Hello Matt
Since you already like the Harbeth sound, then perhaps try the new Monitor 30.1s?
Alternatively, maybe the Spendor SP1/2R2 which is roughly the same size (and price I think).
If you'd like to try an American speaker, I'd recommend the Joseph Audio Pulsar.
Good luck!
Since you already like the Harbeth sound, then perhaps try the new Monitor 30.1s?
Alternatively, maybe the Spendor SP1/2R2 which is roughly the same size (and price I think).
If you'd like to try an American speaker, I'd recommend the Joseph Audio Pulsar.
Good luck!
DocG
Well-known member
- May 1, 2012
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Alears said:DocG said:Alears said:The chappy that mentioned Usher speakers may indeed have a point.
Apart from the usual suspects you have already listed I would not spend your sort of money without trying to audition some of the American speakers (if you can find a pair then the Acoustic Zen's in my signature would be ideal) or even some of the German Audio Physic speakers, or again one of the the smaller Martin Logan panels might be ideal.
I should point out that I tend to match speakers to the room rather than an amp.
+1 for trying panels, but Martin Logans are no good match. Several reports of Devialets shutting down when driving MLs; the Dev doesn't like the <1 Ohm load in their high freq range. That would make for a good reason to match speakers to the amp (and to the room too, of course)
It is news to me that there is any problem with Devialet and ML panels but I bow to DocG's greater knowledge in this respect.
Oh, I just read that in Stereophile (http://www.stereophile.com/content/devialet-d-premier-da-integrated-amplifier, 4th comment and reply by JA).
Hello chaps,
You'll probably have deduced from the infrequency and odd hours of my posts that I'm in an unusual place -- Wyoming, to be precise, where the landscapes are awesome but the internet connections sporadic.
Thanks to all for your inventive and imaginative suggestions. I knew I could rely on you. Art, Devore and GamuT in particular deserve consideration.
I'm sorry not to be able to respond to each of your posts individually (see Wyoming above). So please don't feel left out if I've ignored you or picked on if I haven't.
Harbeth -- some have suggested the M30.1s. I heard these with the Dev 170 in direct comparison with the Super HL5s and Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor Ms. Compared to the HL5s they seemed to lack sweetness at the top end. I like the HL5s a lot, but even they seemed to me a little disjointed compared to the SFs.
Electrostatics -- If I had a big enough room, I'd seriously entertain some Quads, but as it is my room lacks width, so 700mm-wide panels would be a problem. I'm trying to persuade Mrs 49 that we should move house, but that's a long game ....
LindsayT -- I was thinking of doing one or two speaker bake-offs in the next month or two. If I get around to it, I'll send out a call. I'm in west London.
Many thanks for all your help so far. Pls keep the suggestions coming.
:cheers:
Matt
You'll probably have deduced from the infrequency and odd hours of my posts that I'm in an unusual place -- Wyoming, to be precise, where the landscapes are awesome but the internet connections sporadic.
Thanks to all for your inventive and imaginative suggestions. I knew I could rely on you. Art, Devore and GamuT in particular deserve consideration.
I'm sorry not to be able to respond to each of your posts individually (see Wyoming above). So please don't feel left out if I've ignored you or picked on if I haven't.
Harbeth -- some have suggested the M30.1s. I heard these with the Dev 170 in direct comparison with the Super HL5s and Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor Ms. Compared to the HL5s they seemed to lack sweetness at the top end. I like the HL5s a lot, but even they seemed to me a little disjointed compared to the SFs.
Electrostatics -- If I had a big enough room, I'd seriously entertain some Quads, but as it is my room lacks width, so 700mm-wide panels would be a problem. I'm trying to persuade Mrs 49 that we should move house, but that's a long game ....
LindsayT -- I was thinking of doing one or two speaker bake-offs in the next month or two. If I get around to it, I'll send out a call. I'm in west London.
Many thanks for all your help so far. Pls keep the suggestions coming.
:cheers:
Matt
Al ears
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2008
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Yet another possibility if you can find a pair might be the ATC SCM50SL this combo recently appeared n the letters page of the UK mag 'HiFi Choice' September edition.
Not a combo I would have considered but the owner of it praises it highly.
Not a combo I would have considered but the owner of it praises it highly.
JM Renaud might be a possibility, but I'm not sore they can be found in the UK...which is a pity.....but you seem to travel a bit. :shifty:
So many options! I would try to hear the new Kudos models, the Super 10 and Super 20. You have already mentioned Sonus Faber and I would want to try out other models by them. Opera is another Italian company worth checking out. The other name I would look at is Triangle, their Magellan Duette and if you can stretch that far magellan Cello. Happy auditioning. I am again truly envious.
Thanks for the further suggestions.
I'm afraid these are far too big. I do have some smaller ATCs on my list.
Yes, seems they haven't tried the UK market yet. Certainly not averse to travel. I did even email a few Accuphase dealers in France and the Low Countries a couple of months back in my efforts to hear the E560. Not sure about travelling to France for speakers though, when the speaker market in the UK is so sophisticated.
WB have been on my radar: thanks for this. BTW, anyone out there had experience of their Torus subwoofer (which they say isn't a subwoofer)?
Funny isn't it that we call LF cones subwoofers, when dogs are really much more interested in supertweeters.
Ah, yes, Triangle. The Magellan Duettos might suit my room rather well.
And on a related note ...
... this must be the right way. A longlist can't all be demoed at home. It'd take ages. But after an initial triage chez dealers I'll be doing home auditions.
Thanks for all your help.
:cheers:
Matt
Alears said:
I'm afraid these are far too big. I do have some smaller ATCs on my list.
CnoEvil said:
Yes, seems they haven't tried the UK market yet. Certainly not averse to travel. I did even email a few Accuphase dealers in France and the Low Countries a couple of months back in my efforts to hear the E560. Not sure about travelling to France for speakers though, when the speaker market in the UK is so sophisticated.
DocG said:
WB have been on my radar: thanks for this. BTW, anyone out there had experience of their Torus subwoofer (which they say isn't a subwoofer)?
Funny isn't it that we call LF cones subwoofers, when dogs are really much more interested in supertweeters.
James7 said:
Ah, yes, Triangle. The Magellan Duettos might suit my room rather well.
And on a related note ...
Alears said:I should point out that I tend to match speakers to the room rather than an amp.
... this must be the right way. A longlist can't all be demoed at home. It'd take ages. But after an initial triage chez dealers I'll be doing home auditions.
Thanks for all your help.
:cheers:
Matt
Just back from an extended holiday, and I hit the ground running today with my first speaker demo, and a real curate's egg of a demo it was.
While away I did a fair bit of trawling the webby-thing and managed to source most of your suggestions (or at least the ones that fitted my initial spec, which was for speakers not wider than 250mm or deeper than 350mm). Over the next couple of months I'll be demoing some of the usual suspects (PMC, Proac, Neat ...) and some stuff from the further reaches (Devore, Audiovector ...).
First up was an odd contrast: Spendor D7 and Vivid V1.
The Spendors are smart, elegant floorstanders. The Vivids, though not as outlandish as their Giya models, look as though they were grown in a petri dish on the planet Zog.
The source was a Mac playing ALAC files into the Dev 170 via USB.
My first impression of the Spendors was positive. It was a solo violin piece, and the D7s sounded very correct and delicate, with good transients, though I did note that there seemed to be a lack of air (reverberation) around the violin, and the top end was a tad furry. As I moved into more complex music, things fell apart completely. The mid-range was pinched and unnatural. Vocals were simply awful: thin, strained and nasal, with no warmth or richness. Overall the presentation, whilst nicely fast and dynamic, was lean and forced.
My first thought was to blame the room acoustics. No concessions had been made to room conditioning; the wall behind the listening position was covered in faux leather and was obviously reflective. In fact, I was about to flounce out. I mean, it seemed inconceivable that a pair of Spendors, which were allegedly run in and properly connected to the Dev, could sound this poor.
But, hey, why not give the Vivids a blast first ...
A blast indeed. The Vivids really are very impressive speakers, once you get past the weird-space-creature looks. I've heard the Dev before through Harbeths (Super HL5s and M30.1s) and SF Cremona Auditor Ms. The Vivids gave virtually nothing away in terms of overal SQ, and in some departments they were simply better.
First: excellent dynamics. The sound has a powerful, muscular feel. As I turned the volume up I felt I was being hit by a hammer of loveliness. Imaging was also outstanding, with loads of space around the instruments and a tremendous sense of scale, especially on opera.
Tonally the sound seemed true: string and piano tones were alive but also round and rich.
It's become clear to me that what I'm after above all is a presentation that digs deep into the music's structure but remains coherent and smooth. This is what the Harbeths and SFs did, and the Vivids did it too. But they also seemed to add a sense of drama.
If I were to be critical, I'd say that the top end was slightly rolled off and lacked a smidge of sparkle, not in a dull way -- these speakers are never going to be dull -- but there just seemed to be a tiny something missing which I remember especially from the SFs and the Super HL5s.
Having said that, these speakers do voices brilliantly. No unwanted breathiness or sibilance, just wonderful expressiveness and presence.
Now you might say that after the disappointment of the Spendors (and I still can't help thinking that something was wrong with them), the Vivids had it easy. They'll need to be auditioned against more serious competition. And they're certainly worth a second audition!
I'd strongly recommend an audition if you get a chance.
:cheers:
While away I did a fair bit of trawling the webby-thing and managed to source most of your suggestions (or at least the ones that fitted my initial spec, which was for speakers not wider than 250mm or deeper than 350mm). Over the next couple of months I'll be demoing some of the usual suspects (PMC, Proac, Neat ...) and some stuff from the further reaches (Devore, Audiovector ...).
First up was an odd contrast: Spendor D7 and Vivid V1.
The Spendors are smart, elegant floorstanders. The Vivids, though not as outlandish as their Giya models, look as though they were grown in a petri dish on the planet Zog.
The source was a Mac playing ALAC files into the Dev 170 via USB.
My first impression of the Spendors was positive. It was a solo violin piece, and the D7s sounded very correct and delicate, with good transients, though I did note that there seemed to be a lack of air (reverberation) around the violin, and the top end was a tad furry. As I moved into more complex music, things fell apart completely. The mid-range was pinched and unnatural. Vocals were simply awful: thin, strained and nasal, with no warmth or richness. Overall the presentation, whilst nicely fast and dynamic, was lean and forced.
My first thought was to blame the room acoustics. No concessions had been made to room conditioning; the wall behind the listening position was covered in faux leather and was obviously reflective. In fact, I was about to flounce out. I mean, it seemed inconceivable that a pair of Spendors, which were allegedly run in and properly connected to the Dev, could sound this poor.
But, hey, why not give the Vivids a blast first ...
A blast indeed. The Vivids really are very impressive speakers, once you get past the weird-space-creature looks. I've heard the Dev before through Harbeths (Super HL5s and M30.1s) and SF Cremona Auditor Ms. The Vivids gave virtually nothing away in terms of overal SQ, and in some departments they were simply better.
First: excellent dynamics. The sound has a powerful, muscular feel. As I turned the volume up I felt I was being hit by a hammer of loveliness. Imaging was also outstanding, with loads of space around the instruments and a tremendous sense of scale, especially on opera.
Tonally the sound seemed true: string and piano tones were alive but also round and rich.
It's become clear to me that what I'm after above all is a presentation that digs deep into the music's structure but remains coherent and smooth. This is what the Harbeths and SFs did, and the Vivids did it too. But they also seemed to add a sense of drama.
If I were to be critical, I'd say that the top end was slightly rolled off and lacked a smidge of sparkle, not in a dull way -- these speakers are never going to be dull -- but there just seemed to be a tiny something missing which I remember especially from the SFs and the Super HL5s.
Having said that, these speakers do voices brilliantly. No unwanted breathiness or sibilance, just wonderful expressiveness and presence.
Now you might say that after the disappointment of the Spendors (and I still can't help thinking that something was wrong with them), the Vivids had it easy. They'll need to be auditioned against more serious competition. And they're certainly worth a second audition!
I'd strongly recommend an audition if you get a chance.
:cheers:
matt49 said:
Good to get your feedback.
The Spendor STs are the best of their floorstanders by some margin (imo), but aren't initially impressive, as their talent grows on you. Saying that, I think they are a little on the expensive side, though i've seen them ex-dem at more reasonable money. I suspect their Classic Range may be more to your taste.
CnoEvil said:
I like the look of the STs, and they'd conform to spec. The dealer I visited today didn't have the STs in stock, and in fact the main aim of today was to hear the Vivids. As you gathered, I rather liked them ...
From the Classic range, the top end models are too bulky. The SP2/3R²s might be worth a listen, though I doubt they'd improve on the Harbeths.
Good to be back in demo mode again!
:cheers:
Matt
Matt.......
I'm kind of reminded of of a well known cricketing aphorism. It goes like this,
In a 4 or 5 day game when you win the toss, you think about putting the opposition in to bat, then decide to bat anyway.
In your situation, you think about some alternatives, then buy a pair of Sonus Faber.
I'm kind of reminded of of a well known cricketing aphorism. It goes like this,
In a 4 or 5 day game when you win the toss, you think about putting the opposition in to bat, then decide to bat anyway.
In your situation, you think about some alternatives, then buy a pair of Sonus Faber.
Matt, a hifi friend recently listened to a Devialet amp driving Raidho D-1 speakers and has been raving about the experience since.
These are very expensive at US$25,000 a pair though... (for bookshelves!!)
These are very expensive at US$25,000 a pair though... (for bookshelves!!)
Based on your description of the Vivid speakers, check out Focal 1028be/1008be or Diablo Utopia.
-mute
-mute
davedotco said:
Macspur said:Lets face it, it would be a great choice and afterall, one you did pick for your dream system.
Nevertheless, still good fun demoing and you never know what might crop up!
Mac
Both absolutely right, of course. But the wicket is actually looking a bit sticky ...
:shifty:
Matt
Thanks for the suggestions: please keep 'em coming.
Ahem, yes, I've heard rumour of this combo. Very nice, I'm sure ...
I plan to hear the 1008/1028s. The Diablo Utopias are too bulky and IMO a design nightmare, though I'm sure they sound great.
Singslinger said:
Ahem, yes, I've heard rumour of this combo. Very nice, I'm sure ...
mute said:
I plan to hear the 1008/1028s. The Diablo Utopias are too bulky and IMO a design nightmare, though I'm sure they sound great.
Devialet use Vivid loudspeakers to demonstrate their amps, so I am not totally surprised by your enthusiastic response. But then Spendor chose Devialet amps to showcase the D7 at launch, which would seem an odd decision given your findings. Makes me think there must have been something odd about your audition - the combination might not be the right one for you but I am surprised by just how badly the Spendors performed. That airy top-end you seek you might find via Usher's Diamond DMD tweeters - the Mini Dancer Two, perhaps. Or ribbons, of course.
Any plans to hear the Triangle Magellan Duettos?
Any plans to hear the Triangle Magellan Duettos?
James7 said:
Ah, didn't know that. Thanks.
James7 said:
Despite my suspicions, the acoustics were fine, as was the set-up, so there must have been something wrong with that pair of Spendors. It's hard to believe a company that's produced so many fine boxes could have made such a dog.
James7 said:
Thanks, will check those out.
I think I can get to hear the Triangles, though it'll be a schlepp.
Next demo is Proac D30Rs, up against PMC Fact 8s and possibly B&W 804Ds (tho' I'm not a big B&W fan).
:cheers:
Matt
Interesting next demo. I am not totally convinced from when I have heard B & Ws either, though i seem to remember someone somewhere liking what some top model did on the end of a D Premier so maybe there's a synergy thing here that could work well. They also, like the top Ushers, employ a diamond tweeter, though the top end can be a touch harde. I wonder whether you will like the Fact 8 as much as one the end of the MF AMS 35i (you did audition that combo I think?) or whether that might be another synergy thing. It seems to me synergy really is key, first between speakers and room and second between speakers and amp, and if you can get both of those right everything else will probably fall into place.
James7 said:
Exactly. I found the top end of the B&Ws unpleasantly hard and brittle on the end of the MF AMS 35i. But I wonder whether the smooth and glassy (?) top end of the Dev 170 might marry well with the B&Ws. Let's see ...
James7 said:
Couldn't agree more. Looking forward to tomorrow. Err, today already ...
:cheers:
Matt
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