Speaker suggestions for Hegel H160 / Roksan K3 / Rega Elicit-R

[empacher]

Hi there - I'm helping set up some demos for some friends of mine so I am looking for some advice on how to narrow in on a few promising combinations.

The room is very large - more than 50m3 with vaulted ceilings. They are big into jazz and classical, and currently using a 25 year old 50w Nakamichi amp with Proac monitors so it is time for a change and an upgrade.

They seem to be settling on the Roksan K3 (or maybe the Rega) because it is in the right range, seems versitile, but now they need to demo some speakers. Brand options that are more accessible to demo are Proac, Dynaudio, Focal, Rega, Harbeth (a little more difficult).

I have not heard the Roksan or Rega but based on the reviews and the fact my friends likes jazz/classical, they'll probably want something that takes the edges off. Anyone heard the Roksan or Rega with Proac Studio 148s or D20, or Harbeth M30.1 or SHL5s? Other ideas based on the brand combinations listed?

thanks

 

[CnoEvil]

For Jazz and Classical, I'd be suggesting Amps from Sugden, Pathos, Electrocompaniet, Abrahamsen, Icon Audio, Arcam and Unison Research.

I would then be looking at speakers like Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Proac.

...Failing that, I'd be suggesting Rega with Kef R Series.

What Source is being used?

 

[rainsoothe]

For Jazz and Classical, I'd be suggesting Amps from Sugden, Pathos, Electrocompaniet, Abrahamsen, Icon Audio, Arcam and Unison Research.

I would then be looking at speakers like Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Proac.

...Failing that, I'd be suggesting Rega with Kef R Series.

What Source is being used?

Rega elicit or Hegel H80 + kef R series is a great suggestion. Preferably floorstanders. Arcam A29 or A39, or, even better, used Naim Supernait or XS (the first iterations) + Focal Aria 926 is also worth considering.

 

[empacher]

Thanks for the feedback. WRT some of those other brands, the challenge is finding stores that carry them and other speakers in their range. Given the dynamics of the room, an in store demo isn't a reliable proxy, so it means buying and testing the gear or finding a shop that is willing to load a bunch of stuff up in the back of a van and drive out to their place which is 45 mins to 1 hr away. One of the reason I'm asking about some specific combos is that is what is readily accessible from a couple of good dealers willing to accomodate.

For amps, in addition to Rega and Roksan, also available are Hegel, NAD, Marantz, Naim, Bryston (though Naim and Bryston are really out of the range). The same dealer that has Hegel also has KEF speakers, so that is an option.

For source, they will just pick up the corresponding CD player/DAC for now, but they do have a fair amount of vinyl so will likely pick up a turntable down the road.

 

[plastic penguin]

I would be looking at Totem speakers. Match well with Arcam, Creek, Leema or any class A or tube amps.

 

[empacher]

Totems are an option as well, but I've typically found them a little on the bright side - maybe not ideal with the Elicit or K3. Granted some of the newer'ish' models no longer use the rather harsh metal Seas tweeters.

 

[plastic penguin]

Totems are an option as well, but I've typically found them a little on the bright side - maybe not ideal with the Elicit or K3. Granted some of the newer'ish' models no longer use the rather harsh metal Seas tweeters.

What amp did you hear the Totems with?

 

[lindsayt]

empacher, this thread illustrates the perils of buying hi-fi on the basis of what you've read instead of what you've heard.

A Roksan K3 will not sound significantly better than the existing Nakamichi amp - unless the Nakamichi has a technical fault.

There are also 2 key pieces of information: the room size and the taste in music.

Large room and classical and jazz.

For such a room and such music I personally would not touch any of the speakers mentioned so far in this thread.

I'd go for Quad electrostatics (especially for classical). Or horns / horn hybrids (especially for jazz) - eg a classic pair of big JBL's, Altecs, EV speakers.

 

[empacher]

I had Totem Model 1s when I upgraded my amp from a Brio-R to the older Elicit and then to the Supernait. I could listen to them with the Brio-R (and they weren't bad even if underpowered) but they were 'harsh' with the Elicit and the Supernait. That surprised me a little because when I originally demoed the Model 1s, they were smoother than some of the other Totems like the Rainmakers and Hawks. As a result I've rightly or wrongly jumped to the conclusion that Totems are bright and best with tubes. I guess to be fair, every Totem model is quite different and there are a few standouts like the Arros and Mani 2s. No doubt the new Elicit R is different than the old - Whathifi did pair it with the Rainmaker afterall (still a head scratcher for me) - but I'm still coloured by my actual experience.

 

[empacher]

empacher, this thread illustrates the perils of buying hi-fi on the basis of what you've read instead of what you've heard.

hence, the thread is about narrowing in on promising demo combinations

 

[Andrewjvt]

empacher, this thread illustrates the perils of buying hi-fi on the basis of what you've read instead of what you've heard.

A Roksan K3 will not sound significantly better than the existing Nakamichi amp - unless the Nakamichi has a technical fault.

 

There are also 2 key pieces of information: the room size and the taste in music.

Large room and classical and jazz.

 

For such a room and such music I personally would not touch any of the speakers mentioned so far in this thread.

I'd go for Quad electrostatics (especially for classical). Or horns / horn hybrids (especially for jazz) - eg a classic pair of big JBL's, Altecs, EV speakers.

Ill be listening to some jbl s3900s and other large woofer jbl monitors soon

 

[plastic penguin]

I had Totem Model 1s when I upgraded my amp from a Brio-R to the older Elicit and then to the Supernait. I could listen to them with the Brio-R (and they weren't bad even if underpowered) but they were 'harsh' with the Elicit and the Supernait. That surprised me a little because when I originally demoed the Model 1s, they were smoother than some of the other Totems like the Rainmakers and Hawks. As a result I've rightly or wrongly jumped to the conclusion that Totems are bright and best with tubes. I guess to be fair, every Totem model is quite different and there are a few standouts like the Arros and Mani 2s. No doubt the new Elicit R is different than the old - Whathifi did pair it with the Rainmaker afterall (still a head scratcher for me) - but I'm still coloured by my actual experience.

I remember you having the Brio with the Model 1s. I said at the time that a £500 amp with a 2k speaker sounded OTT.

This emphasises how important control/tonal matching is with speakers. The only Totems I've heard and dem'd were the Arros and they sounded sweet with the Leema Pulse. So much so I almost purchased a pair. The only reason why I didn't is because they were easy to knock over (young child at the time).

I know of a poster who used to frequent on here heard the Arros with Arcam's old A32 and said the combo sounded fantastic.

As you live in Canada Totems should be easy to dem and cheaper than in the UK.

As the previous poster said it's so important to dem before parting with money. Hi-fi can be a real minefield.

 

[empacher]

I had Totem Model 1s when I upgraded my amp from a Brio-R to the older Elicit and then to the Supernait. I could listen to them with the Brio-R (and they weren't bad even if underpowered) but they were 'harsh' with the Elicit and the Supernait. That surprised me a little because when I originally demoed the Model 1s, they were smoother than some of the other Totems like the Rainmakers and Hawks. As a result I've rightly or wrongly jumped to the conclusion that Totems are bright and best with tubes. I guess to be fair, every Totem model is quite different and there are a few standouts like the Arros and Mani 2s. No doubt the new Elicit R is different than the old - Whathifi did pair it with the Rainmaker afterall (still a head scratcher for me) - but I'm still coloured by my actual experience.

I remember you having the Brio with the Model 1s. I said at the time that a £500 amp with a 2k speaker sounded OTT.

This emphasises how important control/tonal matching is with speakers. The only Totems I've heard and dem'd were the Arros and they sounded sweet with the Leema Pulse. So much so I almost purchased a pair. The only reason why I didn't is because they were easy to knock over (young child at the time).

I know of a poster who used to frequent on here heard the Arros with Arcam's old A32 and said the combo sounded fantastic.

As you live in Canada Totems should be easy to dem and cheaper than in the UK.

As the previous poster said it's so important to dem before parting with money. Hi-fi can be a real minefield.

You have a good memory sir. In Canada the Totems are about half the price than in the UK and Rega is more expensive so hard to gauge on price.

Anyway I guess we'll see what works. Again the whole idea is setting up demos before buying. The challenge when going with a completely new system is starting somewhere and evolving it from there. No doubt the dealers have a number of good suggestions but they are based around what the dealers carry understandably.

 

[CnoEvil]

FWIW. Any time I've heard Totems, it has been on the end of a Moon system...and they (for my taste), sounded "shouty".

Hegel or Rega should sound very well with Kef R Series, provided there is a reasonable Source used.

 

[plastic penguin]

FWIW. Any time I've heard Totems, it has been on the end of a Moon system...and they (for my taste), sounded "shouty".

Hegel or Rega should sound very well with Kef R Series, provided there is a reasonable Source used.

Funny you should say the Cno. The last time I dem'd the Arros was in a S. London dealer and he had a Moon set-up.

According to some reviews the Moon is meant to sound 'barrell chested' but with the Arros it sounded quite unbalanced. When he plugged them into the Pulse it was the polar opposite. Yet the some reviews say the Leema can be overly forthright. Even more reason to dem IMHO.

 

[CnoEvil]

Funny you should say the Cno. The last time I dem'd the Arros was in a S. London dealer and he had a Moon set-up.

According to some reviews the Moon is meant to sound 'barrell chested' but with the Arros it sounded quite unbalanced. When he plugged them into the Pulse it was the polar opposite. Yet the some reviews say the Leema can be overly forthright. Even more reason to dem IMHO.

At the time I bought the AMS35i, I had a Moon i7 out for a home dem. I really wanted to like it, as "on paper" it was exactly what I was looking for...and was at a very good ex-dem price.

It was supposed to sound powerful and refined....but I found it "shouty" when turned up and preferred my AVR600 to it.

This is why I qualified my comment about the Totems, as it may have been a bad match.

The same thing may apply to Focal Arias, which I have only heard on the end of a Naim system....and didn't get on with the sound. So many people have rated them, that I "may" have got them wrong.

 

[lindsayt]

empacher, this thread illustrates the perils of buying hi-fi on the basis of what you've read instead of what you've heard.

hence, the thread is about narrowing in on promising demo combinations

There's a catch then. The sort of speakers that are suitable for Classical / Jazz in a 50m2 high ceilinged room and available at a reasonable price are not the sort of speakers you will find available for demo at any dealers near you.

They are the sort of speakers you buy on ebay, try at home and then sell on if you find something else you prefer. The key being to buy them at the right price in the first place.

EG:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Urei-809A-Studio-monitors-With-New-Foams-/262461270463?hash=item3d1be929bf:g:8dAAAOSwR5dXQ3GL

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Altec-Model-19-speakers-pair-/331872559227?hash=item4d4525607b:goUAAOSwKadXPiFk

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Vintage-Altec-Granada-Model-875A-Speakers-/131833906478?hash=item1eb1e9c52e:g:1WkAAOSwVyRXTj~W (needs a refoam)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-vintage-BOZAK-CONCERT-GRAND-speaker-/112013775175?hash=item1a148a9147:g:iP8AAOSw3R1XTl28

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Altec-Lansing-Voice-Of-The-Theater-1233-Speaker-802D-804A-Drivers-H-811B-Horns-/152097821306?hash=item2369bc927a:g:kaUAAOSwEeFU2ttA

The other catches being that you'll need a lot of luck to find this sort of speaker at the right price within an hours drive of your home. Plus they are large. Your friend could go smaller, but there will be a significant price to pay in terms of in room authority - especially on full orchestral pieces and any jazz featuring a drum-kit. Smaller speakers will sound like small speakers shouting to be heard in such a large room.

 

[empacher]

empacher, this thread illustrates the perils of buying hi-fi on the basis of what you've read instead of what you've heard.

hence, the thread is about narrowing in on promising demo combinations

There's a catch then. The sort of speakers that are suitable for Classical / Jazz in a 50m2 high ceilinged room and available at a reasonable price are not the sort of speakers you will find available for demo at any dealers near you.

They are the sort of speakers you buy on ebay, try at home and then sell on if you find something else you prefer. The key being to buy them at the right price in the first place.

The other catches being that you'll need a lot of luck to find this sort of speaker at the right price within an hours drive of your home. Plus they are large. Your friend could go smaller, but there will be a significant price to pay in terms of in room authority - especially on full orchestral pieces and any jazz featuring a drum-kit. Smaller speakers will sound like small speakers shouting to be heard in such a large room.

Well hopefully they can find a functional compromise. You may indeed be offering the best and most cost effective solution, at least based on your experience and listening habits, but it is just not really feasible for them. They've lived with the current relatively low powered set up for 25 years. I'm sure there are other options that offer very good, though maybe not perfect, listening experiences. I guess we'll see.

Anyway first up will be the Hegel H160 with KEFs and Harbeths.

 

[rainsoothe]

empacher, this thread illustrates the perils of buying hi-fi on the basis of what you've read instead of what you've heard.

hence, the thread is about narrowing in on promising demo combinations

There's a catch then. The sort of speakers that are suitable for Classical / Jazz in a 50m2 high ceilinged room and available at a reasonable price are not the sort of speakers you will find available for demo at any dealers near you.

They are the sort of speakers you buy on ebay, try at home and then sell on if you find something else you prefer. The key being to buy them at the right price in the first place.

The other catches being that you'll need a lot of luck to find this sort of speaker at the right price within an hours drive of your home. Plus they are large. Your friend could go smaller, but there will be a significant price to pay in terms of in room authority - especially on full orchestral pieces and any jazz featuring a drum-kit. Smaller speakers will sound like small speakers shouting to be heard in such a large room.

Well hopefully they can find a functional compromise. You may indeed be offering the best and most cost effective solution, at least based on your experience and listening habits, but it is just not really feasible for them. They've lived with the current relatively low powered set up for 25 years. I'm sure there are other options that offer very good, though maybe not perfect, listening experiences. I guess we'll see.

Anyway first up will be the Hegel H160 with KEFs and Harbeths.

The H160 is a great call, since it can also do streaming (besides having a lot of power). Reading suggests that it's a bit on the smooth side, so do try it with other speakers as well, as Harbeths are known to be smooth, and so is Kef's R series (at least the R300 I heard). Try it also with Focal Aria range, or ATC SCM11 or, even better, 19. There's at least 1 happy user on this forum running Hegel+ATC, and he's had nothing but praise for the combo. PMC might also be worth a look.

And ye, also audition Naim and Bryston - it actually SAVES money in the long run - auditioning and not having the feeling something is lacking, then loosing lots of money selling the stuff SH and doing side-grades just to change the sound a little.

Taking your time to audition or, at least, considering your options is the best advice anyone can give you.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Not sure if anyone seen the lasted news on Hifi choice there is a new rosksan amp +cdplayer coming out soon just that I noticed the thread header has rosksan in it

 

[empacher]

empacher, this thread illustrates the perils of buying hi-fi on the basis of what you've read instead of what you've heard.

hence, the thread is about narrowing in on promising demo combinations

There's a catch then. The sort of speakers that are suitable for Classical / Jazz in a 50m2 high ceilinged room and available at a reasonable price are not the sort of speakers you will find available for demo at any dealers near you.

They are the sort of speakers you buy on ebay, try at home and then sell on if you find something else you prefer. The key being to buy them at the right price in the first place.

The other catches being that you'll need a lot of luck to find this sort of speaker at the right price within an hours drive of your home. Plus they are large. Your friend could go smaller, but there will be a significant price to pay in terms of in room authority - especially on full orchestral pieces and any jazz featuring a drum-kit. Smaller speakers will sound like small speakers shouting to be heard in such a large room.

Well hopefully they can find a functional compromise. You may indeed be offering the best and most cost effective solution, at least based on your experience and listening habits, but it is just not really feasible for them. They've lived with the current relatively low powered set up for 25 years. I'm sure there are other options that offer very good, though maybe not perfect, listening experiences. I guess we'll see.

Anyway first up will be the Hegel H160 with KEFs and Harbeths.

The H160 is a great call, since it can also do streaming (besides having a lot of power). Reading suggests that it's a bit on the smooth side, so do try it with other speakers as well, as Harbeths are known to be smooth, and so is Kef's R series (at least the R300 I heard). Try it also with Focal Aria range, or ATC SCM11 or, even better, 19. There's at least 1 happy user on this forum running Hegel+ATC, and he's had nothing but praise for the combo. PMC might also be worth a look.

And ye, also audition Naim and Bryston - it actually SAVES money in the long run - auditioning and not having the feeling something is lacking, then loosing lots of money selling the stuff SH and doing side-grades just to change the sound a little.

Taking your time to audition or, at least, considering your options is the best advice anyone can give you.

The Naim and Bryston are good ideas for sure but they are in a price bracket that might put them out of contention.

So far, the Hegel H160 and Harbeth SHL5+ are an excellent match. Up next are the Roksan and Unison Audio with Proacs.