speaker amp advice

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Ok my suggestion is arcam a85 with a phono stage on eBay right now for £300 and dali ikon 1 mk2 on richer sounds for £299,these released at over 500 quid and the arcam was(is) a fantastic amp that was £800 in it's day, I doubt you'll do better than that for 600 quid.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

for £700 you could get the marantz pm6005 + marantz cd6005 , dali 3 speakers all 3 have won what hifi awards for the last 2 years . lots of marantz pm6005 + marantz cd6005 on ebay secondhand or new as richer sounds have a sale on now the marantz pm6005 + cd player have come down in price as the amp is now £245 & so is the cd player £245 both were £350 each last year . both sound very good with metal music as this is what i had before i upgraded to the marantz pm8005 and the dali 3s are good value for money but not sure what price this are now but would of thought they have come down in price too .

that sounds like a pretty good deal but the question i had at the start of this thread that i still dont really know the answer to pertains to wattage, at 45w per channel on the marantz does it have the power needed to get loud? i do like to crank up the volume and i feel like i might be asking just a bit to much of it

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

Ok my suggestion is arcam a85 with a phono stage on eBay right now for £300 and dali ikon 1 mk2 on richer sounds for £299,these released at over 500 quid and the arcam was(is) a fantastic amp that was £800 in it's day, I doubt you'll do better than that for 600 quid.

thank you, ill check that out 🙂

 

[Blacksabbath25]

There is the yamha as701 for £399 that's a 100 watts per channel but then you would need a good set of speakers the Dali 3s should be OK as they are rated 120 watts handling and then you could go marantz cd 6005 or the cheaper 5005 they both use the same dac in side but with the speakers do you want floor standing or book shelf speakers ? Because I found that when I used the Dali 3s even though they are good the floor standing speakers are better for metal music because you get better lower bass and a bigger sound stage . But as your after a 100 watt amp most of your budget will end up on the amp unless your happy to look at secondhand but I do recommend that you go and have a demo at a hi fi shop to see what kind of sound you like as most will say on here do not buy blind demo first it's very important

 

[gasolin]

for £700 you could get the marantz pm6005 + marantz cd6005 , dali 3 speakers all 3 have won what hifi awards for the last 2 years . lots of marantz pm6005 + marantz cd6005 on ebay secondhand or new as richer sounds have a sale on now the marantz pm6005 + cd player have come down in price as the amp is now £245 & so is the cd player £245 both were £350 each last year . both sound very good with metal music as this is what i had before i upgraded to the marantz pm8005 and the dali 3s are good value for money but not sure what price this are now but would of thought they have come down in price too .

that sounds like a pretty good deal but the question i had at the start of this thread that i still dont really know the answer to pertains to wattage, at 45w per channel on the marantz does it have the power needed to get loud? i do like to crank up the volume and i feel like i might be asking just a bit to much of it

Then you need a someting like Q acoustics 2050i with a sensitivity 92 db with the marantz pm6005 or a used nad c370/372 with what ever you like as long as it's not some small wharfedales diamond 220, if you like to play loud 6½ woofer or bigger

Mabye a used pair of Dynaudio DM 2/7 with a nad c370/372 more the 150 watt pr channel in 4 ohm

 

[gasolin]

There is the yamha as701 for £399 that's a 100 watts per channel but then you would need a good set of speakers the Dali 3s should be OK as they are rated 120 watts handling and then you could go marantz cd 6005 or the cheaper 5005 they both use the same dac in side but with the speakers do you want floor standing or book shelf speakers ? Because I found that when I used the Dali 3s even though they are good the floor standing speakers are better for metal music because you get better lower bass and a bigger sound stage . But as your after a 100 watt amp most of your budget will end up on the amp unless your happy to look at secondhand but I do recommend that you go and have a demo at a hi fi shop to see what kind of sound you like as most will say on here do not buy blind demo first it's very important

Or a yamaha R-N301 it has 2x100watt rms in 8 ohm and costs only 199£ http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/yamaha/rn301/yama-rn301-blk speakers could be the Q acoustics 20050i, Dali zensor 3 or mabye Dynaudio DM 2/7

 

[davedotco]

that sounds like a pretty good deal but the question i had at the start of this thread that i still dont really know the answer to pertains to wattage, at 45w per channel on the marantz does it have the power needed to get loud? i do like to crank up the volume and i feel like i might be asking just a bit to much of it

This is the crux of this, right there.

Forget power ratings, just how loud to you want it to go? That really is what is important here.

Take a look at the recent treads on here about 'How much power do I need', bit of a long read but worthwhile before you go out and spend your money.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

thank you for all of your suggestions and advice, helped me out alot

i have now oredered the dali zensors 3's and a used nad c370 with it being used fingers crossed everything is ok with it, i know buying without hearing first is kind of a no no but if i dont like it i can always send it back

the only question i have left is how would i hook a turntable up to the c370? i dont see any phono inputs on it

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

[/quote]

This is the crux of this, right there.

Forget power ratings, just how loud to you want it to go? That really is what is important here.

Take a look at the recent treads on here about 'How much power do I need', bit of a long read but worthwhile before you go out and spend your money.

[/quote]

thanks ill take a look

kinda to late though i already spent my money on a nad c370 and dali zensor 3 speakers

the power thing goes back to when i was a kid, my mother was big into hi-fi stuff and she never looked at anything that had less than 1000w so when i see something that says 40-50w i think back to that, the last stereo she got she still has its a kenwood, something around the 1000w range its atleast 20 years old now and it still works and it sounds amazing and goes insanely loud without distortion

i have tried to get it off her many times but she wont let me have it lol

 

[gasolin]

You need to buy a phono stage the nad phonstage,riia should not cost more then 50£ used or you can get one a new from project (mm) for 50£

http://www.richersounds.com/product/turntable-accessories/project/phono-box-mm/proj-phono-box-mm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Ject-Project-Phono-Box-E-MM-Phono-Stage-Black-/191764260603?hash=item2ca60a66fb:g:QGcAAOSwymxVOgwQ

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

You need to buy a phono stage the nad phonstage,riia should not cost more then 50£ used or you can get one a new from project (mm) for 50£

http://www.richersounds.com/product/turntable-accessories/project/phono-box-mm/proj-phono-box-mm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Ject-Project-Phono-Box-E-MM-Phono-Stage-Black-/191764260603?hash=item2ca60a66fb:g:QGcAAOSwymxVOgwQ

that looks simple enough, thanks 🙂

is it possible to get a turntable that has that box built into it just to save me having an extra box and an extra power cable?

 

[gasolin]

This is the crux of this, right there.

Forget power ratings, just how loud to you want it to go? That really is what is important here.

Take a look at the recent treads on here about 'How much power do I need', bit of a long read but worthwhile before you go out and spend your money.

[/quote]

thanks ill take a look

kinda to late though i already spent my money on a nad c370 and dali zensor 3 speakers

the power thing goes back to when i was a kid, my mother was big into hi-fi stuff and she never looked at anything that had less than 1000w so when i see something that says 40-50w i think back to that, the last stereo she got she still has its a kenwood, something around the 1000w range its atleast 20 years old now and it still works and it sounds amazing and goes insanely loud without distortion

i have tried to get it off her many times but she wont let me have it lol

[/quote]

ha ha a 1000 watt must have been how much electricity it used not watt or only 100watt, back in the old days speakers had very good sensitivity and big woofers (they could be very loud), compared to the small speakers with low sensistivity and hig waf we have today

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

i was there in the store and thats what the guy said wether its true or not who knows but it does crazy loud and sounds better than anything i have ever heard and i have always put my faith in the numbers, 1000w sounds impressive and 50w doesnt but what 1000w as opposed to 50w actualy means i have no idea

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

The arcam a85 and dali ikon 1 mk2 I told you about earlier will better what you've just bought and the arcam came with the inbuilt phono stage,really some folks just don't listen.the quality of music from an amp doesn't solely come down to how powerful it is,it's much more complex than that,power supplies,circuitry and more all come into play and those ikon speakers by dali are above the zensor in the range.also the kenwood stereo of yesteryear were OK but not what you'd call proper hifi and they did have a bit of distortion as I remember.A half decent 50/60 watt amp would out do it no probs.Going by your way of thinking,my 60 watts per channel (1500 on release)naim nait xs will be not worth a second look as you believe something cheaper but with 100 watts per channel would be louder and have better control.oh dear,I think you maybe need to do a bit more research on the subject before spending any more cash.it ain't all about watts!

 

[Blacksabbath25]

there would of been all the power you would need out of the marantz pm6005 even at 45 watts per channal its loud thats why i said get a demo done also the pm6005 has a phone stage without spending more on one . its your money and your choice good luck

 

[rainsoothe]

The arcam a85 and dali ikon 1 mk2 I told you about earlier will better what you've just bought and the arcam came with the inbuilt phono stage,really some folks just don't listen.the quality of music from an amp doesn't solely come down to how powerful it is,it's much more complex than that,power supplies,circuitry and more all come into play and those ikon speakers by dali are above the zensor in the range.also the kenwood stereo of yesteryear were OK but not what you'd call proper hifi and they did have a bit of distortion as I remember.A half decent 50/60 watt amp would out do it no probs.Going by your way of thinking,my 60 watts per channel (1500 on release)naim nait xs will be not worth a second look as you believe something cheaper but with 100 watts per channel would be louder and have better control.oh dear,I think you maybe need to do a bit more research on the subject before spending any more cash.it ain't all about watts!

Hi. Was gonna +1 this suggestion. But Nad + Dali is a capable combo too. Imo, the Yamaha amps sound really wimpy, their midrange is almost completely absent and bass has no punch and definition.

About watts, just so you understand, the wattage mentioned on the speaker just means the limits of the speaker. As a general rule, it's better to have an amp that has more wattage than a speaker can handle, but you just don't crank the volume all the way up (something you, most likely, will never do anyways). Also, doubling the watts, just means a 3 decibel increase in percieved volume, so a 100w amp won't sound twice as loud as a 50w amp, it will just sound 3 decibel louder (which is barely noticeable). But more watts will mean better control over the speaker drivers, which means better sound. In normal use, your amp will be doing like 5-10 watts, or something like that. So again, don't mind the watts stuff 🙂

Oh, and enjoy your new purchase. Later on, if you have the cash, try to find a used Naim Supernait 1 + a pair of Sonus Faber Toy Towers.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Bump

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

The arcam a85 and dali ikon 1 mk2 I told you about earlier will better what you've just bought and the arcam came with the inbuilt phono stage,really some folks just don't listen.the quality of music from an amp doesn't solely come down to how powerful it is,it's much more complex than that,power supplies,circuitry and more all come into play and those ikon speakers by dali are above the zensor in the range.also the kenwood stereo of yesteryear were OK but not what you'd call proper hifi and they did have a bit of distortion as I remember.A half decent 50/60 watt amp would out do it no probs.Going by your way of thinking,my 60 watts per channel (1500 on release)naim nait xs will be not worth a second look as you believe something cheaper but with 100 watts per channel would be louder and have better control.oh dear,I think you maybe need to do a bit more research on the subject before spending any more cash.it ain't all about watts!

i listened to everything you had to say and i did seriously consider the arcam i chose the nad with both of them being used the seller of the nad just seemed a little more realible than the seller of the arcam the nad was also going a touch cheaper than the arcam, i didnt make the decision based on wattage i made it based on price and my appraisal of the seller, the turntable i was planning on buying also have a built in phonostage so no extra money needed there

as for the speakers i did once again seriously consider the dali ikon 1 mk2 but i found a good deal on the zensor 3 and the mk2 was a little more than i really wanted to spend in the first place, the zensor is very well reviewed so im sure it will be more than enough for me

i have done quite alot of research on the subject of wattage and always come away more confused then when i started, some people say more watts = more power, more control or both and some say it means very little, i started this thread asking questions about watts and what it actualy means and nobody answered those questions i was just told you will be fine with this or you will be fine with that and for someone that doesnt really know what they are doing when it comes to this kind of stuff that doesnt help me at all

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Well we are lovers of hifi and not electronic engineers and can advise on what will help work for you,some on the forum are very well versed on how the electronics work in amps,speakers etc,but on the whole you seemed more concerned about power and watts as opposed to actual sound quality,just because an amp has impressive wattage figures doesn't actually mean that it's any good,yes it might go loud,(SO DO THEY ALL).but that doesn't mean it can hold it together when you start to crank it up as you say.Also when you start to go up the food chain so to speak,amplifiers from the likes of arcam,roksan,Creek,naim and cyrus to name but a few will reveal more of the music,detail retrieval,refinement and excellent dynamics will all come to the fore.thats why they're expensive and then further up still you have the amps with the big watts to back up the detail and refinement and these are the ones for driving difficult speakers such as atc,pmc and some higher end focals,low sensitivity speakers =more watts needed from the amp to keep them under control . think of 85db and lower as a difficult to drive speaker and 88-92 as a nice easy load on a amp.But there is some exceptions to this rule for example my own pmc twenty 21's on paper look like an easy speaker to drive but they crave an amp with a hefty power supply and I don't ask questions why this is,it just is.so my rule of thumb is to keep everything in balance ie speakers,amp in the same kind of price bracket,a good source is important also but not as critical as amp and speaker matching.hope I've helped a bit.

 

[rainsoothe]

The arcam a85 and dali ikon 1 mk2 I told you about earlier will better what you've just bought and the arcam came with the inbuilt phono stage,really some folks just don't listen.the quality of music from an amp doesn't solely come down to how powerful it is,it's much more complex than that,power supplies,circuitry and more all come into play and those ikon speakers by dali are above the zensor in the range.also the kenwood stereo of yesteryear were OK but not what you'd call proper hifi and they did have a bit of distortion as I remember.A half decent 50/60 watt amp would out do it no probs.Going by your way of thinking,my 60 watts per channel (1500 on release)naim nait xs will be not worth a second look as you believe something cheaper but with 100 watts per channel would be louder and have better control.oh dear,I think you maybe need to do a bit more research on the subject before spending any more cash.it ain't all about watts!

i listened to everything you had to say and i did seriously consider the arcam i chose the nad with both of them being used the seller of the nad just seemed a little more realible than the seller of the arcam the nad was also going a touch cheaper than the arcam, i didnt make the decision based on wattage i made it based on price and my appraisal of the seller, the turntable i was planning on buying also have a built in phonostage so no extra money needed there

as for the speakers i did once again seriously consider the dali ikon 1 mk2 but i found a good deal on the zensor 3 and the mk2 was a little more than i really wanted to spend in the first place, the zensor is very well reviewed so im sure it will be more than enough for me

i have done quite alot of research on the subject of wattage and always come away more confused then when i started, some people say more watts = more power, more control or both and some say it means very little, i started this thread asking questions about watts and what it actualy means and nobody answered those questions i was just told you will be fine with this or you will be fine with that and for someone that doesnt really know what they are doing when it comes to this kind of stuff that doesnt help me at all

watts do matter, but they're not everything. The whole matters: amp watts + speaker impedance + speaker sensitivity. A 87db sensitivity, 8 ohm speaker, driven by a 100w/ch amp will sound equally loud to a 90db sensitivity, 8 ohm speaker, driven by a 50w/ch amp.

Watt ratings on the speaker don't matter as much as amp ratings on amps - they're there to present you the stable limits of the speaker, and of course you're gonna blow up a 80w max speaker with a 2000w/channel amp IF you crank the volume up. But at entry level, most products are safe to be used with one another.

Yes, if you wanna drive speakers that have 85 or 86db sensitivity (like the highly regarded ATC SCM11), a 45 w/ch amp will struggle. It won't necessarily damage it (if you don't turn the volume all the way up), but it won't be able to control the drivers - meaning slouchy, muddy bass, etc.

And by the way, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad about the purchase or anything, I was just trying to clear things up a bit, but it appears I've done the opposite.

Anyway, let us know how you enjoy your new toys 🙂

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

you didnt make me feel bad about it, i appreciate everything you have had to say and everything everyone else has had to say

and just so things are clear mark rose-smith i did listen to everything you had to say and considered all your suggestions im sorry if it didnt seem that way but i also had other suggestions to consider aswell, maybe i could have done better with the setup but to be honest the best set of speakers i have ever had was a £30 2.1 set of logitech speakers so im sure ANY hi-fi equipment is gonna sound good to me

thanks to all of you and ill let you know how i get on with it all 🙂

 

[NMANo1]

If you only had Logitek speakers then you have made a fabulous choice because you've taken your first steps into Hifi, which stands for High Fidelity. You'll be lucky to get fidelity with those kind of cheapo desktop speakers. I also think the Nad/Dali combo is better suited to your type of music. I've owned both Nad & Arcam amps (& CD player) in the past & I also share your penchant for the dark & metally side of rock.

Next is get a nice Rega or Project turntable ( or/& CD player ) & get away from those nasty sound card things. #audioluddite

Well done & enjoy your setup for at least a couple of years while you get a library of LP's or a cabinet of CDs together before the inevitable upgradeitis bug bites.

p.s. You will definitely need speaker stands, the heavier the better.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Hay Mark,was only some friendly advice bud and trying to get you the most bang for your buck but enjoy your new set up and I'm pretty sure it'll sound a bit different from what you've been used to.in a good way of course.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_509759325851373]

Hay Mark,was only some friendly advice bud and trying to get you the most bang for your buck but enjoy your new set up and I'm pretty sure it'll sound a bit different from what you've been used to.in a good way of course.

i have everything setup now and it does sound incredible i am having a little bit of a problem with the speakers sitting on the desk the sound especialy the bass resonates through the desk and doesnt sound very nice, i believe it was you who mentioned stands wich is why im directing this at you

i have had a look at a few different kinds of stand and i dont really think i have the space for them atleast not till i move my setup upstairs wich is going to take a while because im redoing that whole room so im looking for a solution to isolate the speakers from the desk

i found this on amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Auralex-MoPad-Monitor-Isolation-Pads/dp/B00266HBSU

do you think that will help at all?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Yeah,I've heard good things about the mopads,they could be what your looking for if stands aren't a possibility at the moment.