMO. Had mine for over two years now and they still continue to surprise.

 

[the record spot]

To Matthewpiano, I echo Drummerman's comments to a tee.

This latest spell has seen you at your worst for some time with the Denon 720 amp being a keeper, only to be replaced in the last few weeks by the Marantz and now it's falling short supposedly.

I don't think this has anything to do with hifi, and I don't think a dealer will help you either, except to spend more money. In any case, your dissatisfaction will kick in after a period of time and you'll be on the treadmill again.

I think you need to work out what the source of your problem is, which to my reading of it might well need professional help, but not the kind you'll find in a retail hifi shop. Whatever it is, this isn't a normal behavioral pattern at all.

 

[ErwinC]

Actually it was you 'banging on' about this sort of thing that made me stop and think about approaching things in a different way. I'll report back as I gradually build the system. When I get to the speakers Dave from Audio Counsel is actually going to come and set them up and make sure everything sounds as it should - something else you have been advocating.

To Matthewpiano.

I am surpised that you believe that you are now going to find what you are looking for so long based on a few hours of listening and based on the taste of somebody else.

In the past you really enjoyed many setups for many weeks/months. It was only after a longer time you felt something was not 100%. How are you now going to avoid this?

In the end, i don't think there will be a solution that is 100% what you want all the time and for the rest of your life. Musical nirvana is not reached by selecting the right equipment or by making sure that everything sounds as it should, but by having the right mindset and by listening to the music. Al imo ofcourse.

 

[chebby]

I have attempted to describe, on many occasions, how I feel that most budget and mid priced equipment all sounds the same, not in hi-fi terms but in musical ability. Learning how to stop listening to the hi-fi and make your judgement on the musical ability of the system is the trick.

It's a big trick to learn though. (And getting bigger as more dynamically bad recordings come on the market.)

Matthew has obvious connections to real music being played live. In his daily life he is listening to and playing real instruments. He has a high level of competence in playing real instruments and teaching others how to play.

This should make it easy to 'weed out' those systems that are 'hi-fi' from those that are - primarily - musically satisfying. However, Matthew has always been constrained by budget and got locked into buying the next thing he can afford rather than ditch the lot and start again even if it means going without a system until the right one can be afforded.

I have no musical training but enjoy a fairly eclectic spread of music from 70s pop to jazz and some (lighter) classical. My 'can't do without' is a system's ability to portray radio drama (and the spoken voice across it's whole range of emtion) in such a way that my only reminder of the hi-fi is the physical act of switching it on and selecting something to listen to.

I have never been interested in the cables and box-collecting and tweaking that has - traditionally - been associated (wrongly to my mind) with 'hi-fi'. It is too fetishistic and drags you down to 'fetishistic' practices and beliefs that are a 100 percent distraction from just playing the content you want to enjoy.

That was my big mistake with Naim separates. No matter how good it all sounded, there was all that 'stuff' about the cables and the collars on the cables and the PRaT and the switch-on thumps and the hogwash about never switching it off and whether displays should be left on or off and ... and ... and ... ad infinitum. Added to this the system was inflexible and bulky and ugly to look at. I know this shouldn't matter but it's just another way the system gets 'in-yer-face' rather than disappear like it should.

The Marantz system I have owned since is virtually 'invisible' in comparison and never makes demands. It has never dragged me into any thoughts about the cables (other than ensuring they are are as short as practically possible) or any other dubious belief systems surrounding accessories. It has made me want to use it every day (and I do) because it's fun. (By contrast the CD5i spent over 6 months in it's box in a cupboard - until I sold the system - and I had no intention of ever plugging it back in again!)

Quite often I put the sound from a TV programme or BD through the system and, when I go to turn the sound down at the end, forget it was even coming from there and use the TV remote's volume control by mistake. (That never happened with the Naims because you couldn't possibly forget the b####y things! They wouldn't let you.)

Anyway, my involvement with and my enjoyment of music (and drama etc.) has gone up exponentially since the 'true hi-fi' seperates were sold. I buy more CDs than ever before (to rip), I listen to more (and more varied) radio content from more stations (including internet radio) than ever before.

I hope 'Callum J' finds the right loudspeakers for his M-CR610 soon. I can't really advise on that. I already knew, when I bought my M-CR603, what my favourite speakers were and they paired excellently.

 

[drummerman]

I think you need to work out what the source of your problem is, which to my reading of it might well need professional help, but not the kind you'll find in a retail hifi shop. Whatever it is, this isn't a normal behavioral pattern at all.

I wouldn't go that far though it may be fair to describe is as obsessive behaviour.

Most of us, me included, have been there.

There was a time, in the nineties, when I had six or seven amplifiers and several cd players at home at any given time, all on loan from Movement Audio Bournemouth. It did nothing other than confuse the hell out of me. One item did this better, the other something else. - I drove for hours to audition other stuff Movement didn't carry, into London, Bristol, Bath etc.

This lasted a good half year and cost me a fair amount of money.

My friends at Movement suggested something to me which changed the direction and gave me a break.

Ever since, I am not in a habit of changing my systems to often and am usually very content with what I have.

I think its just a phase and hope Matt, with or without the dealer, will get out of it.

Regards

 

[matthewpiano]

I think you need to work out what the source of your problem is, which to my reading of it might well need professional help, but not the kind you'll find in a retail hifi shop. Whatever it is, this isn't a normal behavioral pattern at all.

I wouldn't go that far though it may be fair to describe is as obsessive behaviour.

Most of us, me included, have been there.

There was a time, in the nineties, when I had six or seven amplifiers and several cd players at home at any given time, all on loan from Movement Audio Bournemouth. It did nothing other than confuse the hell out of me. One item did this better, the other something else. - I drove for hours to audition other stuff Movement didn't carry, into London, Bristol, Bath etc.

This lasted a good half year and cost me a fair amount of money.

My friends at Movement suggested something to me which changed the direction and gave me a break.

Ever since, I am not in a habit of changing my systems to often and am usually very content with what I have.

I think its just a phase and hope Matt, with or without the dealer, will get out of it.

Regards

Thanks DM. It is just a phase and I already feel different after my visit to Diggle - as much because of the conversation as anything else. There isn't the same feeling of 'Well I liked that but what would this sound like?' that I've had when I've heard things previously. The equipment isn't at the centre of it in the same way. As a result I am quite literally clearing the decks and will end up with just one possible system in the home with no back-ups, spares or alternatives. I also won't be writing any more reviews as I don't want to be part of driving anybody else into listening for the hi-fi elements instead of focusing on the music. The trip was a cathartic experience and I'm confident time will show it to be a turning point.

 

[the record spot]

No offence meant Matt but I think a step back is a good idea. Your system has a lot of churn but it seems more than ever of late. I'm not massively convinced however that this will be the resolution you hope for, but at least if you recognise you can't carry on in this fashion ongoing, then that itself is a positive outcome.

 

[davedotco]

I do not feel that Mathew's 'change of approach' has very much to do with the equipment in question, or for that matter, the specific dealer.

The big difference comes about when you stop worrying about the equipments reputation, it's reviews and it's acceptance in the wider hi-fi community and start listening to what really works for you. We all have different views on what works for us, often these views are unconcious and ill defined, we simply know that something is not correct and want a change.

The usual response to this situation is to decide (often quite erroniously) which part of your system is at fault and to go out and 'audition' possible upgrades, invariably from a short list of well reviewed and 5* products. Do that often enough and box swapping becomes the hobby, no problem with that per se, but unlikely to give long term satisfaction.

Explaining yourself to a competent dealer and letting him pick the equipment, without worrying about the 'hype' is a really good way of moving forward, the confusion caused by highly regarded product failing to live up to expectations is one of the biggest issues that customers have these days. Admitting that a highly regarded, award winning product really does not work for you is difficult and a lot of people still buy the product anyway, 'since the experts can't be wrong'.

Good luck with that...... :doh:

 

[the record spot]

Possibly why my next pair of speakers might be Pioneer's S71B standmount...

 

[chebby]

Possibly why my next pair of speakers might be Pioneer's S71B standmount...

Mine were never even reviewed (that I know of). They sounded spot-on when I heard my first pair in 2008 and I still love them now.

 

[Callum J]

Thanks everyone for suggesting different speaker options. I'm leaning towards the Dali Zensor 1s.....but it's tempting to maybe bid for Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s, or 121s on Ebay? or MA BX2s.....decisions, decisions

 

[knaithrover]

Possibly why my next pair of speakers might be Pioneer's S71B standmount...

Ive read some good things about these mainly on American sites - Have you seen/heard them yourself?

 

[cse]

I think Matthew is actually quite ill. He suffers from thom the same kind of psychosis that afflicted other 'deceased' members of the the past ie Igglebert and Thaiman. He needs to stop listening to HIFI altogether and just tune into Radio 3 on any reasonable portable that he has in the house. The route of of the problem of course, apart from having an overly critical ear, has clearly been lack of funds. None of your choices speaker wise (especially) or (perhaps) amp as well, have been sophisticated enough for classical music appreciation. You should also leave the Forum as it is an addiction that has made you far too opinionated and often led you to appear unnecessarily upset at the slightest provocation.

 

[manicm]

I hope 'Callum J' finds the right loudspeakers for his M-CR610 soon. I can't really advise on that. I already knew, when I bought my M-CR603, what my favourite speakers were and they paired excellently.

And therein lies the grub. On paper the 603 and 610 seem to be no different in amplification and have the same power ratings. However, reading WHF's reviews of the two seems to suggest the newer model is considerably smoother sounding. They never ever used the term 'polite' with the older model as far as memory serves.

Therefore to the OP - I'd be inclined to try a pair of KEF Q100 or Q300s as well. No harm in trying.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

to the op, out of curiosity how far apart are your speakers and what speaker cable are you using?

the reason I ask is have you considered upgrading your speaker cable and trying different positions for your speakers.

i.e if you currently have your speakers within a metre apart connected with 'bell' wire an upgrade of the cable and relocation could be all thats really needed.

lol.... have to say ref mathewpiano, I'm not suprised by your post in this thread. the Marantz is what it is and is no substitute ( no matter how hard one try's to convince one's self...) for someone used to the bigger picture a full grown amp provides. I have to say I agree with dave's last post - alot imagine a 'sound' a performance from hifi that is just not feasable and is only found imo accidently when speaker position is not a restriction in the home ( a luxsury most of us don't have).

best of luck to you as your quest go's on, hope you don't end up like FennerMachine considering spending thousands of pounds to achieve hifi heaven.

 

[knaithrover]

To the OP, I'd suggest you also add Tannoy's excellent DC4 to your list. Very non-hifi, deeply engaging and a bargain at their original RRP never mind the prices they go for now. A must audition IMO. Had mine for over two years now and they still continue to surprise.

Wow they are cheap - just spotted a pair for £200 mint on ebay....

 

[matthewpiano]

to the op, out of curiosity how far apart are your speakers and what speaker cable are you using?

the reason I ask is have you considered upgrading your speaker cable and trying different positions for your speakers.

i.e if you currently have your speakers within a metre apart connected with 'bell' wire an upgrade of the cable and relocation could be all thats really needed.

lol.... have to say ref mathewpiano, I'm not suprised by your post in this thread. the Marantz is what it is and is no substitute ( no matter how hard one try's to convince one's self...) for someone used to the bigger picture a full grown amp provides. I have to say I agree with dave's last post - alot imagine a 'sound' a performance from hifi that is just not feasable and is only found imo accidently when speaker position is not a restriction in the home ( a luxsury most of us don't have).

best of luck to you as your quest go's on, hope you don't end up like FennerMachine considering spending thousands of pounds to achieve hifi heaven.

Thompsonuxb, thank you for your very considerate post. It is appreciated. I certainly won't be spending thousands of pounds as I don't have that sort of money. I've been busy selling a lot of the bits and pieces I have so that I can fund the system I heard last week. This is my last go at it as I can't afford to go any further in the forseeable future.

Anyway, I'd better go and have my medication

 

[justlikeheaven]

I've got a similar dilemma to Callum. I've recently bought a Cambridge Audio Minx xi (which I think is superb), however I wasn't sure whether it's time to retire my MA BR5 speakers for something new. They sound great with my current set up, but I'm thinking there might be something better out there now.

Does anyone have any recommendations? Sky's the limit price wise. Size wise though I'm not looking for anything larger than what I currently have due to space restrictions.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Sanjay

 

[JC1982]

Just to throw some other speakers into the mix... I have a mcr603 and had some Zensor 1s before replacing them with rega rs1. The zensors were excellent but the regas just sound sweet. Hard to describe and certainly a similar sound signature but the regas just do everything the zensors do but better ie bigger soundstage, sweeter treble, tighter bass. I wouldn't say they are £200 better necessarily though.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

to the op, out of curiosity how far apart are your speakers and what speaker cable are you using?

the reason I ask is have you considered upgrading your speaker cable and trying different positions for your speakers.

i.e if you currently have your speakers within a metre apart connected with 'bell' wire an upgrade of the cable and relocation could be all thats really needed.

lol.... have to say ref mathewpiano, I'm not suprised by your post in this thread. the Marantz is what it is and is no substitute ( no matter how hard one try's to convince one's self...) for someone used to the bigger picture a full grown amp provides. I have to say I agree with dave's last post - alot imagine a 'sound' a performance from hifi that is just not feasable and is only found imo accidently when speaker position is not a restriction in the home ( a luxsury most of us don't have).

best of luck to you as your quest go's on, hope you don't end up like FennerMachine considering spending thousands of pounds to achieve hifi heaven.

Thompsonuxb, thank you for your very considerate post. It is appreciated. I certainly won't be spending thousands of pounds as I don't have that sort of money. I've been busy selling a lot of the bits and pieces I have so that I can fund the system I heard last week. This is my last go at it as I can't afford to go any further in the forseeable future.

Mathew, let me say this - although you now have a system in mind, it may be worth you considering a budget reciever upto 500poundish, seriously. The reason I would suggest this is they have far more fexability than a standard amp.for example if you have a cd player with a digital out or require the use of a usb port - you'll have these options - you'll also get +80watts x5, driven in stereo it'll give you more than enough control over your speakers.

You'll even get tone controls and dsp modes that may just get you the sound you actually want, I understand tis a taboo I speak of but if your testing/auditioning stuff try a few with the speakers of your choice.

it never ceases to amaze me the amount of dissatisfaction I read on this forum regards stereo amps - 5star amps costing over 500pound that don't live up to the hype and praise. I know I accidently stumbled on my system. If your budget is tight its worth considering. hey, you can get DAB radio thrown in too.

 

[Callum J]

to the op, out of curiosity how far apart are your speakers and what speaker cable are you using?

the reason I ask is have you considered upgrading your speaker cable and trying different positions for your speakers.

i.e if you currently have your speakers within a metre apart connected with 'bell' wire an upgrade of the cable and relocation could be all thats really needed.

lol.... have to say ref mathewpiano, I'm not suprised by your post in this thread. the Marantz is what it is and is no substitute ( no matter how hard one try's to convince one's self...) for someone used to the bigger picture a full grown amp provides. I have to say I agree with dave's last post - alot imagine a 'sound' a performance from hifi that is just not feasable and is only found imo accidently when speaker position is not a restriction in the home ( a luxsury most of us don't have).

best of luck to you as your quest go's on, hope you don't end up like FennerMachine considering spending thousands of pounds to achieve hifi heaven.

The speakers are about 2 metres apart, and because of the layout of my room, and lack of space, they are wall mounted; needing one 12 metre run of cable, and the other 10 metres. As for the make of cable....i have no idea, it was bought a long time ago, but it's fairly heavy multistrand stuff. What would be an economical choice of cable to buy, taking into consideration the lengths required? I see people recommending 500 strand OFC stuff off Ebay for instance?

 

[Cypher]

Matthewpiano,

I hope you will be satisfied with the system you are going to buy. Life is too short for buying new gear everytime and not enjoying music. I know it's tempting to buy new kit once in a while and I am guilty of this too I have owned the Pioneer A-30 for a year now and the q acoustics 2020i speakers also. I just recently bought a new DAC (musical fidelity V90) and I'm going to keep this system for a while. It sounds very, very good IMO. Please keep in mind that not all recording are the same also..........my fusionjazz/pop cd's sound the best on my system because all those recordings have awesome production

Let us know what you bought...................

 

[Thompsonuxb]

to the op, out of curiosity how far apart are your speakers and what speaker cable are you using?

the reason I ask is have you considered upgrading your speaker cable and trying different positions for your speakers.

i.e if you currently have your speakers within a metre apart connected with 'bell' wire an upgrade of the cable and relocation could be all thats really needed.

lol.... have to say ref mathewpiano, I'm not suprised by your post in this thread. the Marantz is what it is and is no substitute ( no matter how hard one try's to convince one's self...) for someone used to the bigger picture a full grown amp provides. I have to say I agree with dave's last post - alot imagine a 'sound' a performance from hifi that is just not feasable and is only found imo accidently when speaker position is not a restriction in the home ( a luxsury most of us don't have).

best of luck to you as your quest go's on, hope you don't end up like FennerMachine considering spending thousands of pounds to achieve hifi heaven.

The speakers are about 2 metres apart, and because of the layout of my room, and lack of space, they are wall mounted; needing one 12 metre run of cable, and the other 10 metres. As for the make of cable....i have no idea, it was bought a long time ago, but it's fairly heavy multistrand stuff. What would be an economical choice of cable to buy, taking into consideration the lengths required? I see people recommending 500 strand OFC stuff off Ebay for instance?

12m....thats a long length of cable - if you say your speakers have lost their sparkle, make sure the tweeters are still working, check your cabling and re-terminate them on your speakers at 12 & 10metre runs there is no cheap soloution, it'd be cheaper to just get the Dali Zensor 1's if your cablings o.k ......

 

[the record spot]

Possibly why my next pair of speakers might be Pioneer's S71B standmount...

Ive read some good things about these mainly on American sites - Have you seen/heard them yourself?

Not yet alas, but irons are in the fire, so to speak!