Sonos low-down (and is it prone to wireless interference?)

[Dan Turner]

OK, so I'm officially at the end of my tether, having failed to resolve the problems I've been having with Airport Express wireless interference over a protracted time period. Whatever it is that's causing the interference that leads to drop-outs when I'm streaming music, I can't resolve it, and I've had just about as much as I can take.

What I need to be able to do is stream to 3 rooms. Currently my music library is stored on my macbook pro and I stream from this to 3 AEs.

I guess the first and most fundamental question is, whether or not a Sonos system streaming wirelessly will be as susceptible to interference as an Apple Airport based system. I think I remember reading somewhere that Sonos uses it's own frequency and is therefore less (not?) prone to interference? If I took the plunge and shelled out for the Sonos, I just don't think I could face these same issues all over again!

So looking in to this I think I'd need the following kit:

A Zonebridge BR100

A Zoneplayer ZP90 (to connect to my main system

2* Zoneplayer ZP120 (might as well replace the systems in kitchen and bedroom whilst I'm at it!)

Possibly a CR200 controller for she who prefers Blackberry to iPhone, Grrr.

As I understand it I'd connect the BR100 to my wireless router - in this instance an Apple Time Capsule - via ethernet. Could I use the Time Capsule's hard drive as the source of my music library? Everything is stored as Apple Lossless files - Will that be OK?

Would I be able to ethernet the ZP90 to my time capsule (the TC is in my lounge where the ZP90 would be used) and do away with the BR100?

Does anyone know what the Sonos system does to the data and in what format it moves it around? I've always felt that I couldn't tell the difference between music streamed via my AE (when working!) or my Mac plugged directly into my amp. I wouldn't want to take a drop in quality with the Sonos system.

Thanks in advance! Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

You can use the time capsule as NAS to store your music and get Sonos to stream it from there, no problem at all. That is the setup I have at home.

However, I regretfully must stress that the Sonos system is not immune to drop-outs despite the marketing talk. I live in a flat in a city environment overloaded with wi-fi networks. Even though the Sonos system is not wi-fi per se, it uses a very similar technology and shares frequencies with the wi-fi networks. I suffer from drop outs and I have tried resolving that a million ways, with and without interacting with Sonos support (who are helpful, by the way). Drop outs are worse in the evenings when all the neighbours use their infrastructure. Cannot find any other reason for them. It really, really spoils the fun.

Things might be different in detached houses or in less populated neighbourhoods.

When it does not drop out, it works beautifully.

 

[Dan Turner]

Artistide - that is the critical information that I wanted above all. I am so fed up of the drop-outs on my Airport Expresses that the only way I can justify going for a Sonos system would be to guarantee eliminating those issues.

Having said that I just remembered the Sonos review from a couple of issues of WHF back and dug that out and answered a lot of my own questions: so at least in my main listening room the ZP90 would be ethernet cabled to the Time Capsule, so there would be no danger of interference there at least.

I live in a residential suburb, in a detached property flat conversion. It's not too dense, but there are quite a few wireless networks around here, and even avoiding the same wireless channels doesn't seem to make any difference.

 

[DaveyBoy1980]

Hi Dan,

For years I have been using a Roku Soundbridge very happily. Never a dropout and great sound quality from wherever I have it in my house. Because of my good experience with wireless music I decided to take the next step and fork out on 2 x S5s and a ZP90. From day one I could never get it to play reliably for more than 5 mins at a time without dropping out, stuttering or hanging completely.

I went through every option possible and tried every combination of wireless channel. The only way I could get it working is by placing them all on the same floor or my house in rooms next to each other!

To me, this defeated the object of buying the system in the first place.

I am not slating the SONOS system as I think it's a genius idea! I just wish it had worked for me!

 

[The_Lhc]

DaveyBoy1980:For years I have been using a Roku Soundbridge very happily. Never a dropout and great sound quality from wherever I have it in my house. Because of my good experience with wireless music I decided to take the next step and fork out on 2 x S5s and a ZP90. From day one I could never get it to play reliably for more than 5 mins at a time without dropping out, stuttering or hanging completely.
I went through every option possible and tried every combination of wireless channel. The only way I could get it working is by placing them all on the same floor or my house in rooms next to each other!

That tells me that it's the house that's causing the problem and that it's not interference but something blocking the signal, like thick walls. I have this problem, I live in a very old house with 2 foot thick stone walls. Understandably wireless signals don't penetrate this very well (at all) so I have to be very careful with the positioning of my Sonos zoneplayers to try to ensure line of sight through doorways or old doorways that have been blocked with plasterboard. It's not something I can blame Sonos for, it's a limitation of where I live. I may start cabling the ZPs if I can hide the cables well enough.

 

[The_Lhc]

Dan Turner:I live in a residential suburb, in a detached property flat conversion. It's not too dense, but there are quite a few wireless networks around here, and even avoiding the same wireless channels doesn't seem to make any difference.

Trouble is there's only so many channels to choose from and it's not enough even to be using a channel next to one that someone else is using because the channels overlap, you need to choose a channel further removed than that.

The amount of overlap between channels (there are 14 of them and each channel overlaps with up to 4 others at some frequency) basically means that your options are limited to channels 1, 6 and 11, so you can see it's not going to take long before you run out completely.

 

[Dan Turner]

the_lhc:
Trouble is there's only so many channels to choose from and it's not enough even to be using a channel next to one that someone else is using because the channels overlap, you need to choose a channel further removed than that.

The amount of overlap between channels (there are 14 of them and each channel overlaps with up to 4 others at some frequency) basically means that your options are limited to channels 1, 6 and 11, so you can see it's not going to take long before you run out completely.

I'm tried a few channels, but it's cluttered and there's no way I'd get 4 channels away from the nearest other network.

The exasperating thing is that my current Airport Express-based system ought to be able to connect via the 'N' 5ghz frequency which would almost certainly eliminate the interference from neighbouring networks, but I just can't get them to - they always connect via the 2.4ghz 'G' frequency. I have a Time Capsule which broadcasts simultaneously on G and N and I can get my Mac to connect via N whilst my iPhone connects via G and they work fine together. If I could crack that then there'd be no need to shell out on another multi-room system, but there's certainly no point taking the risk and going for Sonos if it's susceptible to the same interference. It's just infuriating!

The only thing I can think of is to get a 1 zone wired Sonos system for the lounge as that would only cost £275 for a ZP90 and that's by far the priority, but that doesn't help me with the bedroom and kitchen, where I guess i'd have to go for ipod/dock or plugging-Mac-straight-in solutions. Or maybe my local friendly dealer would lend me a ZP120 to try out over a weekend to see if I suffer interference, although that's still risky.

I dont know...

 

[kinda]

It's a pity you're having the drop-outs. The Sonos is a good system when working correctly.

Might be worth a shot seeing if it's not something else causing the drop-outs to your wireless. Lots of devices use microwaves, and they can interfere with the wrieless.

Might not be your problem but worth considering.

 

[Dan Turner]

kinda:
It's a pity you're having the drop-outs. The Sonos is a good system when working correctly.

Might be worth a shot seeing if it's not something else causing the drop-outs to your wireless. Lots of devices use microwaves, and they can interfere with the wrieless.

Might not be your problem but worth considering.

Hi Kinda - Thanks. I'm actually using an Airport Express based system at the moment and have been driven to distraction with the drop-outs, so I have been contemplating moving to a Sonos system and was keen to understand whether it was similarly prone to wireless inteference, which apparently it is.

I really like the idea of a Sonos system, but can't risk forking out if it's going to be no more reliable than my AEs.

I've investigated everything in my power, cordless phone, microwave all bluetooth devices I can find. I've tried scanning for nearby networks and avoiding the same channels, tried a multitude of settings in the router, but all to no avail.

I have come up with one last ditch effort which I'm going to deal in my other thread 'airport express drop-outs/interference' as it seems more relevant there. Hopefully if I can nail this then it will help other people too as I know from reading the forums that I'm not the only one.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've suffered dropouts with some internet radio stations, and sometimes lost signal altogether. But I only find this with certain sations, so that's not the fault of the Sonos. The only other problems I'm aware of have been interference from certain mobile phones - but this affects all other wireless products too, so again, not a Sonos issue, more to do with the router.

 

[The_Lhc]

Dan Turner:the_lhc:Trouble is there's only so many channels to choose from and it's not enough even to be using a channel next to one that someone else is using because the channels overlap, you need to choose a channel further removed than that.
The amount of overlap between channels (there are 14 of them and each channel overlaps with up to 4 others at some frequency) basically means that your options are limited to channels 1, 6 and 11, so you can see it's not going to take long before you run out completely.

I'm tried a few channels, but it's cluttered and there's no way I'd get 4 channels away from the nearest other network.

Yeah the reality is there's only channels 1, 6 and 11 that can really be used, so if someone else is already using them you're stuffed. Like I said, this is something that will be suffered by any wireless system though.

The exasperating thing is that my current Airport Express-based system ought to be able to connect via the 'N' 5ghz frequency which would almost certainly eliminate the interference from neighbouring networks, but I just can't get them to - they always connect via the 2.4ghz 'G' frequency. I have a Time Capsule which broadcasts simultaneously on G and N and I can get my Mac to connect via N whilst my iPhone connects via G and they work fine together. If I could crack that then there'd be no need to shell out on another multi-room system, but there's certainly no point taking the risk and going for Sonos if it's susceptible to the same interference. It's just infuriating!

I can imagine.

The only thing I can think of is to get a 1 zone wired Sonos system for the lounge as that would only cost £275 for a ZP90 and that's by far the priority, but that doesn't help me with the bedroom and kitchen, where I guess i'd have to go for ipod/dock or plugging-Mac-straight-in solutions. Or maybe my local friendly dealer would lend me a ZP120 to try out over a weekend to see if I suffer interference, although that's still risky.

The only other thing you could do is wire the two ZPs together but that then kind of defeats the point of it being wireless. It is only a single ethernet cable though and if you can get a flat one might be easier to hide than most other cables.

 

[Anonymous]

I have experienced drop outs, But not until i added a s5, My house is an old cottage with walls 400mm thick so i was wary wether to go for sonos, After lots of forum help i decided to go for it, The walls have not caused problems, i set each up in sight then moved them to where i wnted them, The s5 i have put in kitchen which has a direct line from my zp90, Whilst i was working in kitchen couple weekends ago it kept dropping out or changing track on lastfm and was so annoying,

I have changed channels it got better, i now have moved my cordless phonebase further away and now i have had it on all day without a problem, Next will to change phone as they are DECT which can cause interference,Although i believe it may happen again i know it not the sosns it is busy times on internet radio that causes this(so been told by techy mates)

Sonos i believe is great

 

[Anonymous]

I had a AE which I got all sorts of dropouts all the time so I got a SONOS. I still have dropouts but only when using the micowave but since I'm renting there's litle I can do. TBH. A wired system seems your best route. Sonos is a bit silly that you can't turn off the wireless but hey everything else works. If its only multiroom audio you need there's other solutions you could get but I love my Sonos. I'm going to get an S% soon for upstairs.

 

[The_Lhc]

BilboBaggins:TBH. A wired system seems your best route.

Yes, I'd say so in this case, shame but if you're surrounded by other wireless networks there's only so much you can do.

Sonos is a bit silly that you can't turn off the wireless but hey everything else works. If its only multiroom audio you need there's other solutions you could get but I love my Sonos. I'm going to get an S% soon for upstairs.

None of the other solutions are as good though, I'm looking at getting an S5 for the kitchen.

 

[Dan Turner]

Yeah, I think you guys are right, and that would be fine in the lounge (obviously the priority) because the router is there and I could easily and unobtrusively run the ethernet cable round the skirting board, but short of taking up all the carpets and floorboards, there's no way I'm going to be able to run cables to the bedroom or kitchen. I spoke to my dealer yesterday and he offered to lend me his Sonos gear to see how I get along.

What I think I'm going to do is set-up a single wired zone (ZP90) in the lounge initially which gives me the quality and reliability, without the inconvenience of having to plug my Mac straight in to my HiFi. Initially I'll just have to settle for plugging my Mac or an ipod in in the bedroom and kitchen to listen to music in those rooms (or just whack it up in the lounge!) and then I'll look at borrowing another ZP90 or a ZP120 from my dealer at some point down the road and see how I get along with that in the bedroom/kitchen over a weekend.

Is streaming to a ZP90 and then connecting to a DAC (my SuperNait) going to suffer any loss of quality compared with plugging my Mac in directly? I'm using Apple lossless files predominantly.

 

[The_Lhc]

Dan Turner: Yeah, I think you guys are right, and that would be fine in the lounge (obviously the priority) because the router is there and I could easily and unobtrusively run the ethernet cable round the skirting board

It would be more than "fine", it's a requirement. One Zoneplayer (or zonebridge) MUST be wired to your router.

but short of taking up all the carpets and floorboards, there's no way I'm going to be able to run cables to the bedroom or kitchen. I spoke to my dealer yesterday and he offered to lend me his Sonos gear to see how I get along.

Splendid chap!

Is streaming to a ZP90 and then connecting to a DAC (my SuperNait) going to suffer any loss of quality compared with plugging my Mac in directly? I'm using Apple lossless files predominantly.

This is one of "those" questions. I presume you've been using a digital out on the Mac? So the DAC in use is the same in either case. If so then common sense would suggest there'll be no difference. The transfer of the data across the network to the ZP90 should not make any difference and neither should the transmission from there to the DAC, unless you're using a different cable and you believe that matters (I'm making no judgments here). So I'll stick my head on the block and say it'll sound the same.

 

[Dan Turner]

the_lhc:
Dan Turner: Yeah, I think you guys are right, and that would be fine in the lounge (obviously the priority) because the router is there and I could easily and unobtrusively run the ethernet cable round the skirting board

It would be more than "fine", it's a requirement. One Zoneplayer (or zonebridge) MUST be wired to your router.

but short of taking up all the carpets and floorboards, there's no way I'm going to be able to run cables to the bedroom or kitchen. I spoke to my dealer yesterday and he offered to lend me his Sonos gear to see how I get along.

Splendid chap!

Is streaming to a ZP90 and then connecting to a DAC (my SuperNait) going to suffer any loss of quality compared with plugging my Mac in directly? I'm using Apple lossless files predominantly.

This is one of "those" questions. I presume you've been using a digital out on the Mac? So the DAC in use is the same in either case. If so then common sense would suggest there'll be no difference. The transfer of the data across the network to the ZP90 should not make any difference and neither should the transmission from there to the DAC, unless you're using a different cable and you believe that matters (I'm making no judgments here). So I'll stick my head on the block and say it'll sound the same.

Thanks the_lhc, i guess all I was thinking in terms of ethernetting the ZP90 in the lounge is that if the cable would be obtrusive I would have to get a zonebridge to connect to the router and then wireless to the ZP90 - which would kind of defeat the point because if nothing else I want reliability in my main system.

My dealer is a pretty good one, and I've borrowed several prospective purchases over the years to try them at home. But I guess he realises it's only going to help his chances of a sale and he's got nothing to lose as he takes a card payment and refunds when the kit is safely returned. You'd think all dealers would do the same.

I agree that logically ZP90 into SuperNait ought to be identical to Mac into SuperNait as it would be digital in both cases. Although I'd probably have to use different cables as my current one is a Chord Optichord with a 3.5mm jack-type plug on one end, and I think the ZP90 only has the 'standard' toslink socket on it.

Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

Just a thought - have you thought about Ethernet over Power adapters (Homeplugs)? I've got lousy Sonos performance - in fact the whole experience has been crap. I can't get more than about 90 seconds playback and my walls are all stud/plasterboard - I've had a few blissful seconds where it all works but otherwise...

I only wanted a S5 in the bedroom but I've no Cat5 on the shelf where it is (there is on the other side of the bedroom), but I get good reports from mates about Ethernet over power adapters. I can re-use them, and it's worth a stab before I send the sonos gear back.

 

[The_Lhc]

You'd be better off saving your money and investigating what the problem is. It's almost certainly wireless interference, possibly from your own wireless router, you have to ensure that the two systems are on different wireless channels, ideally 1 and 11. Alternatively it could be neighbours wireless but the same applies, find out what's interfering and fix it. You could try just changing the sonos wireless channel to see If you find one that works better. You should also contact sonos support, they're very good and will be able to sort you out.