Speakers around £1500-2500

[altruistic.lemon]

You're right, od, missed that. Still a waste of a good amp, though, and not exactly environmentally friendly

 

[Craig M.]

The Opals are a good recommendation. You wouldn't care about not using the power section of your amp because they'll cr@p on any passive speaker at the same price. Mine were the equal of anything I've ever heard and I think would blow you away. They are butt ugly though.

Massive thread about them here. Clicky.

Edit: Gotta love the filter putting the word 'rubbish' in instead of the one I used! :rofl:

 

[steve_1979]

You're right, od, missed that. Still a waste of a good amp, though...

Not really but if that does bother the OP he could always swap it for one of these Cyrus pre-amps. Clicky

...and not exactly environmentally friendly

I doubt that the Cyrus 8vs2 is would use much power if it was only being used as a pre-amp for active speakers and the power amp section is not being used.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You're right, od, missed that. Still a waste of a good amp, though...

Not really but if that does bother the OP he could always swap it for one of these Cyrus pre-amps. Clicky

...and not exactly environmentally friendly

I doubt that the Cyrus 8vs2 is would use much power if it was only being used as a pre-amp for active speakers and the power amp section is not being used.

Maybe, but there's the 4 amps of the active speakers to consider as well. I'd guess the Cyrus used alone would be much more economical andeco friendlier than the combination. But the point is, surely, there's no point in going active given the OP has fine sources plus amp. He'll get better quality components going the normal route than the active one, plus much less hassle (?) if he wants to upgrade.

 

[steve_1979]

Maybe, but there's the 4 amps of the active speakers to consider as well. I'd guess the Cyrus used alone would be much more economical andeco friendlier than the combination. But the point is, surely, there's no point in going active given the OP has fine sources plus amp. He'll get better quality components going the normal route than the active one, plus much less hassle (?) if he wants to upgrade.

Sound quality wise the Opals are better then any £2000 passive speakers by quite a considerable margin (IME).

As for the power consumption actives are actually more efficient than passive speakers and the Opals amplifiers are class A/B so won't run hot unless you're playing them at silly high volume levels.

 

[matt49]

Sound quality wise the Opals are better then any £2000 passive speakers by quite a considerable margin (IME).

Steve, I assume what you really meant was that you think the Opals are better than the £2000 passive speakers you've heard. In which case, it would be helpful if you could say what they are.

Otherwise it's a bit like me saying my Sonus Fabers are IME better than any active speakers up to £8000 (which would be true).

Matt

 

[davedotco]

Generally speaking I am a great advocate of active loudspeakers at the lower end of the price spectrum, but at higher price levels, where amplifier power is a bit more realistic and passive speakers far better designed and aimed at a more mature market, i feel that both have a lot to offer.

Comparing them really is rather difficult, as they do things so differently, SF as you know are great favourites of mine but their are occasions when something else is needed.

Just my weird ways I guess.

 

[steve_1979]

Sound quality wise the Opals are better then any £2000 passive speakers by quite a considerable margin (IME).

Steve, I assume what you really meant was that you think the Opals are better than the £2000 passive speakers you've heard. In which case, it would be helpful if you could say what they are.

Otherwise it's a bit like me saying my Sonus Fabers are IME better than any active speakers up to £8000 (which would be true).

Matt

The usual suspects from the likes of B&W, KEF, PMC, ATC etc.

Obviously I haven't heard all of the passive speaker/amplifier combinations in the world that cost around £2000. But of all the ones that I have heard the Opals (and some of the other active speakers) have sounded quite a bit better, especially where dynamic range and clarity are concerned.

 

[steve_1979]

Generally speaking I am a great advocate of active loudspeakers at the lower end of the price spectrum, but at higher price levels, where amplifier power is a bit more realistic and passive speakers far better designed and aimed at a more mature market, i feel that both have a lot to offer. Comparing them really is rather difficult, as they do things so differently, SF as you know are great favourites of mine but their are occasions when something else is needed. Just my weird ways I guess.

I've heard some very impressive passive speakers too (I actually own a pair of passive Neutron Five speakers). Just today I posted on this forum about some lovely sounding Spendor and Vienna Acoustics passive speakers. With the right high quality high powered amplifiers these can sound really ace.

But generally I find that good quality active speakers sound better than an equally priced passive speaker/amp combination for the same price. That's just my experience I'm afraid.

 

[matt49]

My suggestion to the OP would be the Neat Momentum 3is, which have an isobaric driver set-up and can produce hefty bass. Or maybe second-hand Momentum 4is?

I've heard some very impressive passive speakers too (I actually own a pair of passive Neutron Five speakers). Just today I posted on this forum about some lovely sounding Spendor and Vienna Acoustics passive speakers. With the right high quality high powered amplifiers these can sound really ace.

This is where passive systems can have something of a technological advantage over actives. Traditionally actives have had built-in Class AB amps that have needed to run quite cool (for obvious reasons). This excluded the use of valves, Class A, or Class AB amps heavily biased towards Class A operation. And that's where the quality is in higher-priced amps, simply because these designs avoid the crossover distortion that's a feature of cool-running Class ABs.

I did think of going down the active route for my main system (and I'm very happy with the new Adams in my office), but having tried a couple of (domestically acceptable) actives (AVI, Dynaudio, ATC), in my price bracket I preferred the sound of passive systems.

Matt

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi everyone,

I've just completed my audio set-up containing PMC Twenty 22 bookshelf speakers, Cyrus 8vs2 amplifier and various audio sources: Rega P2 turntable, basic CD player and computer with external sound card.

PMC Twenty 22s sound incredible - open, natural and very detail sound. However, due to my listening music, they do not provide with plenty of bass in terms of depth and quantity. I mostly listen to electronic music (from ambient to techno and drum and bass), some hip-hop, jazz and funk. Therefore I consider changing speakers to probably floorstanders or bookshelves which could provide with sufficient bass.

So far I am planning to listen to these models:

1. PMC GB1i and FB1i. According to information in forums and other internet sources, they do not provide lots of bass, but are quite good with electronic music.

2. ProAc Studio 120MkII. These do plenty of bass, but are not the best with electronics (information from the internet).

3. ATC SCM19. Bookshelves with plenty of bass and good with electronics (information from the internet).

Does anyone have experience with these models or could recommend any other worth consideration? I look for the speakers which will suit good with electronic music, provide plenty of bass and sound natural and in great detail (despite of bass lack, I really like sound profile of PMC Twenty 22s). Speakers' room area is 28 sq. meters with listening area about 18 sq. meters. Budget is around £1500-2500, second hand speakers are welcome.

Thanks in advance for opinions and recommendations!

Have you thought about adding a power amplifier to drive your 22's properly? The vs range of amplifiers were quite lean sounding, and with the lean sounding nature of the Twenty series, it is no wonder you are wanting for more bass.

I would look around for some used X Power, or even better still, a couple of Mono X power amplifiers which will certainly give your 22's what for. You may even get a deal on some outgoing Mono X200's (they're now replaced with the Signature version), but these would still probably come in above your budget.

You can look at other speakers if you like, but most floorstanders within the budget you're looking at will demand more control from your amplifier than your current speakers, which it will more than likely fail to do. You have to balance tha amp/speaker combination - going over the top on one or the other will just end up in a system you're not happy with. Before making drastic changes to a speaker you like, drive them properly first, and then make the decision. Loan a pair of Cyrus Monos from a dealer if you have to, even if they're out of your budget - it will give you an idea of what the Twenty.22's can really sound like.

 

[davedotco]

Hi everyone,

I've just completed my audio set-up containing PMC Twenty 22 bookshelf speakers, Cyrus 8vs2 amplifier and various audio sources: Rega P2 turntable, basic CD player and computer with external sound card.

PMC Twenty 22s sound incredible - open, natural and very detail sound. However, due to my listening music, they do not provide with plenty of bass in terms of depth and quantity. I mostly listen to electronic music (from ambient to techno and drum and bass), some hip-hop, jazz and funk. Therefore I consider changing speakers to probably floorstanders or bookshelves which could provide with sufficient bass.

So far I am planning to listen to these models:

1. PMC GB1i and FB1i. According to information in forums and other internet sources, they do not provide lots of bass, but are quite good with electronic music.

2. ProAc Studio 120MkII. These do plenty of bass, but are not the best with electronics (information from the internet).

3. ATC SCM19. Bookshelves with plenty of bass and good with electronics (information from the internet).

Does anyone have experience with these models or could recommend any other worth consideration? I look for the speakers which will suit good with electronic music, provide plenty of bass and sound natural and in great detail (despite of bass lack, I really like sound profile of PMC Twenty 22s). Speakers' room area is 28 sq. meters with listening area about 18 sq. meters. Budget is around £1500-2500, second hand speakers are welcome.

Thanks in advance for opinions and recommendations!

Have you thought about adding a power amplifier to drive your 22's properly? The vs range of amplifiers were quite lean sounding, and with the lean sounding nature of the Twenty series, it is no wonder you are wanting for more bass. I would look around for some used X Power, or even better still, a couple of Mono X power amplifiers which will certainly give your 22's what for. You may even get a deal on some outgoing Mono X200's (they're now replaced with the Signature version), but these would still probably come in above your budget. You can look at other speakers if you like, but most floorstanders within the budget you're looking at will demand more control from your amplifier than your current speakers, which it will more than likely fail to do. You have to balance tha amp/speaker combination - going over the top on one or the other will just end up in a system you're not happy with. Before making drastic changes to a speaker you like, drive them properly first, and then make the decision. Loan a pair of Cyrus Monos from a dealer if you have to, even if they're out of your budget - it will give you an idea of what the Twenty.22's can really sound like.

Not a bad call, I was thinking along these lines myself before the 'active issue' raised its ugly little head.

My thought was for PMC's own amplifiers. Zero bling, but seriously muscular 200 watt monoblocks for about £1200, will give the 22s a real kick up the derreiere.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Not a bad call, I was thinking along these lines myself before the 'active issue' raised its ugly little head.

My thought was for PMC's own amplifiers. Zero bling, but seriously muscular 200 watt monoblocks for about £1200, will give the 22s a real kick up the derreiere.

Also worth looking at - especially as they're 'voiced' to sound like Bryston.

 

[Crossie]

I think you you should upgrade the amp.

- add a PSX_R for about £250 or

- bi amp with an X Power for about £500 (2nd hand) or

- get a pair of Mono X's for about £1000 (2nd hand) using 8vs2 as a Pre.

PMC twenty22 deserve more than just an 8vs2 (good though it is)

 

[davedotco]

Not a bad call, I was thinking along these lines myself before the 'active issue' raised its ugly little head.

My thought was for PMC's own amplifiers. Zero bling, but seriously muscular 200 watt monoblocks for about £1200, will give the 22s a real kick up the derreiere.

Also worth looking at - especially as they're 'voiced' to sound like Bryston.

Interesting, I know that they are Class D, based on the Hypex modules I believe.

Are the Brystons still conventional class AB? If the PMCs get close to that level of performance for such modest cost, they would be something of a bargain.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Interesting, I know that they are Class D, based on the Hypex modules I believe.

Are the Brystons still conventional class AB? If the PMCs get close to that level of performance for such modest cost, they would be something of a bargain.

Yes, all Bryston power amps are Class A/B. The PMC power amps are voiced to sound like Brystons, but most of the Brystons will be more powerful (depends which Bryston amps you're comparing to I suppose). From experience, I find the bass performance of a 3B is quite different to that of the 7B monos - those two little boxes can't be as good as ANY of Bryston power amps!

 

[davedotco]

Interesting, I know that they are Class D, based on the Hypex modules I believe.

Are the Brystons still conventional class AB? If the PMCs get close to that level of performance for such modest cost, they would be something of a bargain.

Yes, all Bryston power amps are Class A/B. The PMC power amps are voiced to sound like Brystons, but most of the Brystons will be more powerful (depends which Bryston amps you're comparing to I suppose). From experience, I find the bass performance of a 3B is quite different to that of the 7B monos - those two little boxes can't be as good as ANY of Bryston power amps!

Now you are trying to get me going, I like a good argument, shall we try for the full half hour?

In reality I have not had 'hands on' a Bryston amp in many years but from memory they struck me as fairly typical hi-end pro amplifiers.

Massive build, plenty of power and lots of connection and other facilities but rather expensive in pure performance terms. That said I have not heard the PMC amps either, but given the simple and rather prosaic build they have to be good, no other reason to even think about buying them.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

From personal experience, ProAc Studio 140s work brilliantly with Cyrus kit, especially if you add an X-Power (or two) to your 8VS2. The floor-firing bass port fills out the "thin" sound of the Cyrus kit superbly. Wish I'd kept mine when I moved back to the US a couple of years ago.

 

[Singslinger]

Some super suggestions here, especially ProAc Studio 140s or D18s.

However, here's one from left field - in a high-end bookshelf speaker shootout that appeared in the Sep issue of another UK hifi mag, the PMC 22 was beaten into second place by the Elac BS403.

I've had some experience with Elacs having owned the BS 244s - brilliant ribbon-like tweeter (named JET), immaculate German engineering, wonderful sound.

My Elac dealer tells me the 403s improves on the 244s, which IMHO means they have to be very good indeed.

Might be worth a listen.

Good luck!

 

[davedotco]

Some super suggestions here, especially ProAc Studio 140s or D18s. However, here's one from left field - in a high-end bookshelf speaker shootout that appeared in the Sep issue of another UK hifi mag, the PMC 22 was beaten into second place by the Elac BS403. I've had some experience with Elacs having owned the BS 244s - brilliant ribbon-like tweeter (named JET), immaculate German engineering, wonderful sound. My Elac dealer tells me the 403s improves on the 244s, which IMHO means they have to be very good indeed. Might be worth a listen. Good luck!

Nice call. I have some experience of the 330 models which were spectacular both in sound quality and looks. Quite power hungry as I recall but a wonderfully open and natural sound with decent well controlled bass for a smallish stand mount.

For what it is worth the engineering standards of Elac product is first class, pretty much all done in house.

 

[Singslinger]

Some super suggestions here, especially ProAc Studio 140s or D18s. However, here's one from left field - in a high-end bookshelf speaker shootout that appeared in the Sep issue of another UK hifi mag, the PMC 22 was beaten into second place by the Elac BS403. I've had some experience with Elacs having owned the BS 244s - brilliant ribbon-like tweeter (named JET), immaculate German engineering, wonderful sound. My Elac dealer tells me the 403s improves on the 244s, which IMHO means they have to be very good indeed. Might be worth a listen. Good luck!

Nice call. I have some experience of the 330 models which were spectacular both in sound quality and looks. Quite power hungry as I recall but a wonderfully open and natural sound with decent well controlled bass for a smallish stand mount.

For what it is worth the engineering standards of Elac product is first class, pretty much all done in house.

Thanks - and yes, Elacs tend to be a bit more power/current hungry than the average bookshelf speaker. :cheers:

 

[davedotco]

Some super suggestions here, especially ProAc Studio 140s or D18s. However, here's one from left field - in a high-end bookshelf speaker shootout that appeared in the Sep issue of another UK hifi mag, the PMC 22 was beaten into second place by the Elac BS403. I've had some experience with Elacs having owned the BS 244s - brilliant ribbon-like tweeter (named JET), immaculate German engineering, wonderful sound. My Elac dealer tells me the 403s improves on the 244s, which IMHO means they have to be very good indeed. Might be worth a listen. Good luck!

Nice call. I have some experience of the 330 models which were spectacular both in sound quality and looks. Quite power hungry as I recall but a wonderfully open and natural sound with decent well controlled bass for a smallish stand mount.

For what it is worth the engineering standards of Elac product is first class, pretty much all done in house.

Thanks - and yes, Elacs tend to be a bit more power/current hungry than the average bookshelf speaker. :cheers:

Actually I know there is pair of 330s with stands stuck away unused in a garage, bit dusty but they would probably scrub up beautifully. Natural silver grey finish, if I had some money............

 

[datay]

Hi everyone,

I've just completed my audio set-up containing PMC Twenty 22 bookshelf speakers, Cyrus 8vs2 amplifier and various audio sources: Rega P2 turntable, basic CD player and computer with external sound card.

PMC Twenty 22s sound incredible - open, natural and very detail sound. However, due to my listening music, they do not provide with plenty of bass in terms of depth and quantity. I mostly listen to electronic music (from ambient to techno and drum and bass), some hip-hop, jazz and funk. Therefore I consider changing speakers to probably floorstanders or bookshelves which could provide with sufficient bass.

So far I am planning to listen to these models:

1. PMC GB1i and FB1i. According to information in forums and other internet sources, they do not provide lots of bass, but are quite good with electronic music.

2. ProAc Studio 120MkII. These do plenty of bass, but are not the best with electronics (information from the internet).

3. ATC SCM19. Bookshelves with plenty of bass and good with electronics (information from the internet).

Does anyone have experience with these models or could recommend any other worth consideration? I look for the speakers which will suit good with electronic music, provide plenty of bass and sound natural and in great detail (despite of bass lack, I really like sound profile of PMC Twenty 22s). Speakers' room area is 28 sq. meters with listening area about 18 sq. meters. Budget is around £1500-2500, second hand speakers are welcome.

Thanks in advance for opinions and recommendations!

Have you thought about adding a power amplifier to drive your 22's properly? The vs range of amplifiers were quite lean sounding, and with the lean sounding nature of the Twenty series, it is no wonder you are wanting for more bass. I would look around for some used X Power, or even better still, a couple of Mono X power amplifiers which will certainly give your 22's what for. You may even get a deal on some outgoing Mono X200's (they're now replaced with the Signature version), but these would still probably come in above your budget. You can look at other speakers if you like, but most floorstanders within the budget you're looking at will demand more control from your amplifier than your current speakers, which it will more than likely fail to do. You have to balance tha amp/speaker combination - going over the top on one or the other will just end up in a system you're not happy with. Before making drastic changes to a speaker you like, drive them properly first, and then make the decision. Loan a pair of Cyrus Monos from a dealer if you have to, even if they're out of your budget - it will give you an idea of what the Twenty.22's can really sound like.

+1 to this and other recommendations to try new amp first; you need more than a Cyrus 8Vs2. I have mentioned before that I am using a Belles 150A v2 dual-mono power amp (125W into 8Ohms) with my Twenty.22s in a 4m x 5.5m room, and the bass is beautiful, I listen to mainly eletronic music and techno too (e.g. latest purchase = Dettmann II). The only issue I have with the bass is not in the lowest region but slightly more mid/upper bass (I think, I'm no expert) - there's not quite enough slam behind kicks sometimes, though it very much depends on the recording. A recent techno release (mastered on ATC's actually) that sounds really superb, bass and kicks, is Monad XV by Plaster.