Speaker dilemna???

[cse]

I decided that i wanted to upgrade my speakers, as I considered them to be the week link in my system. I have a Densen CD420, Roksan caspian amp mk1 and BW CD1SE (10yrs old).

Anyway, the dealer first put on PMC DB1i's. These were decidedly underwhelming and seemed to offer no sonic improvements. Even he seemed surprised. Next up ATC SCM 7's. These also proved rather feeble. He then suggested that my amp might be at fault and suggested using the Densen with a Rega Elclipse (?). Surprisingly, this proved dull in comparison with old Roksan. After that some Neat motive 3's, which were the best of the bunch, although still perhaps not really an upgrade.

I thought this might be the end of it, but we decided to try the Neat motve 2's. Now we could hear some real depth and grunt, but as these were the old model ( a new SE to be delivered next week) I was unable to make a decision. I left with the idea of returning next week to hear the old and new Motive 2's side by side.

On the way home I went to another dealer with the offer of a home demo on Spendor SA1's including stands for £1200, but they are out on lone at the moment.

Back at home on listening to my BW's again, I'm beginning to wonder if it's all worth the outlay, as it semmed to sound good enough.

Not sure what to do now?

 

[cse]

Any thoughts guys?

 

[drummerman]

Pretty straightforward ... only when you find something better ...

This advise is free of charge.

 

[Anonymous]

Try the SA1s but you'll probably decide it's not worth the outlay. See if you can try some Proac D1 or D2, and maybe you could consider the EB2s. What about Harbeth? There's a few different sizes and models to consider depending on the room you have. Pretty expensive though.

 

[Anonymous]

The proac D1's are great speakers, and have some good tight bass as well. They are no where near the size of the EB's or the D2's, but are way less intrusive in your room than the larger speakers.

They sound sweet with all types of music, midrange is open and overall could not be happier with them. Even told the GF that these were keepers for quite a few years now and its time to stop upgrading.

Have a listen to them, but make sure they are well run in as the sound does open up after quite a few hours playing. (ps they still are great out of the box though!)

 

[cse]

I'm interested in what you mean Igglebert when you say that the SA1s are ptobably not worth the outlay. Which Harbeth models and where is a retailer in East Anglia?

 

[Anonymous]

Well, from what you have suggested with previous auditions and the price points, I'm guessing you won't feel that the SA1 offers enough for the money. For example, David from Frank Harvey Hifi said that the ATC SCM7 offers much of what the SA1 offers but for far less. The DB1i also came pretty close in a group test in Hifi Choice. The only way to know is to audition. The SA1 has some stunning qualities, e.g. lucid midrange, but whether that's enough for you I don't know.

The nearest dealer I can see from the Harbeth Website is Essex: www.radlettaudio.co.uk or you could buzz down to London to KJ West One. The obvious model is the P3ESR, reviewed here.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Bodfish]

drummerman:

Pretty straightforward ... only when you find something better ...

Thumbs up to that DM!

cse, your experience with the CDM1SE certainly rings bells with me; I used to own a pair and went through exactly what you are going through now.

My source and amplification were 'better' than my speakers and I should upgrade them - except having demo'd a couple of PMCs (the LB1 and original FB1) the ProAc Response 1SC, an Audio Note AN-J variant and even a Martin Logan model which I can't remember now, I kept hold of those speakers. By the time I did actually let them go (my whole system went towards my first house deposit!), they were hanging off the end of a ~£5k Meridian system.

The interaction between speaker and room is probably the biggest trade off your going to make so if the B&Ws still sound good to you keep hold of them. I'd happliy suggest you think about spending your budget on your amplification.

But the P3ESRs are fantastic BTW...

 

[cse]

Have just purchased the new Neat Motive 2 SE model. Auditioned against the old Motive 2 and my original BW CM1 SE's. Picking them up tomorrow. Can't wait.

Will update my thoughts later.

 

[plastic penguin]

cse:

I decided that i wanted to upgrade my speakers, as I considered them to be the week link in my system. I have a Densen CD420, Roksan caspian amp mk1 and BW CD1SE (10yrs old).

Anyway, the dealer first put on PMC DB1i's. These were decidedly underwhelming and seemed to offer no sonic improvements. Even he seemed surprised. Next up ATC SCM 7's. These also proved rather feeble. He then suggested that my amp might be at fault and suggested using the Densen with a Rega Elclipse (?). Surprisingly, this proved dull in comparison with old Roksan. After that some Neat motive 3's, which were the best of the bunch, although still perhaps not really an upgrade.

I thought this might be the end of it, but we decided to try the Neat motve 2's. Now we could hear some real depth and grunt, but as these were the old model ( a new SE to be delivered next week) I was unable to make a decision. I left with the idea of returning next week to hear the old and new Motive 2's side by side.

On the way home I went to another dealer with the offer of a home demo on Spendor SA1's including stands for £1200, but they are out on lone at the moment.

Back at home on listening to my BW's again, I'm beginning to wonder if it's all worth the outlay, as it semmed to sound good enough.

Not sure what to do now?

One thing I've learned over the 30-odd years of buying hi-fis is: If in doubt...

 

[cse]

First thoughts on the Neat motive SEs. They look incredibly small enen in my small room. The sound is very airy and open compared with the BWs, but it doesn't sound as good as it did in the dealers. Why is is this always the case? Another problem is the Roksan amp has to be turned up to 12 or 1 O clock in order to hear alot of music - especially classical. Is this right? or does it mean that it lacks the power?

 

[drummerman]

cse:First thoughts on the Neat motive SEs. They look incredibly small enen in my small room. The sound is very airy and open compared with the BWs, but it doesn't sound as good as it did in the dealers. Why is is this always the case? Another problem is the Roksan amp has to be turned up to 12 or 1 O clock in order to hear alot of music - especially classical. Is this right? or does it mean that it lacks the power?

Problem is you have some decent speakers already. You 'decided' that they are the weak link without having any other reference. Now you found that they are really not that bad which is no surprise.

Why torture yourself and 'upgrade' (side step?) for the sake of it. If I can suggest something it would be to keep what you have for the moment and perhaps widen your search for a speaker to models which are not the usual suspects, such as Totem or Amphion for no other reason that it is fun to try things. You might find something eventually and on a personal note, Amphion's speakers are gorgeous.

As always, my opinion only.

As always, my opinion only.

 

[Frank Harvey]

cse:The sound is very airy and open compared with the BWs, but it doesn't sound as good as it did in the dealers. Why is is this always the case?

More than likely the dealer's demo ones will be run in, or at least partially run in (depending how long they've been on demo), so would sound a lot better than a pair straight out of the box. Speakers can sound very constrained initially, so much so that they can sound like completely different speakers, and don't forget your acclimatisation to the new sound over the old sound you're used to hearing in your room.

 

[cse]

I'm sure that you're right Frank Harvey. But what about the amplifier issues? Is it aproblem to have to turn your am up so far?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Usually, most amplifiers are pushing out their comfortable maximum around the 12 o'clock mark, although there are one or two exceptions. Do you find you're hitting 12/1 o'clock at home or in the dealer's demo room? I find I have to play stuff louder at work then I do at home...

Ideally, normal listening should be around the 10, maybe 11 o'clock mark. The amp needs something in reserve in order to cleanly produce sudden dynamic swings.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
Usually, most amplifiers are pushing out their comfortable maximum around the 12 o'clock mark, although there are one or two exceptions. Do you find you're hitting 12/1 o'clock at home or in the dealer's demo room? I find I have to play stuff louder at work then I do at home...

Ideally, normal listening should be around the 10, maybe 11 o'clock mark. The amp needs something in reserve in order to cleanly produce sudden dynamic swings.

I agree. My amp doesn't have a dial but goes up to 50. I listen at 20 for fairly decent volumes and get to 25-27 when I crank it up and it's loud! Obviously I have tested going a bit higher but I can't go past 32 or 33 before I get scared of doing something bad!!

 

[cse]

I'm talking about at home. I need to put the dial 11 or 12 for decent volume. I am, however, talking about classical music. With rock/pop I can usually get away with 10/11, but mostly 11. Would this be different if I added a caspian power amp?