Sonos Trueplay

[andyjm]

So, the world has changed.

For those who follow these things, the car world changed forever a few months ago when Tesla instroduced the P90D. A seven seat (electric) family car with a 0 to 60 time of 2.8 seconds now outperforms pretty much every car available except a very small number of extremely expensive supercars made in tiny quantities. Head of Aston Martin said the performance of the Tesla was 'stupid', I guess while he figured out how to explain to all his sportcar buyers that the (slower) Aston was still a world beating sportscar.

The same is now true of speakers. While it may or may not work as well as advertised, Sonos are selling a multi driver, multi amp, DSP wireless speaker that can be corrected for room effects and position by simply using an iOS phone to measure room response.

While the real ale, bearded guys are arguing about speaker cables, greasing the main bearing on their turntable, the smart guys are plonking down a play 5, waving their phone around and achieving better performance.

How cool is this....

 

[Andy Clough]

Interesting, isn't it. I've heard too many hi-fi dealers telling me that "Sonos is killing hi-fi", but the fact is Sonos has created a mainstream product that perfectly meets the needs of many consumers. A bit like Apple. There's still room for 'proper' hi-fi of course, but I've lost count of the number of my friends who have bought Sonos systems and, quite frankly, love them.

 

[MajorFubar]

While the real ale, bearded guys are arguing about speaker cables, greasing the main bearing on their turntable, the smart guys are plonking down a play 5, waving their phone around and achieving better performance.

yeah....stereo is so overrated isn't.

 

[andyjm]

While the real ale, bearded guys are arguing about speaker cables, greasing the main bearing on their turntable, the smart guys are plonking down a play 5, waving their phone around and achieving better performance.

yeah....stereo is so overrated isn't.

....so use two play 5s as a stereo pair. The software does support this.

I am not suggesting that two Sonos play 5s and trueplay software will outperform every amp / speaker combination available on the market today, but the direction of travel of the technology here is clear, and like Tesla, the writing is on the wall for the established manufacturers.

Think of separate speakers and amps as a camera that uses film, or come to that, a car with a diesel engine....

 

[SteveR750]

The interesting bit is built in active room correction. Oh, and can it run off android??

 

[gowiththeflow]

.....can it run off android??

It will be available on iOS first and introduced on Android at a later date.

 

[gowiththeflow]

Sonos are facing increasing competition from other "similar" systems, although none of them have got anything like the market awareness and sales penetration of Sonos.

Everyone from Samsung to Bose, Sony to Denon, B&W to Pure, LG to Philips etc, etc, wants a slice of the action; but as far as I can see, most of these competing products have limited or almost no presence in the marketplace.

Trueplay can only help reinforce Sonos' dominance in this market.

However it's not just Sonos that are making inroads into the "traditional" HiFi arena with new technology. When it comes to sound quality, Devialet's Phantom takes this concept to another level, as do certain wireless active speaker systems specifically aimed at providing "proper HiFi" quality to a "traditional" HiFi audience, such as those from Dynaudio, Elac, Focal etc.

The case for buying traditional separate HiFi components, particularly DAC's, amps and speakers up to a budget of £10,000 is fast flying out of the window.

////

 

[MajorFubar]

Sorry I do see your point and maybe my initial response was a bit flippant and sarcastic. But it was probably because your analogy with the new Tesla is a bit flawed. I don’t know much about the Tesla but your argument seems to be that basically its engine does what engines are supposed to do exceptionally well and leaves legacy technologies like petrol and diesel trailing in its wake. Maybe that’s the case, and if you’re saying the active speaker technology and DSP technology as used in such as the Play 5 has the potential to do the same for HiFi, I can’t really disagree with you because possibly it has. But the way you worded your original post, it was though you were saying owners of Magneplanars and Krell monoblocks should wake up and smell the coffee, chuck them in the bin and go buy a couple of Play 5s instead. If Play 5s are at the pinnacle of what’s possible with their technology (I doubt they are) then compared to the best performing 'legacy' HiFi sportscars they're nothing better than milkfloats, certainly not Teslas. But, just like milkfloats, perhaps they do serve as an early indication of things to come.

 

[Xanderzdad]

.....can it run off android??

It will be available on iOS first and introduced on Android at a later date.

You only need an iOS device to run the Trueplay. iOS, Android & Windows all support Sonos really well for all other functionality.

 

[chebby]

... the way you worded your original post, it was though you were saying owners of Magneplanars and Krell monoblocks should wake up and smell the coffee, chuck them in the bin and go buy a couple of Play 5s instead.

No, they'll be getting a couple of Devialet Phantoms.

 

[tino]

So, the world has changed.

The same is now true of speakers. While it may or may not work as well as advertised, Sonos are selling a multi driver, multi amp, DSP wireless speaker that can be corrected for room effects and position by simply using an iOS phone to measure room response.

They weren't the first ..... Creative produced such a speaker - the D5xm - over 2 years ago and whilst it may not be as good as the Sonos and is Bluetooth only, it is approx a third of the price.

 

[Jota180]

Tesla, the power of ******** marketing. In line with many other large American corporations, they specialise in talking shite.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-owners-frustrated-by-recharge-waits-1435690694

30 minutes to 80% charge their battery which is 10 times faster than their home chargers. How useful is it? Not very in the real world.

 

[The_Lhc]

.....can it run off android??

?

It will be available on iOS first and introduced on Android at a later date.

You only need an iOS device to run the Trueplay.  iOS, Android & Windows all support Sonos really well for all other functionality.

They can't do it on android at the moment as there are thousands of different microphones with different responses, whereas on iPhones there's only about a dozen.

 

[The_Lhc]

Sorry I do see your point and maybe my initial response was a bit flippant and sarcastic. But it was probably because your analogy with the new Tesla is a bit flawed. I don’t know much about the Tesla but your argument seems to be that basically its engine does what engines are supposed to do exceptionally well and leaves legacy technologies like petrol and diesel trailing in its wake. Maybe that’s the case, and if you’re saying the active speaker technology and DSP technology as used in such as the Play 5 has the potential to do the same for HiFi, I can’t really disagree with you because possibly it has. But the way you worded your original post, it was though you were saying owners of Magneplanars and Krell monoblocks should wake up and smell the coffee, chuck them in the bin and go buy a couple of Play 5s instead. If Play 5s are at the pinnacle of what’s possible with their technology (I doubt they are) then compared to the best performing 'legacy' HiFi sportscars they're nothing better than milkfloats, certainly not Teslas. But, just like milkfloats, perhaps they do serve as an early indication of things to come.

How did you get to hear the new play:5 before the rest of us Major? Only asking because I'm sure you'd never dismiss a product in that way without hearing it first.

 

[gowiththeflow]

.....can it run off android??

It will be available on iOS first and introduced on Android at a later date.

You only need an iOS device to run the Trueplay. iOS, Android & Windows all support Sonos really well for all other functionality.

I think he was referring to Trueplay and not general operational control of Sonos.

//

 

[MajorFubar]

How did you get to hear the new play:5 before the rest of us Major? Only asking because I'm sure you'd never dismiss a product in that way without hearing it first.

I haven't and I didn't. What I did say is, in a round about way, I very much doubt it's the second coming of christ that the OP made it out to be. The technology it uses may very well be the future, but compared to what may one day be possible from such technology, it's embryonic, hence my comparison to it being like a milkfloat (tried to keep the Testa analogy going but I look to have failed). I can't see people with a lot of money invested in traditional systems getting too worried about it. Positively, it's another solution to add to the many solutions already available to allow us to listen to our music, and no doubt it will find its niche in the market place.

Interestingly, while I do know of a few workmates who have bought a Sonos speaker of some desciption, I've yet to come across anyone personally who has gone to the trouble of buying two Sonos's (Sonii?) to play as a stereo pair. Says a lot about the average Play buyer I'm afraid and so perhaps all this effort is a bit wasted on their typical clientelle.

 

[bigboss]

Tesla, the power of ******** marketing.  In line with many other large American corporations, they specialise in talking shite.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-owners-frustrated-by-recharge-waits-1435690694

30 minutes to 80% charge their battery which is 10 times faster than their home chargers.  How useful is it?  Not very in the real world.

You don't know What Tesla has achieved then, and how it's superior to every other electric car technology currently available.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516961/how-tesla-is-driving-electric-car-innovation/

 

[SteveR750]

Tesla, the power of ******** marketing.  In line with many other large American corporations, they specialise in talking shite.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-owners-frustrated-by-recharge-waits-1435690694

30 minutes to 80% charge their battery which is 10 times faster than their home chargers.  How useful is it?  Not very in the real world.

You don't know What Tesla has achieved then, and how it's superior to every other electric car technology currently available.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516961/how-tesla-is-driving-electri...

Or the home battery concept. That's even more fundamental, and anti (oil) establishment America

 

[The_Lhc]

 How did you get to hear the new play:5 before the rest of us Major? Only asking because I'm sure you'd never dismiss a product in that way without hearing it first.

I haven't and I didn't. What I did say is, in a round about way, I very much doubt it's the second coming of christ that the OP made it out to be. The technology it uses may very well be the future, but compared to what may one day be possible from such technology, it's embryonic, hence my comparison to it being like a milkfloat (tried to keep the Testa analogy going but I look to have failed). I can't see people with a lot of money invested in traditional systems getting too worried about it. Positively, it's another solution to add to the many solutions already available to allow us to listen to our music, and no doubt it will find its niche in the market place.

Interestingly, while I do know of a few workmates who have bought a Sonos speaker of some desciption, I've yet to come across anyone personally who has gone to the trouble of buying two Sonos's (Sonii?) to play as a stereo pair. Says a lot about the average Play buyer I'm afraid and so perhaps all this effort is a bit wasted on their typical clientelle.

So what you're saying is you have no experience, even second-hand, of the system in question? Expected better of you if I'm honest.

Dsp room correction isn't that embryonic, it's been around for some time, it's just never been that freely available before. If Sonos get this right (and the early indications are that they have got it very right) then I imagine companies like Antimode will be feeling a little uncomfortable with a competitor doing the same thing they do but with just a smartphone and, effectively, for free.

 

[chebby]

I can't see people with a lot of money invested in traditional systems ...

Those words are certainly true.

In a city of 210,000 (including about 24,000 Uni students) we have one small hi-fi shop in one of the scabbiest, lowest rent areas of town amongst closed premises, slot machine emporiums, pound shops, charity shops and various pawn shops. The next nearest hi-fi shops are either 25 or 45 or 50 miles away.

Three of them (including ours) are all Sonos stockists too

The only 'audio' shop that can afford a decent rent in a very popular retail/leisure area is Bose.

Statistically (and by market share) I would hazard a guess that those 'traditional systems' represent a penny or two from every AV £ spent. If that were narrowed to exclude streaming components, stand-alone DACs, wireless etc. then a fraction of a penny from every AV £.

 

[Xanderzdad]

.....can it run off android??

It will be available on iOS first and introduced on Android at a later date.

You only need an iOS device to run the Trueplay. iOS, Android & Windows all support Sonos really well for all other functionality.

I think he was referring to Trueplay and not general operational control of Sonos.

//

In my clumsy way - yes. I was trying to point out the same as LHC, that Sonos works perfectly with all OS - but Trueplay itself is currently only available on iOS for the microphone reason that LHC states. Further testing is currently underway to test feasability on other OS.

 

[MajorFubar]

So what you're saying is you have no experience, even second-hand, of the system in question? Expected better of you if I'm honest.

So what you're saying is, by inferrence that I'm wrong just because i haven't heard it, is that a mono £300 powered wifi speaker with built in DSP has the potential to lay to waste everything that's ever come before it, including defying physics. If you're not saying that, then we probably agree on this more than we disagree. And as for being embryonic, of course it is. Twenty years time we'll look back on these things with the same kind of quaintness we look at pre-2000 mobile phones but at the time we thought they were high-tech porridge-knitters.

 

[bigboss]

So what you're saying is you have no experience, even second-hand, of the system in question? Expected better of you if I'm honest.

So what you're saying is, by inferrence that I'm wrong just because i haven't heard it, is that a mono £300 powered wifi speaker with built in DSP has the potential to lay to waste everything that's ever come before it, including defying physics. If you're not saying that, then we probably agree on this more than we disagree. And as for being embryonic, of course it is. Twenty years time we'll look back on these things with the same kind of quaintness we look at pre-2000 mobile phones but at the time we thought they were high-tech porridge-knitters.

As suggested above, you can play 2 Play:5s in stereo mode. This approach gives the flexibility to use just 1 Play:5 if you don't want or can't afford 2.

 

[Andrew17321]

A single Play 5 works in stereo, There is a single woofer, but 2 speakers on the left firing the left channel left and two on the right firing right. Works pretty well in stereo if you are relatively close to it. I have one in my study just above my computer screen. It is surprisingly good.

It is naturally outclassed by my Arcam and Spendor speakers, and these in turn are outclassed by my new Devialet Phantoms. Now these may well show the future direction of HiFi. All the benefits of Sonos plus the sound quality of huge floor-standers.

 

[MajorFubar]

It is naturally outclassed by my Arcam and Spendor speakers, and these in turn are outclassed by my new Devialet Phantoms. Now these may well show the future direction of HiFi. All the benefits of Sonos plus the sound quality of huge floor-standers.

+1 this is all I was trying to argue for really, a bit of balance. I'm sure they're very good for the price. Perhaps the technology they use really does point in the direction of we're ultimately heading, and if it does, there's going to be so much development in that field in the coming years we haven't scratched the surface yet. Even with the Phantoms.