Sonic qualities attributed to equipment racks

[admin_exported]

Let me start off by saying WHF learned me a lot about hifi, and proven my assumptions wrong more than once.

That said, looking at reviews of equipment racks I'm baffled to see all kinds of sonic qualities being attributed to racks. I'm not talking about speaker stands here, but racks for players and amps. Example taken from the review of the WHF award winning Hifi Racks Podium:

"Once placed on the Podium, Cyrus’s Award-winning CD 8 SE CD player is fed the Ramsey Lewis Trio’s energetic Wade In The Water.
It serves up a muscular sound that times well, and is able to handle production dynamics and subtleties with ease.
This is a fast-paced rack that will give your kit a full sound along with a wide soundstage. Detailing here is also more than capable, and right on the nose for the money.
Tonally, the Podium doesn’t disappoint the listener either, with a propulsive, firm bass, smooth and fluid midrange and well-integrated treble."

Apparently, placing a Cyrus cd player in the rack somehow causes the signal that the player sends out to improve. How is that possible? The only thing I can think of is that this topend cd player vibrates and that this vibration has an appreciable effect on the signal that the cd player sends out (seems unlikely). Even if the rack could improve the signal by countering vibration, it sounds unlikely that it's possible to distinguish detailed sonic qualities from a rack, the way it's done in the review mentioned above.

Another question pops to mind: Does the equipment rack only exhibit these sound enhancing qualities with components that have any chance of inducing vibration (like cd players) or does the rack also improve the sound of components that have no moving parts (amp, DAC)? If so how?

I'm eager to learn something new once more.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Vibration can affect electronic circuitry as much as it does mechanical components. That's why some manufacturers go to great lengths to decouple circuitry from outside vibration, both airborne and carried through floors, racks, etc...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your reply Andrew. I'm a bit sceptical though. Are you saying that it's conceivable that said Cyrus deck in any old rack (or dare I say it: on a plain old bookshelf) vibrates so badly that it affects the signal appreciably?

(Edit: some typo's)

 

[idc]

I bought a Target rack with a metal fame and wooden shelves. I bought it because I was feeling flush and I wanted a nice piece of furniture to put my kit on. Before my CD, amp, Cassette deck had been piled ontop of each other. I did not kown about the potential for a change in sound, but there was. Clarity and bass depth improved. I thougth at the time I had wired up my system incorrectly before. But it was the rack.

The reasons are vibration, particularly for CDPs and turntables, potential EMI between equipment close together and better ventilation. My amp further benefited from wooden blocks placed under it to further aid ventilation.

Different racks, particularly different shelves (wood/glass) will have different isolation properties. So, it seems reasonable, particularly if your are a professional reviewer who listens to loads of music in the same environment, so only the rack chamges, that there will be a difference.

I personally think that the language used when reviewing products in general, not just racks tends to suggest a bigger difference than say you or I would initially find.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah yes, EMI, didn't think of that.

I think your statement on the language used in reviews is spot on here. It's not that I think a rack makes absolutely no difference at all, it's more that the very detailed descriptions of the sonic properties of racks in some reviews, like the Podium one, seem almost unbelievable.

Oh and thanks for your experience, I'll take equipment racks more seriously because of it (eventhough I'm still a bit sceptical about the large improvements that some reviews attribute to them).

 

[JoelSim]

KevinOK:

Ah yes, EMI, didn't think of that.

I think your statement on the language used in reviews is spot on here. It's not that I think a rack makes absolutely no difference at all, it's more that the very detailed descriptions of the sonic properties of racks in some reviews, like the Podium one, seem almost unbelievable.

Oh and thanks for your experience, I'll take equipment racks more seriously because of it (eventhough I'm still a bit sceptical about the large improvements that some reviews attribute to them).

Believe. When I bought my first hifiracks rack I put on a CD that I'd had for 20 years and sat open-mouthed listening to it as it was so much clearer, the bassline was much more prominent, more detail etc etc

Just ordered another (Podium this time) as it happens as I didn't want to lose what I'd gained.

 

[Anonymous]

yes and one of the best is the cheapest and comes from ikea so you dont have to spend a fortune

 

[Clare Newsome]

If you're referring to the fabled Ikea 'Lack', then it's not built as it once was - as you dismissively acknowledged in this recent thread.

 

[Anonymous]

Ha, coincidence has it that my equipment is on an Ikea Expedit. I think it's the same crappy material as the Lack. The individual boards weigh next to nothing.

Your replies have certainly rid me of some of my initial scepticism. In a rainy weekend I might put my equipment on the floor and see if makes any noticable difference to the sound (floor is thick oak boards).

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:If you're referring to the fabled Ikea 'Lack', then it's not built as it once was - as you dismissively acknowledged in this recent thread.

not dismissively at all clare nor acknowledged it just seemed a pointless argument as i clearly indicated

in fact my old lack and newer corras are both built of the lightweight material the other poster said was not good and its the lightweight material that apparently makes the lack and its successor the corras so good

have your experts tested the corras and lack table as equipment stands

might be a good idea then noone would dismiss them at all

 

[idc]

Kevin, you now sound one of us, putting your kit on the floor to see if it sounds better! Bear in mind that your floor needs to be level or else there will be vibration caused by micro rocking and dont pile the components one on top of another.

The original Lacks tables were modified by cutting the legs and fitting spikes to them. Apparently the legs now will not cut cleanly and just come apart.

 

[Clare Newsome]

one off:

Clare Newsome:If you're referring to the fabled Ikea 'Lack', then it's not built as it once was - as you dismissively acknowledged in this recent thread.

not dismissively at all clare nor acknowledged it just seemed a pointless argument as i clearly indicated

in
fact my old lack and newer corras are both built of the lightweight
material the other poster said was not good and its the lightweight
material that apparently makes the lack and its successor the corras so
good

have your experts tested the corras and lack table as equipment stands

might be a good idea then noone would dismiss them at all

Back in the day we did in a reader feature (rather than formal review), but not recently - could/should be worth another look, especially if the names/materials have changed.

 

[Anonymous]

one off:
Clare Newsome:If you're referring to the fabled Ikea 'Lack', then it's not built as it once was - as you dismissively acknowledged in this recent thread.

not dismissively at all clare nor acknowledged it just seemed a pointless argument as i clearly indicated

in fact my old lack and newer corras are both built of the lightweight material the other poster said was not good and its the lightweight material that apparently makes the lack and its successor the corras so good

have your experts tested the corras and lack table as equipment stands

might be a good idea then noone would dismiss them at all

Wait. You're saying I might have the best possible equipment rack already? JoelSim, want to trade your new Podium for my Expedit? It has the transparant plastic boxes too, for extra bass weight and a wider soundstage.

 

[JoelSim]

KevinOK:one off:

Clare Newsome:If you're referring to the fabled Ikea 'Lack', then it's not built as it once was - as you dismissively acknowledged in this recent thread.

not dismissively at all clare nor acknowledged it just seemed a pointless argument as i clearly indicated

in fact my old lack and newer corras are both built of the lightweight material the other poster said was not good and its the lightweight material that apparently makes the lack and its successor the corras so good

have your experts tested the corras and lack table as equipment stands

might be a good idea then noone would dismiss them at all

Wait. You're saying I might have the best possible equipment rack already? JoelSim, want to trade your new Podium for my Expedit? It has the transparant plastic boxes too, for extra bass weight and a wider soundstage.

Funnily enough...

 

[Gerrardasnails]

JoelSim:KevinOK:

Ah yes, EMI, didn't think of that.

I think your statement on the language used in reviews is spot on here. It's not that I think a rack makes absolutely no difference at all, it's more that the very detailed descriptions of the sonic properties of racks in some reviews, like the Podium one, seem almost unbelievable.

Oh and thanks for your experience, I'll take equipment racks more seriously because of it (eventhough I'm still a bit sceptical about the large improvements that some reviews attribute to them).

Believe. When I bought my first hifiracks rack I put on a CD that I'd had for 20 years and sat open-mouthed listening to it as it was so much clearer, the bassline was much more prominent, more detail etc etc

Just ordered another (Podium this time) as it happens as I didn't want to lose what I'd gained.

I agree with Joel on this. I used to have an Atacama rack which was too flimsy for my lightweight (at the time) equipment. I heard about hifiracks from Mr Sim and went for a solid walnut AV unit (made to my exact measurements). It is so solid and heavy, I doubt there are any vibrations. I also have granite chopping boards for my equipment to sit on. These look good, keep the temperature down from the boxes and were only cheap from Tesco.

 

[JoelSim]

Gerrardasnails:JoelSim:KevinOK:

Ah yes, EMI, didn't think of that.

I think your statement on the language used in reviews is spot on here. It's not that I think a rack makes absolutely no difference at all, it's more that the very detailed descriptions of the sonic properties of racks in some reviews, like the Podium one, seem almost unbelievable.

Oh and thanks for your experience, I'll take equipment racks more seriously because of it (eventhough I'm still a bit sceptical about the large improvements that some reviews attribute to them).

Believe. When I bought my first hifiracks rack I put on a CD that I'd had for 20 years and sat open-mouthed listening to it as it was so much clearer, the bassline was much more prominent, more detail etc etc

Just ordered another (Podium this time) as it happens as I didn't want to lose what I'd gained.

I agree with Joel on this. I used to have an Atacama rack which was too flimsy for my lightweight (at the time) equipment. I heard about hifiracks from Mr Sim and went for a solid walnut AV unit (made to my exact measurements). It is so solid and heavy, I doubt there are any vibrations. I also have granite chopping boards for my equipment to sit on. These look good, keep the temperature down from the boxes and were only cheap from Tesco.

They are also very useful when cooking a chilli and listening to music

 

[Anonymous]

well, I'll be honest ... my cdp/system sounds the same when placed on the floor or when placed on the soundstyle rack

perhaps, my cdp is a cheap one or I bought the wrong rack? ... but what the heck, only paid £70 for the rack 2nd hand and it looks nice

 

[a91gti]

Your floor, solid as it may be, is going to be vibrating at any reasonable volume.

Another way to reduce the effect of vibration on kit is to put blobs of Blutack on top of any electrolytic capacitors in it.

 

[Anonymous]

dim_span:

well, I'll be honest ... my cdp/system sounds the same when placed on the floor or when placed on the soundstyle rack

perhaps, my cdp is a cheap one or I bought the wrong rack? ... but what the heck, only paid £70 for the rack 2nd hand and it looks nice

Or: both your rack and your floor are excellent! Or your CDP is of the non vibrating type. Or...

I'll admit I was curious, so I tried it too. I'm afraid it did nothing, no difference between my lightweight Ikea Expedit and my heavy oak floorboards.

There's tons of possible explanations, ranging from my ability to hear, to the hypothesis that minimal vibration does not cause a discernable difference to the signal in normal home listening situations.

I don't have the answer, but I'm happy I won't have to invest in an expensive rack. That said if anyone does feel there's an improvement to SQ (real or not), then to you it's obviously worth it, so more power to you!

 

[idc]

KevinOK:.......There's tons of possible explanations, ranging from my ability to hear, to the hypothesis that minimal vibration does not cause a discernable difference to the signal in normal home listening situations.

I don't have the answer, but I'm happy I won't have to invest in an expensive rack. That said if anyone does feel there's an improvement to SQ (real or not), then to you it's obviously worth it, so more power to you!

KevinOK, you have tried an Ikea table and the floor and from that you have reached the conclusion that it is not worth getting an expensive rack. Can I repectfully suggest that you try an expensive rack before concluding it is not worthwhile!

 

[Anonymous]

idc:

KevinOK, you have tried an Ikea table and the floor and from that you have reached the conclusion that it is not worth getting an expensive rack. Can I repectfully suggest that you try an expensive rack before concluding it is not worthwhile!

You're correct that I can't be sure a rack won't make a difference, since I haven't tested one.

But that doesn't make my test, or my conclusion, invalid. The two surfaces I tried couldn't be more different. Given that people apparently hear sonic differences between different racks and are able to describe these differences with great detail, it's reasonable to assume that if I could, I would have at least noticed a difference as well. I can't, so a rack is most likely not worth an investment to me.

One thing that's important though, I'm not using a cdp but an EMU-0404 soundcard as a source, might be one of many reasons why it doesn't make a difference to my situation.

 

[JoelSim]

All I can say is that you are missing out. Big time.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Joel and IDC. I appreciate your efforts to convert me. I've certainly become less sceptical, if not an all out believer in everything rack reviews try to tell me. But at the moment I can think of lots of things that can be upgraded first that imho would make more difference (it's a long and expensive list), before considering a rack again. One day..

 

[Anonymous]

KevinOK:. I've certainly become less sceptical, if not an all out believer in everything rack reviews try to tell me. ..

Without sounding like an old fart, the history to this can make it a little clearer as to why this 'industry' of racks has evolved.

In the good old days of separates, record decks and separate amps , many people placed their kit with the deck say, on the amp and the book shelf speakers on hmmm book shelves.

The move from the book shelf to the speaker stand improved and controlled things.

The close proximity of the amp to the record deck also introduces 'coupling' between the amp and deck, ( mainly attributed to the EM field of the transformer and the cartridge)

I had a shelving with what I thought was a reasonable distance between the amp and deck, but when needing to dismantle the set up I played it with the amp further away from the record deck and there was a noticeable improvement, much to my amazement.

The amp then stayed at a much lower height and further away.

This can then be extrapolated to a lesser degree for other sources such as CD players with suffer from microphony, ( the effect of vibration upon electronic components).

Having said all this most of the benefits can be achieved by separation and mounts that isolate the relevant equipment.

Multiple shelves in racks are a convenient solution ( and also a compromise), if done well, but equipment on separate supports will always be the optimum solution.

Be aware that the 'industry' is about self perpetuation; other wise it would die, so buy with your ears and in a lot of cases for stands that are made well, with your eyes!!

Matt

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