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Sorry now looking for a good streamer

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DougK

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2013
1,011
651
20,070
newlash09 said:
And ripped CD's from NAS usually sound better than CD player too.
Says the man who has a CD player but no CDs! *ROFL* Sorry Newlash but you left yourself wide open for that one mate, no offence meant *drinks*

I have never found a difference between CDs and ripped CDs, they sound identical, maybe because both my CD player and my streamer have the same DAC chip. I've also never heard a difference between CD and flac.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
DougK said:
newlash09 said:
And ripped CD's from NAS usually sound better than CD player too.
Says the man who has a CD player but no CDs! *ROFL* Sorry Newlash but you left yourself wide open for that one mate, no offence meant *drinks*

I have never found a difference between CDs and ripped CDs, they sound identical, maybe because both my CD player and my streamer have the same DAC chip. I've also never heard a difference between CD and flac.
All those reviewers can't possibly be talking crap?
Can they?
Oh yes they do
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
No disrespect taken.

My approach is not to tell anyone what to buy. I will talk about my experience and then advise going to listen.

If the much cheaper Digital Source sounds as good as a Linn (or any other more expensive Streamer)....then Happy Days. If not, buy it if the improvement gives VFM.
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
974
172
19,070
Tidal hifi a tablet or phone and something wireless to use with your amp

Might not be high end but a chroemcast audio and a phone that's an easy way of streaming to your tv or pc if possible

Why make it any harder with a nas,trying to set it up and ripping 100's of cd's ?
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
To be honest I am like teaching an old dog new tricks as I am still in love with the CD player that’s the trouble so I am a bit conflicted in what direction to turn so I will take my time in which direction to go so it might be speakers it might be the Yamaha cds3000

Or a better Dac like the new chord 2 which was my thoughts before changing it to speakers and buying the Gaia 2s at the same time which would do two jobs improve my speakers more and improve my CD players Dac .

This is what conflicts me about an expensive streamer your paying for a good power supply and Dac which in turn gives better sound then a CD player and your not getting the mechanical noise from the mechanism but very good CD players are very good at isolating the noise from the mechanism and have very good power supply’s the same as a expensive streamer .

As others have said the Yamaha wxc50 does streaming just the same as an expensive one expect it hasn’t got the bigger power supply’s or has a top Dac or the interface but it’s still the same thing but in a basic way

So why not improve the Dac I’ve got from my Yamaha cds2100 and in turn this would improve the Yamaha wxc50 sound at the same time or buy a streamer with a good power supply but without Dac and buy my own choice of Dac ? Just some stuff I’ve been thinking about *smile*
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
I will just keep building the money up while I decided what way to go and do some demo’s in some shops and see what you get for the money but I would probably say the sensible thing to do is keep saving for better speakers
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
You still own the CDs when you rip them to storage.

A cd is only a storage medium.

I'm warning you that you will not get the improvement you think by changing the dac.
Very very subtle at best.

If you.want a change
Speakers are the way to go.

I get the feeling you just want to buy something
I don't mean that in a harsh way.
 

Oie

New member
Jan 30, 2015
1
0
0
Hi BS,

A little computer (I use a fanless NUC with a ssd HD) will allow you to listen to audio and watch video. I use JRiver although there are other options.

You need external storage (Best a NAS although external HDD would suffice), computer with software and external DAC.

This way you have the flexibility of watching videos as well and if something breaks down, is easily replaceable.

Regards,

O
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
Andrewjvt said:
You still own the CDs when you rip them to storage.

A cd is only a storage medium.

I'm warning you that you will not get the improvement you think by changing the dac. Very very subtle at best.

If you.want a change Speakers are the way to go.

I get the feeling you just want to buy something I don't mean that in a harsh way.
well I saved for ages to buy some speakers and now I have the money that I saved for that I haven’t brought the speakers so probably best to do it right and keep saving for the Dali epicon 6s job done just as good as Kef reference 3s
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
Oie said:
Hi BS,

A little computer (I use a fanless NUC with a ssd HD) will allow you to listen to audio and watch video. I use JRiver although there are other options.

You need external storage (Best a NAS although external HDD would suffice), computer with software and external DAC.

This way you have the flexibility of watching videos as well and if something breaks down, is easily replaceable.

Regards,

O
thanks I think it’s best if I hold fire on buying anything at the moment and just keep saving the money and decide when I am sure what’s right for me but probably speakers to honest *smile*
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
I think you should take on board both approaches ie. Cheap vs Expensive, and then make up your own mind by listening.

When it comes to Amps....you listen to different brands at different prices and make your choice.

When it comes to Speakers....you listen to different voicing and choose something that fits your taste, Amp room and budget.

When it comes to a Digital Source...I take exactly the same approach.

There is no doubt that the nature of digital (compared to Vinyl), means it doesn't need to take up as big a percentage of the total system.

There are certainly different ways to skin a cat and there will be a premium to be paid for the likes of Linn, Naim and Cyrus....but they will hold their value on the used Market.

The one area that myself and Daveh75 probably agree on, is that the music should be ripped onto a NAS and accessed from there. Like you, I was convinced that my CDP was all I needed and didn't want to get involved in new-fangled Streaming. After a demo, I changed my mind and after using it for a few years, I'd never go back.

The best half sensibly priced CDP that I've heard, is the the Electro EMC1UP....but you are still having to isolate the motor. IMO. It's better to do away with the problem, than try and work around it.

If you want to hear what spending more on a Digital Source gets you, ask a Linn Dealer to demo the difference between Majik, Akurate and Klimax. I don't say this to push you into a Linn, but allow you to come to a conclusion on whether more money, gets you better SQ. It also gives a benchmark to aim for, no matter what way you approach it.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
CnoEvil said:
I think you should take on board both approaches ie. Cheap vs Expensive, and then make up your own mind by listening.

When it comes to Amps....you listen to different brands at different prices and make your choice.

When it comes to Speakers....you listen to different voicing and choose something that fits your taste, Amp room and budget.

When it comes to a Digital Source...I take exactly the same approach.

There is no doubt that the nature of digital (compared to Vinyl), means it doesn't need to take up as big a percentage of the total system.

There are certainly different ways to skin a cat and there will be a premium to be paid for the likes of Linn, Naim and Cyrus....but they will hold their value on the used Market.

The one area that myself and Daveh75 probably agree on, is that the music should be ripped onto a NAS and accessed from there. Like you, I was convinced that my CDP was all I needed and didn't want to get involved in new-fangled Streaming. After a demo, I changed my mind and after using it for a few years, I'd never go back.

The best half sensibly priced CDP that I've heard, is the the Electro EMC1UP....but you are still having to isolate the motor. IMO. It's better to do away with the problem, than try and work around it.

If you want to hear what spending more on a Digital Source gets you, ask a Linn Dealer to demo the difference between Majik, Akurate and Klimax. I don't say this to push you into a Linn, but allow you to come to a conclusion on whether more money, gets you better SQ. It also gives a benchmark to aim for, no matter what way you approach it.
as I’ve said in the above posts I will keep saving my money and at the same time look what’s around without buying it *smile* so I get a understanding what’s out there for myself so sorry if I wasted your time .

But I will start with demoing different kinds of speakers first to see what else is out there apart from Dali as my thoughts are upgrading the speakers and I’ve rushed things a little here so I will slow down now and just look around
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
The decision to buy a Good streamer is a long term one - a decision to change the way you control and consume music in the main - doing away with the disc spinner - pretty pointless having both really if your investing serious coin in the streamer it makes sense for it to be the main source.

If your still happy to stick a disc in and control from a remote then thats great, means you dont Need to buy - to me still using the CD seems like the idea of hell because of the hassle - mad how you adapt and become even lazier than you already are.

If you want the speakers most save for them, in the mean time get out and get listening and learning - not from people on here, except me of course, from actual hands on experience. Get out and have some demos - listen to different speakers as well. You will need to experiment if your Yamaha amp is enough for the Epicons as well. No gaurantee mate you need to try it.

Just buying the better speakers doesnt gaurantee the money spent in sound quality improvement either - it just means there is more capability there you might have to eek out of them - otherwise you will end up blaming law dimishing returns when really its just you need to do more to get more.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
ellisdj said:
The decision to buy a Good streamer is a long term one - a decision to change the way you control and consume music in the main - doing away with the disc spinner - pretty pointless having both really if your investing serious coin in the streamer it makes sense for it to be the main source.

If your still happy to stick a disc in and control from a remote then thats great, means you dont Need to buy - to me still using the CD seems like the idea of hell because of the hassle - mad how you adapt and become even lazier than you already are.

If you want the speakers most save for them, in the mean time get out and get listening and learning - not from people on here, except me of course, from actual hands on experience. Get out and have some demos - listen to different speakers as well. You will need to experiment if your Yamaha amp is enough for the Epicons as well. No gaurantee mate you need to try it.

Just buying the better speakers doesnt gaurantee the money spent in sound quality improvement either - it just means there is more capability there you might have to eek out of them - otherwise you will end up blaming law dimishing returns when really its just you need to do more to get more.
So what about with my current speakers and buying the Gaia 2s and the chord Dac that you have would that be wise choice ?
 

Strictly Stereo

Well-known member
Jan 29, 2018
2
0
520
Blacksabbath25 said:
To be honest I am like teaching an old dog new tricks as I am still in love with the CD player that’s the trouble so I am a bit conflicted in what direction to turn so I will take my time in which direction to go so it might be speakers it might be the Yamaha cds3000

Or a better Dac like the new chord 2 which was my thoughts before changing it to speakers and buying the Gaia 2s at the same time which would do two jobs improve my speakers more and improve my CD players Dac .

This is what conflicts me about an expensive streamer your paying for a good power supply and Dac which in turn gives better sound then a CD player and your not getting the mechanical noise from the mechanism but very good CD players are very good at isolating the noise from the mechanism and have very good power supply’s the same as a expensive streamer .

As others have said the Yamaha wxc50 does streaming just the same as an expensive one expect it hasn’t got the bigger power supply’s or has a top Dac or the interface but it’s still the same thing but in a basic way

So why not improve the Dac I’ve got from my Yamaha cds2100 and in turn this would improve the Yamaha wxc50 sound at the same time or buy a streamer with a good power supply but without Dac and buy my own choice of Dac ? Just some stuff I’ve been thinking about *smile*
There are many different possibilities. What works for someone else may not be ideal for you. I recommend having a think about what features you really need, what type of streaming services you might use (local streaming of CD rips and digital downloads, Internet radio and paid subscription services like TIDAL and Spotify) and how you would like to control things (remote handset, tablet app etc).

There are some great sounding options available which combine a streamer, server and DAC in one box, as well as options which also include CD ripping. Moving to two boxes increases the range of options considerably.

I do think that streamers and music servers have an inherent advantage over CD players, in that they are not required to read the data in realtime. When I CD runs into difficulty reading a portion of a disc, due to a scratch, manufacturing error or just some dirt, it has a very limited window in which to do something about it. Typically, most CD players react to problems by muting the output. A streamer or music server can read further ahead and has the option of requesting that missing data is retransmitted, either from the server (in the case of a streamer) or from the disk (in the case of a server).

There is also some benefit to having the transport (either CD, streamer or server) and the DAC sharing the same clock. This eliminates one of the challenges of moving digital audio streams (as distinct from files) between devices. Strictly speaking this does not mean that they have to be in the same box, although that will often be the case with home audio.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
Strictly Stereo said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
To be honest I am like teaching an old dog new tricks as I am still in love with the CD player that’s the trouble so I am a bit conflicted in what direction to turn so I will take my time in which direction to go so it might be speakers it might be the Yamaha cds3000

Or a better Dac like the new chord 2 which was my thoughts before changing it to speakers and buying the Gaia 2s at the same time which would do two jobs improve my speakers more and improve my CD players Dac .

This is what conflicts me about an expensive streamer your paying for a good power supply and Dac which in turn gives better sound then a CD player and your not getting the mechanical noise from the mechanism but very good CD players are very good at isolating the noise from the mechanism and have very good power supply’s the same as a expensive streamer .

As others have said the Yamaha wxc50 does streaming just the same as an expensive one expect it hasn’t got the bigger power supply’s or has a top Dac or the interface but it’s still the same thing but in a basic way

So why not improve the Dac I’ve got from my Yamaha cds2100 and in turn this would improve the Yamaha wxc50 sound at the same time or buy a streamer with a good power supply but without Dac and buy my own choice of Dac ? Just some stuff I’ve been thinking about *smile*
There are many different possibilities. What works for someone else may not be ideal for you. I recommend having a think about what features you really need, what type of streaming services you might use (local streaming of CD rips and digital downloads, Internet radio and paid subscription services like TIDAL and Spotify) and how you would like to control things (remote handset, tablet app etc).

There are some great sounding options available which combine a streamer, server and DAC in one box, as well as options which also include CD ripping. Moving to two boxes increases the range of options considerably.

I do think that streamers and music servers have an inherent advantage over CD players, in that they are not required to read the data in realtime. When I CD runs into difficulty reading a portion of a disc, due to a scratch, manufacturing error or just some dirt, it has a very limited window in which to do something about it. Typically, most CD players react to problems by muting the output. A streamer or music server can read further ahead and has the option of requesting that missing data is retransmitted, either from the server (in the case of a streamer) or from the disk (in the case of a server).

There is also some benefit to having the transport (either CD, streamer or server) and the DAC sharing the same clock. This eliminates one of the challenges of moving digital audio streams (as distinct from files) between devices. Strictly speaking this does not mean that they have to be in the same box, although that will often be the case with home audio.
thanks for taking the time to write that lot yes I agree I do need to look what’s out there but I do use my iPad to select albums with my Yamaha wxc50 which I like and I would be using tidal hifi

And I like the idea not being tide to a streamer that has its own Dac I would like to buy my own Dac
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
974
172
19,070
Another thought

logitch squeezebox and then upgrade it https://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/squeezebox-82-c.asp

Definitely some Isoacoustics stands,isolation feet, i have for many years 5 year and i would never use anything else

What you could do is try these (you need 2 pair) they are not as expensive as the gaia 2's https://mcru.co.uk/product/deflex-audio-superpods/?v=dd65ef9a5579

one customer

So, I placed these feet under loudspeakers. And then I have got a new sound. Spatial and wide, deep bass and natural midrange. Loudspeakers are not localized in space. I tried many different feet (cones, isolators, spikes) but Superpods turned out better for me. Higly recommended.”
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
1
0
Blacksabbath25 said:
ellisdj said:
The decision to buy a Good streamer is a long term one - a decision to change the way you control and consume music in the main - doing away with the disc spinner - pretty pointless having both really if your investing serious coin in the streamer it makes sense for it to be the main source.

If your still happy to stick a disc in and control from a remote then thats great, means you dont Need to buy - to me still using the CD seems like the idea of hell because of the hassle - mad how you adapt and become even lazier than you already are.

If you want the speakers most save for them, in the mean time get out and get listening and learning - not from people on here, except me of course, from actual hands on experience. Get out and have some demos - listen to different speakers as well. You will need to experiment if your Yamaha amp is enough for the Epicons as well. No gaurantee mate you need to try it.

Just buying the better speakers doesnt gaurantee the money spent in sound quality improvement either - it just means there is more capability there you might have to eek out of them - otherwise you will end up blaming law dimishing returns when really its just you need to do more to get more.
So what about with my current speakers and buying the Gaia 2s and the chord Dac that you have would that be wise choice ?
If the end game is heavier speakers you need to make sure the GAIA II will support that weight - in a way it seems crazy to buy something with the future in mind but if you know 100% you will buy better speakers in the future then it makes sense really.

A great dac is a sensible purchase, it cant be a bad purchase whatever way you look at it. The Qutest is a great buy so long as you wont want mQA in the future.

What I have noticed is that the Qutest performance qualty was more obvious when I had the better Luxman in the system.

I.e. its like a lot of things - to hear whats its really capable of it needs to be among the right bits - thats no different to anything. Because its relatively inexpensve doesnt mean its out of place in bigger company - hope that comes across right
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
gasolin said:
Another thought

logitch squeezebox and then upgrade it https://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/squeezebox-82-c.asp

Definitely some Isoacoustics stands,isolation feet, i have for many years 5 year and i would never use anything else

What you could do is try these (you need 2 pair) they are not as expensive as the gaia 2's https://mcru.co.uk/product/deflex-audio-superpods/?v=dd65ef9a5579

one customer

So, I placed these feet under loudspeakers. And then I have got a new sound. Spatial and wide, deep bass and natural midrange. Loudspeakers are not localized in space. I tried many different feet (cones, isolators, spikes) but Superpods turned out better for me. Higly recommended.”
I’ve been looking at the Gaia 2s for ages and yes I would need to pairs £600 and I’ve followed Ellisdj videos on them two
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
ellisdj said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
ellisdj said:
The decision to buy a Good streamer is a long term one - a decision to change the way you control and consume music in the main - doing away with the disc spinner - pretty pointless having both really if your investing serious coin in the streamer it makes sense for it to be the main source.

If your still happy to stick a disc in and control from a remote then thats great, means you dont Need to buy - to me still using the CD seems like the idea of hell because of the hassle - mad how you adapt and become even lazier than you already are.

If you want the speakers most save for them, in the mean time get out and get listening and learning - not from people on here, except me of course, from actual hands on experience. Get out and have some demos - listen to different speakers as well. You will need to experiment if your Yamaha amp is enough for the Epicons as well. No gaurantee mate you need to try it.

Just buying the better speakers doesnt gaurantee the money spent in sound quality improvement either - it just means there is more capability there you might have to eek out of them - otherwise you will end up blaming law dimishing returns when really its just you need to do more to get more.
So what about with my current speakers and buying the Gaia 2s and the chord Dac that you have would that be wise choice ?
If the end game is heavier speakers you need to make sure the GAIA II will support that weight - in a way it seems crazy to buy something with the future in mind but if you know 100% you will buy better speakers in the future then it makes sense really.

A great dac is a sensible purchase, it cant be a bad purchase whatever way you look at it. The Qutest is a great buy so long as you wont want mQA in the future.

What I have noticed is that the Qutest performance qualty was more obvious when I had the better Luxman in the system.

I.e. its like a lot of things - to hear whats its really capable of it needs to be among the right bits - thats no different to anything. Because its relatively inexpensve doesnt mean its out of place in bigger company - hope that comes across right
yes as you know I’ve been interested in both things the chord Dac and the Gaia 2s for quite a while now but got told on here there’s not much differences between Dac’s which put me off to be honest but the only way I am going to know is try and get that chord Dac on home trail if I can so I do not risk my money if it doesn’t work out for me
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
My friend, you most certainly have not waisted my time.

I'm here to talk about Hifi, learn from others and share my experience, in case it's of use to anyone.

I think you are taking exactly the right approach, by backing off, assessing your options and giving yourself time to hear different bits of kit.

IME. A good system is about synergy and balance. The better the speakers, the more they highlight any deficiencies in the Source and the better the Amp they need to perform as they should.
You will never unbalance a system by putting in a better Source (provided you like the sound)....but you can waste money spending more on it than is necessary. Eg. Putting a Klimax DS with an Arcam A29 and Kef R100s.

You can certainly unbalance a system by sticking expensive speakers on a cheap system.

An expensive Amp generally improves a system, unless the source is poor.
 

gasolin

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2013
974
172
19,070
ellisdj said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
ellisdj said:
The decision to buy a Good streamer is a long term one - a decision to change the way you control and consume music in the main - doing away with the disc spinner - pretty pointless having both really if your investing serious coin in the streamer it makes sense for it to be the main source.

If your still happy to stick a disc in and control from a remote then thats great, means you dont Need to buy - to me still using the CD seems like the idea of hell because of the hassle - mad how you adapt and become even lazier than you already are.

If you want the speakers most save for them, in the mean time get out and get listening and learning - not from people on here, except me of course, from actual hands on experience. Get out and have some demos - listen to different speakers as well. You will need to experiment if your Yamaha amp is enough for the Epicons as well. No gaurantee mate you need to try it.

Just buying the better speakers doesnt gaurantee the money spent in sound quality improvement either - it just means there is more capability there you might have to eek out of them - otherwise you will end up blaming law dimishing returns when really its just you need to do more to get more.
So what about with my current speakers and buying the Gaia 2s and the chord Dac that you have would that be wise choice ?
If the end game is heavier speakers you need to make sure the GAIA II will support that weight - in a way it seems crazy to buy something with the future in mind but if you know 100% you will buy better speakers in the future then it makes sense really.

A great dac is a sensible purchase, it cant be a bad purchase whatever way you look at it. The Qutest is a great buy so long as you wont want mQA in the future.

What I have noticed is that the Qutest performance qualty was more obvious when I had the better Luxman in the system.

I.e. its like a lot of things - to hear whats its really capable of it needs to be among the right bits - thats no different to anything. Because its relatively inexpensve doesnt mean its out of place in bigger company - hope that comes across right
There is also Gaia I 100kg
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
219
45
10,820
DougK said:
newlash09 said:
And ripped CD's from NAS usually sound better than CD player too.
Says the man who has a CD player but no CDs! *ROFL* Sorry Newlash but you left yourself wide open for that one mate, no offence meant *drinks*

I have never found a difference between CDs and ripped CDs, they sound identical, maybe because both my CD player and my streamer have the same DAC chip. I've also never heard a difference between CD and flac.
Most of what I say are snippets from what I read online :)

So it could be either ways...no offence taken at all...feel free to shoot :)
 

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